23 KTM 300SX

studworx wrote:

Completely useless math But With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp...

Completely useless math

But

With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp, the 300SX would be pushing around 52.64hp. That’s impressive!

I think all the 250SX they have done with a 300SX kit have been at that exact number. But with the mapping and Fi the 300SX has, it’s going to be much more usable and put it to the ground a lot better.

Now what is crazy is the 2012-16 250SX’s had 4 more hp than the YZ. Meaning the 300sx is only 2.5hp clear of that gen 250. Shows how much “usable” power matters vs raw power. Because nobody raved about those. They were nuts!

Ob917 wrote:

Vital weighed the bike, 220lbs is impressive and you can feel the lack of mass when you ride these bikes.

studworx wrote:

Completely useless math But With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp...

Completely useless math

But

With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp, the 300SX would be pushing around 52.64hp. That’s impressive!

I think all the 250SX they have done with a 300SX kit have been at that exact number. But with the mapping and Fi the 300SX has, it’s going to be much more usable and put it to the ground a lot better.

Now what is crazy is the 2012-16 250SX’s had 4 more hp than the YZ. Meaning the 300sx is only 2.5hp clear of that gen 250. Shows how much “usable” power matters vs raw power. Because nobody raved about those. They were nuts!

langhammx wrote:

KTM claims 57+HP on the ‘23 SX300. FMF fatty with the 2.1 Ti silencer is good for an extra 3HP. Every Dyno being different, but believe...

KTM claims 57+HP on the ‘23 SX300. FMF fatty with the 2.1 Ti silencer is good for an extra 3HP.
Every Dyno being different, but believe what you will.

studworx wrote:

Completely useless math But With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp...

Completely useless math

But

With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp, the 300SX would be pushing around 52.64hp. That’s impressive!

I think all the 250SX they have done with a 300SX kit have been at that exact number. But with the mapping and Fi the 300SX has, it’s going to be much more usable and put it to the ground a lot better.

Now what is crazy is the 2012-16 250SX’s had 4 more hp than the YZ. Meaning the 300sx is only 2.5hp clear of that gen 250. Shows how much “usable” power matters vs raw power. Because nobody raved about those. They were nuts!

langhammx wrote:

KTM claims 57+HP on the ‘23 SX300. FMF fatty with the 2.1 Ti silencer is good for an extra 3HP. Every Dyno being different, but believe...

KTM claims 57+HP on the ‘23 SX300. FMF fatty with the 2.1 Ti silencer is good for an extra 3HP.
Every Dyno being different, but believe what you will.

studworx wrote:

Completely useless math But With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp...

Completely useless math

But

With the Racetech dyno numbers, the difference is 6.56hp between the YZ250 and 300SX. Using MXA’s most recent dyno number of 46.08hp, the 300SX would be pushing around 52.64hp. That’s impressive!

I think all the 250SX they have done with a 300SX kit have been at that exact number. But with the mapping and Fi the 300SX has, it’s going to be much more usable and put it to the ground a lot better.

Now what is crazy is the 2012-16 250SX’s had 4 more hp than the YZ. Meaning the 300sx is only 2.5hp clear of that gen 250. Shows how much “usable” power matters vs raw power. Because nobody raved about those. They were nuts!

langhammx wrote:

KTM claims 57+HP on the ‘23 SX300. FMF fatty with the 2.1 Ti silencer is good for an extra 3HP. Every Dyno being different, but believe...

KTM claims 57+HP on the ‘23 SX300. FMF fatty with the 2.1 Ti silencer is good for an extra 3HP.
Every Dyno being different, but believe what you will.

studworx wrote:

I’ve seen the claim but at 6.56 more than a YZ it’s not near 57. The YZ has 46HP stock, not 51. The fastest production 250...

I’ve seen the claim but at 6.56 more than a YZ it’s not near 57. The YZ has 46HP stock, not 51. The fastest production 250 2 stroke ever was the 13-16 250SX at 50.

All dynos are different, which is why you look at the difference between bikes on same dyno. That 6hp gap is a 6hp gap regardless of dyno. Just as the test states. Gap is what matters

Bruce372 wrote:

So the fmf pipe is making an extra 3hp over stock? That is crazy.

langhammx wrote:

Ok. I’m well aware of different dyno #’s. I’m not going to agree or disagree with KTM’s dyno report, but I’d think they’d be smart enough...

Ok.
I’m well aware of different dyno #’s. I’m not going to agree or disagree with KTM’s dyno report, but I’d think they’d be smart enough to not exaggerate by that much.
Have you ridden the ‘23 SX300 ?

