Posts
1323
Joined
1/30/2020
Location
UT
US
Edited Date/Time
6/29/2021 9:20pm
Had this thing sitting in the garage for a week and never got to finishing up getting everything greased. Finished the linkage and pivot today and FINALLY got to twist the throttle in anger @ OCA in Ogden.
Only got in 4x 15min motos as it was hot af and I got so excited about riding that I barely hydrated before loading up, so I got gassed very quickly.
Before I get into the bike, let me talk about my biggest gripe about buying the bike… the service manual. I’m not sure if the Japanese guy who wrote it was drunk or if it was bring your blind dog to work day but there’s some, IMO, critical torque specs missing out of the list. So far that I’ve discovered: linkage, swingarm pivot and footpeg mounts.
Set the mounts to 22lbs/top and 18lbs bottom. Did the linkage at 35lbs and shock mount at 32lbs. Pivot at 65lbs.
And speaking of their torque setting list, who tf is the translator? Gd, call it a bar mount/top triple clamp/lower triple clamp/front axle/rear axle, etc.
Enough whining for what was a good day, on to the bike:
CHASSIS
Does nothing spectacular, does everything pretty damn good. Whoever did up the new gen frame needs to head their R&D if they aren’t already. So balanced. Slightly on the stiff side but hardly worth mentioning. For me, the perfect cockpit triangle. Now I did add the Pro Pegs and STC lower Honda mounts, but rider to control room is great. It’s a spacious cockpit that you can move around in and still get up and tight with.
Front end has a lot of bite but the bike will still reward getting towards the rear and calling the thunder out of a rut or soft turn. You don’t have to get up on the seat… it will turn.
SUSPENSION
How do I describe something that works so well but is setup absolutely garbage from the MFG? I’m a big guy (6’6”, 225lbs dry) so obviously it’s under sprung but the balance is a damn calamity. The forks are insanely soft up top and get into what feels like a pretty stiff mid stroke. Definitely too stiff for mx, especially for the springs they come with. Now couple that over soft front with a stiff rear end. It feels like the rear spring is overpowering the front and it was causing the bike the get a bit weird on 3rd gear wide open straights/rollers and when transitioning body position into corners. Taking some low and high speed helped a little but I gotta be honest, it needs to be set up for me. On that note, I slapped the front end down pretty good into a roller and she didn’t bottom out. Good ol’ 49mm Showas.
ENGINE
If there is one aspect about this bike that outshines the balance and feel of the cockpit and chassis, it’s the power delivery.
Now interesting note… on first ride I forgot the map settings were on 3 and I didn’t have the TC on. This thing was a damn handful. I can’t really put into words how hard this thing would rocket out of a rut or snap through the power range. Map 3 no TC is an absolute animal. Once I realized what was going on and that 450s are supposed to be tamer than this, I put it on map 2 TC3. Didn’t care for TC 3. In deep soft sand corners, it would kick in and cause the bike to push out then snap back into the line. Was just a very weird feeling. Pulled in after moto 2 and put it on map 2 TC 2. Butter. 2nd gear pulled out of any spot in a corner, revved out with ZERO dips or spikes in power. Just hooked then pulled, and pulled. Due to how exhausted I was getting by moto 3 I started keeping it 3rd the whole time. Even if it sounded suspiciously low in rpm, it would still pick up and just go with one the smoothest power curves ever. Think KTM but with slightly faster pickup. Didn’t ride map 1 because I was absolutely wiped out after moto 4 and hung it up. I want to give map 3 another chance w/ tc on, but map 2 is deceptively smooth. I think map 1 and 2 with/without tc are going to be the ticket for this bike.
CONTROLS
This will be short and sweet but for me, easily the best cockpit on any bike. Throttle is very smooth, nothing special but good feel and response. The clutch… ooooooof. Some will chastise me for saying this but this thing shits all over KTMs Brembo in terms of modularity and contact feel/pull. It’s similar to a Kawi, but a slightly smoother “more predictable” feel through the range of movement. When I tried the Kawi, the clutch initially felt great but would feel suddenly stiffer just before the point of engagement. The Honda was consistent the whole time. Think the smoothest 125 cable clutch you’ve ever felt in your life. I’ve always been a two finger clutch guy, I’m now a one finger clutch guy. Yes, it’s that smooth and light.
Front brake is touchy, but not too touchy. You immediately feel it in action from the slightest pull but it’s very predictable. Barely pull, barely brake. Grab it, lock the wheel. That new caliper is amazing.