Bruce372 wrote:

So the fmf pipe is making an extra 3hp over stock? That is crazy.

langhammx wrote:

Yes sir. They had this bike for a very long time to develop this pipe/ silencer. I’ve seen the dyno sheet, but I’m sorry I can’t...

Yes sir. They had this bike for a very long time to develop this pipe/ silencer. I’ve seen the dyno sheet, but I’m sorry I can’t post that here.

Bruce372 wrote:

The 300 actually revs higher than yz250, and people still keep saying over bored two strokes won't make top end! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/11/23/578155/s1200_Screenshot_20221123_163202_Chrome.jpg[/img]

The 300 actually revs higher than yz250, and people still keep saying over bored two strokes won't make top end!

langhammx wrote:

Ok. I’m well aware of different dyno #’s. I’m not going to agree or disagree with KTM’s dyno report, but I’d think they’d be smart enough...

Ok.
I’m well aware of different dyno #’s. I’m not going to agree or disagree with KTM’s dyno report, but I’d think they’d be smart enough to not exaggerate by that much.
Have you ridden the ‘23 SX300 ?

studworx wrote:

Yes today at our local sand track. Me and my buddy did a bike swap. Can’t comment on it really. No sand tire it vs my...

Yes today at our local sand track. Me and my buddy did a bike swap. Can’t comment on it really. No sand tire it vs my 250sx with sand tire it felt smooth. Not crazy at all, very manageable. But 3 laps isn’t gonna say anything I wouldn’t even consider it riding the thing. It’s a 3rd and 4th gear bike. Great suspension and ergos. Maybe if I ride it again Saturday I’ll have more of an opinion, but I’ve got a 23 TC250 on order so I’ll break that in at rt 63 or ram jam when I get it. Sat-sun last open ride days here before end of season.

And then on the 57hp thing, it has less peak than the 350 and the 350 doesn’t have 57hp. So I mean… they can claim whatever but 6hp over a YZ isn’t 57 and less peak than a 350 also isn’t 57. And 9.52hp less than the 450SXF is also not 57hp…

The bike is 50-52 hp in reality. Absolute ripper. 57hp is a silly number to throw out. You don’t gain 10 hp with fi and a 300 kit.

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

I would love anyone to post a press release, dyno sheet, email, anything that states KTM claimed a hp rating. I hear, "KTM said", but I...

I would love anyone to post a press release, dyno sheet, email, anything that states KTM claimed a hp rating. I hear, "KTM said", but I can't find an official statement.

HP ratings are subjective to the dyno, elevation, fuel, etc..the best way to use a dyno is to measured improvements made off a baseline dyno run, make mods, then compare post mod dyno runs and see what you gained and what you didn't.

Bruce372 wrote:

The 300 actually revs higher than yz250, and people still keep saying over bored two strokes won't make top end! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/11/23/578155/s1200_Screenshot_20221123_163202_Chrome.jpg[/img]

The 300 actually revs higher than yz250, and people still keep saying over bored two strokes won't make top end!

swordfish wrote:

It’s a feeling perception. The 300’s build power and torque early and don’t have the mid to high hit like a 250 feels. My 300 with...

It’s a feeling perception. The 300’s build power and torque early and don’t have the mid to high hit like a 250 feels. My 300 with a Scalvini pipe rips mid to top.

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

Thx!

Im assuming thats crank hp, rear wheel is probably a 5%+ loss, more like rear wheel is around 52+.

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

Thx!

Im assuming thats crank hp, rear wheel is probably a 5%+ loss, more like rear wheel is around 52+.

studworx wrote:

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right. I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never...

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right.

I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never seen more than 50. A 15 with a 300 kit and full PC spec motor still was under 55 (54.8), which was the highest I’ve ever seen from one. A 10hp increase over the last gen 250SX (which was a dyno queen) with fi and a 300 kit alone is just not possible. A 300 kit is usually worth around 2HP at peak. Not 10.

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

Thx!

Im assuming thats crank hp, rear wheel is probably a 5%+ loss, more like rear wheel is around 52+.

studworx wrote:

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right. I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never...

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right.

I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never seen more than 50. A 15 with a 300 kit and full PC spec motor still was under 55 (54.8), which was the highest I’ve ever seen from one. A 10hp increase over the last gen 250SX (which was a dyno queen) with fi and a 300 kit alone is just not possible. A 300 kit is usually worth around 2HP at peak. Not 10.