I was breaking in some fresh Tech 5s as well so it’s hard to give feedback on shifter feel being that I never raised up the shifter enough to get under it properly. But it goes into gear with authority, loves the shift fast off or on a load and is a bitch of a bitch to get into neutral. I like.
So aside from me thinking map 3 was mellow and thinking I was in over my head, today was a solid day. Just sucks the wind died down before we made it to OCA.
This thing absolutely rips 🙂 the best I can describe it is an aluminum framed KTM with a touch more longitudinal rigidity, WAY better egros/cockpit, slightly more responsive motor, suspension and clutch.
Only got in 4x 15min motos as it was hot af and I got so excited about riding that I barely hydrated before loading up, so I got gassed very quickly.
Before I get into the bike, let me talk about my biggest gripe about buying the bike… the service manual. I’m not sure if the Japanese guy who wrote it was drunk or if it was bring your blind dog to work day but there’s some, IMO, critical torque specs missing out of the list. So far that I’ve discovered: linkage, swingarm pivot and footpeg mounts.
Set the mounts to 22lbs/top and 18lbs bottom. Did the linkage at 35lbs and shock mount at 32lbs. Pivot at 65lbs.
And speaking of their torque setting list, who tf is the translator? Gd, call it a bar mount/top triple clamp/lower triple clamp/front axle/rear axle, etc.
Enough whining for what was a good day, on to the bike:
CHASSIS
Does nothing spectacular, does everything pretty damn good. Whoever did up the new gen frame needs to head their R&D if they aren’t already. So balanced. Slightly on the stiff side but hardly worth mentioning. For me, the perfect cockpit triangle. Now I did add the Pro Pegs and STC lower Honda mounts, but rider to control room is great. It’s a spacious cockpit that you can move around in and still get up and tight with.
Front end has a lot of bite but the bike will still reward getting towards the rear and calling the thunder out of a rut or soft turn. You don’t have to get up on the seat… it will turn.
SUSPENSION
How do I describe something that works so well but is setup absolutely garbage from the MFG? I’m a big guy (6’6”, 225lbs dry) so obviously it’s under sprung but the balance is a damn calamity. The forks are insanely soft up top and get into what feels like a pretty stiff mid stroke. Definitely too stiff for mx, especially for the springs they come with. Now couple that over soft front with a stiff rear end. It feels like the rear spring is overpowering the front and it was causing the bike the get a bit weird on 3rd gear wide open straights/rollers and when transitioning body position into corners. Taking some low and high speed helped a little but I gotta be honest, it needs to be set up for me. On that note, I slapped the front end down pretty good into a roller and she didn’t bottom out. Good ol’ 49mm Showas.
ENGINE
If there is one aspect about this bike that outshines the balance and feel of the cockpit and chassis, it’s the power delivery.
Now interesting note… on first ride I forgot the map settings were on 3 and I didn’t have the TC on. This thing was a damn handful. I can’t really put into words how hard this thing would rocket out of a rut or snap through the power range. Map 3 no TC is an absolute animal. Once I realized what was going on and that 450s are supposed to be tamer than this, I put it on map 2 TC3. Didn’t care for TC 3. In deep soft sand corners, it would kick in and cause the bike to push out then snap back into the line. Was just a very weird feeling. Pulled in after moto 2 and put it on map 2 TC 2. Butter. 2nd gear pulled out of any spot in a corner, revved out with ZERO dips or spikes in power. Just hooked then pulled, and pulled. Due to how exhausted I was getting by moto 3 I started keeping it 3rd the whole time. Even if it sounded suspiciously low in rpm, it would still pick up and just go with one the smoothest power curves ever. Think KTM but with slightly faster pickup. Didn’t ride map 1 because I was absolutely wiped out after moto 4 and hung it up. I want to give map 3 another chance w/ tc on, but map 2 is deceptively smooth. I think map 1 and 2 with/without tc are going to be the ticket for this bike.
CONTROLS
This will be short and sweet but for me, easily the best cockpit on any bike. Throttle is very smooth, nothing special but good feel and response. The clutch… ooooooof. Some will chastise me for saying this but this thing shits all over KTMs Brembo in terms of modularity and contact feel/pull. It’s similar to a Kawi, but a slightly smoother “more predictable” feel through the range of movement. When I tried the Kawi, the clutch initially felt great but would feel suddenly stiffer just before the point of engagement. The Honda was consistent the whole time. Think the smoothest 125 cable clutch you’ve ever felt in your life. I’ve always been a two finger clutch guy, I’m now a one finger clutch guy. Yes, it’s that smooth and light.
Front brake is touchy, but not too touchy. You immediately feel it in action from the slightest pull but it’s very predictable. Barely pull, barely brake. Grab it, lock the wheel. That new caliper is amazing.
I was breaking in some fresh Tech 5s as well so it’s hard to give feedback on shifter feel being that I never raised up the shifter enough to get under it properly. But it goes into gear with authority, loves the shift fast off or on a load and is a bitch of a bitch to get into neutral. I like.
So aside from me thinking map 3 was mellow and thinking I was in over my head, today was a solid day. Just sucks the wind died down before we made it to OCA.
This thing absolutely rips 🙂 the best I can describe it is an aluminum framed KTM with a touch more longitudinal rigidity, WAY better egros/cockpit, slightly more responsive motor, suspension and clutch.
I never liked the last gen chassis so my time of trying it was minimal.
The Shop
Now on that note, it seems to reward good technique. I could get away with coasting my kawis into some corners, but this thing really rewards on the gas with the right body positioning. But I suspect it’s because of that forward pitch feel from the oem suspension setting. Once I started keeping the front end lighter, it started to really shine. I honestly thought it turned like trash until I figured that out.
AX, ehhh… I wouldn’t run map 3 on it lol idk. If you can handle tight shit with a big bike you’ll love it. Map 2 is a very forgiving map. Doesn’t kick or jump at you but will also still pull out of anything.
I've always been a guy who likes a hit. I did not like the smooth map at all. Outdoors I did find that stock gearing works the best for me and I'm using the same map and tc. I did have TDR Motorsports in Ohio Dyno tune my ecu and 3 has meat the whole way through, but not anything I'd call uncontrollable.
You're about my size and I put springs in for my weight and I'm relatively happy with it with stock valving. I also started with Keefer's suggestions and only ended up a couple clicks stiffer. I also utilized his torque settings he recommended and I'm really loving the bike.
Didn’t Honda go back to the 08 chassis dimensions on the 17 model ?
But in all fairness, I never tried #3 with the tc on and being out of riding for over a year, it definitely woke my ass up haha I’m also VERY sensitive to front end feel and tend to like a firm front that lets the rear soak everything. So this bike in oem config was doing the opposite of what I’m used to with suspension.
There’s also the very real possibility that rider error contributed to the feedback.
I think once I sort the suspension I’ll give this a 2nd review when I make my build thread 🤘
Also had an 18 & now a 20 WE. I’m a bigger guy like yourself & they all required suspension work to get them to work well.
As a vet mortal rider myself I haven’t had any issues with the 09+ chassis once they were dialed. A click or two depending on the track & they’ve been money.
Looking forward to your review after getting the suspension sorted out.
Pit Row
I’m definitely slipping up, it’s too gorgeous out here to not explore.
So I got rid of the mid stroke harshness.
I originally set the top clamp to 22ft/lbs and the bottom at 20. Well… turns out those numbers are in nM per the manual. So turns out I’m just a jackass 35yo who can’t read worth a damn 😂 still very undersprung but a lot more rideable.
I put looked up the settings Ping recommended from a vital video, set them exactly the same except fork compression is 7 clicks out instead of 8. Way more balanced and the rear isn’t fighting the front as much.
After back to back riding (6 hours total now), map 2/no TC and map 3/TC 2 or 3 is great for this bike. Didn’t care for map 1. It’s minor but that bog down low is still there on #1 and it’s very exaggerated in soft turns. Almost knifed out the front end because it didn’t pull when I expected it to.
I wanted to send my suspension to Pro Action, but between a track 10min away that I can to whenever I want (you pay a yearly membership and they give you an access card for the mag lock on the gate) and this bike being so damn fun, I might end up waiting until 25hrs when the suspension needs a rebuild anyway.
Beyond that, got some goodies from ARC and CMT on the way.
When I send the suspenders out, I’m going to frame down the bike and start the build thread.
Can’t wait until I get the suspension done, this thing is all over the place on OCA’s main track but it gets by just fine on the vet 🙂
I’ve been riding in map 2 mostly. Map 3 on tc 2 is actually pretty damn playful now that I’m used to the bike. Rode Sunday and was out at oca again 6-8 today. I REALLY need to get the suspension done. Trying to roll up jumps or kick 4th gear through the rollers is downright frightening with a soft front end.
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