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

Thx!

Im assuming thats crank hp, rear wheel is probably a 5%+ loss, more like rear wheel is around 52+.

studworx wrote:

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right. I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never...

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right.

I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never seen more than 50. A 15 with a 300 kit and full PC spec motor still was under 55 (54.8), which was the highest I’ve ever seen from one. A 10hp increase over the last gen 250SX (which was a dyno queen) with fi and a 300 kit alone is just not possible. A 300 kit is usually worth around 2HP at peak. Not 10.

swordfish wrote:

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into...

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into a savage.

swordfish wrote:

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into...

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into a savage.

studworx wrote:

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right. I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never...

52 is what I was predicting based off Vital’s dyno number differentials. So that seems right.

I’ve had every 250SX since 13 on the dyno, never seen more than 50. A 15 with a 300 kit and full PC spec motor still was under 55 (54.8), which was the highest I’ve ever seen from one. A 10hp increase over the last gen 250SX (which was a dyno queen) with fi and a 300 kit alone is just not possible. A 300 kit is usually worth around 2HP at peak. Not 10.

swordfish wrote:

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into...

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into a savage.

JBoneMotorworks wrote:

So the bolt ons at this point are really the only option for doing some engine tuning due to the fact that the stocker ECU is...

So the bolt ons at this point are really the only option for doing some engine tuning due to the fact that the stocker ECU is locked and you can't get deep into the architecture of the maps to change anything.

The engine tuning related to port/head/case mods etc is something I would love to dive into but there is no way to compensate and change values of fuel delivery (like with a carb re-jet), to the ECU so if you cut the head to bump up compression it will burn better, more efficiently, but the ECU will not be able to monitor changes made that effect the volumetric efficiency and push more fuel when you need it. The results can be catastrophic engine damage. So, if you improve the volumetric efficiency, the ECU won't know this and will do nothing to send more fuel when it should.

Regarding the fuel/oil mix if the manual (in this case of the 250/300sx), calls for 60/1 and 95 octane this is what should be run. Again, the ECU is not going to be able to monitor the fuel/oil mix and "know" that it is a richer or leaner fuel mix. It can monitor AF, air temp, engine temp etc.

I know its a highly debated topic, but since this is worthy of discussion, it should be talked about, here is a scenario.

"I'm just gonna run 40/1 bc thats in all my other bikes, they run great on it, I don't see the cause for concern". Although the 40/1 is a fine mix for carb bikes but since the 23' are ECU/TBI, if your bike calls for 60/1 and you run 40/1 you just leaned out the AF ratio and your bike will run hot and potentially seize bc it's lean.
Not fuel/oil lean, Air to Fuel lean. I can almost guarantee you will have engine damage with a drastic change like that.


My 23' 125sx calls for 98 oct, 40/1, it's going to the dyno next week in complete stock form for some initial data.
On the spot after a few runs, Im installing an FMF pipe set, (currently the only pipe you can get, the pipe looks very different from stock, but the silencer looks and seems to be a copy of the stock silencer), then doing a few runs, then installing a VForce and then a few runs so I will have the same bike on the same dyno with bone stock pulls, pipe set pulls, then reed system pulls with the pipe, running 40/1, T2.

Also, these manuals and specs are EU, so there is a ROZ/RON conversion..look it up but a EU ROZ of 98oct is like 95oct US.

These SX models also spec a JASO FD rating for the premix oil. Not all premix oils are JASO rated, I wanted desperately to run some castor bean oil in this engine bc of the film strength it offers the engine in protection, and I love the smell lol. I can't find a JASO rated bean oil so Im going to run the T2, (JASO certified oil), and see how it goes.

If you google the JASO rating it is quite interesting on why these oils get the endorsement and what is involved. Kinda techie but good info to know.

I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but I can read lol...for sure look at the manuals and stick to what works and is proven.

swordfish wrote:

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into...

Let’s see what happens with a little tuning and some bolt ons. I can tell you that a good tune turns a stock TPi bike into a savage.

langhammx wrote:

I had a ‘19 TPI 300 with a Slavens timed Get ignition, S3 head with an FMF system and it was a nice improvement over stock...

I had a ‘19 TPI 300 with a Slavens timed Get ignition, S3 head with an FMF system and it was a nice improvement over stock. But it was nowhere near the torque that my ‘22 300’s have in stock form.

I can only imagine what the ‘23 TBI will be like, once the motor builders get ahold of one and turn it into a fire breather.