2020 CRF450RWE test ride by Keefer

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3/22/2020 4:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/25/2020 9:35 AM

In case some of you haven't seen the vid.. Agree with his comments on the bike.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/23/2020 2:30 AM

Keefer is ace
Good vid

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3/23/2020 5:24 AM

Who TF downvoted this. Awesome video. I prefer a 250F but that thing looks awesome...

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3/23/2020 5:41 AM

Love keefers reviews! Those WEs are absolutely gorgeous! Crazy how fast he wore the paint off the clutch cover!

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3/23/2020 6:54 AM

gjbruny wrote:

Love keefers reviews! Those WEs are absolutely gorgeous! Crazy how fast he wore the paint off the clutch cover!

Agree. I really like Keefer’s reviews as well because he calls like it is & comes across as a genuine person. Also was thinking the same thing about the clutch cover . They could have used 2 different bikes in the vid..

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/23/2020 7:29 AM

"I reduced torque on the front and side number plates by 11% and that really increased straight-line stability without sacrificing corner entry lean in while increasing hp due to less frictional losses. Win-Win!"
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3/23/2020 8:25 AM

Good vid, confused why this is coming out almost a year after the 2020's were released though?

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3/23/2020 8:54 AM

Love his reviews!

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3/23/2020 5:40 PM

soggy wrote:

Good vid, confused why this is coming out almost a year after the 2020's were released though?

Good question. I was wondering that myself. Maybe Keefer can chime in & shed some light on it.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/23/2020 7:04 PM

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

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3/23/2020 10:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/23/2020 10:59 PM

I misread the topic and thought H4L and Keefer were testing this bike together, lol. H4L...I know you would if you could !! Great vid, thanks.

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There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.

3/24/2020 6:02 AM

ledger wrote:

I misread the topic and thought H4L and Keefer were testing this bike together, lol. H4L...I know you would if you could !! Great vid, thanks.

That would be a cool gig to have. cool

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/24/2020 6:14 AM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

Hey Kris Thanks for your response.

Curious on your thoughts about current model bikes like the WE. How far advanced are these showroom models in comparison to manufacturer factory bikes say like 10 yrs. back or so ?
Some of these modern 450’s are really good off the showroom floors vs. what was available to the public when they were 1st introduced.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/24/2020 7:40 AM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

Hey Kris, I noticed around the 7 minute mark you mentioned turning in the fork rebound 1 click to get more hold up. That seems counter-intuitive to me...wouldn't slowing the rebound down keep the fork in the lower part of the stroke longer? Or maybe the slower rebound just makes it "feel" like it's holding up more? Curious on your thoughts there.

Thanks for the review as always!

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3/24/2020 7:55 AM

H4L wrote:

In case some of you haven't seen the vid.. Agree with his comments on the bike.

Great looking bike bike! How much out the door?

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3/24/2020 8:45 AM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

KW62 wrote:

Hey Kris, I noticed around the 7 minute mark you mentioned turning in the fork rebound 1 click to get more hold up. That seems counter-intuitive to me...wouldn't slowing the rebound down keep the fork in the lower part of the stroke longer? Or maybe the slower rebound just makes it "feel" like it's holding up more? Curious on your thoughts there.

Thanks for the review as always!

Slowing the rebound down will help with damping feel as well. The slower moving fork settles the front end down as well as prevents the fork from moving too quick through the stroke, effectively creating more hold up. Each adjustment (rebound, compression) has a distinct feel to it when riding.

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3/24/2020 8:54 AM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

H4L wrote:

Hey Kris Thanks for your response.

Curious on your thoughts about current model bikes like the WE. How far advanced are these showroom models in comparison to manufacturer factory bikes say like 10 yrs. back or so ?
Some of these modern 450’s are really good off the showroom floors vs. what was available to the public when they were 1st introduced.

I 2nd this. Would love to know how this bike compares to older works bikes.

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3/24/2020 10:46 AM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

H4L wrote:

Hey Kris Thanks for your response.

Curious on your thoughts about current model bikes like the WE. How far advanced are these showroom models in comparison to manufacturer factory bikes say like 10 yrs. back or so ?
Some of these modern 450’s are really good off the showroom floors vs. what was available to the public when they were 1st introduced.

ace402 wrote:

I 2nd this. Would love to know how this bike compares to older works bikes.

I don't think it's really apples to apples. Factory bikes have parts that are never going to make sense on production bikes, particularly suspension components. I think, overall, the production bikes now are much better, but there are likely aspects of the factory bikes over 10 years ago that are still much better than what's on production bikes now. So, in statistical terms, the mean performance of production bikes is better than older factory bikes, but some factory parts from 10 years ago are still much better than what's in production now.

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3/24/2020 11:00 AM

sandtrack315 wrote:

I don't think it's really apples to apples. Factory bikes have parts that are never going to make sense on production bikes, particularly suspension components. I think, overall, the production bikes now are much better, but there are likely aspects of the factory bikes over 10 years ago that are still much better than what's on production bikes now. So, in statistical terms, the mean performance of production bikes is better than older factory bikes, but some factory parts from 10 years ago are still much better than what's in production now.

It's more about the hours of testing, fine tuning, and personalized setup than the special parts. In other words if you got off your 2020 CRF450 and on to RC's 2004 CRF450, you'd probably think your bike is better because it's setup for you and what you like in a bike is nothing like what RC likes.

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Powerband in every gear !

3/24/2020 11:08 AM

H4L wrote:

Hey Kris Thanks for your response.

Curious on your thoughts about current model bikes like the WE. How far advanced are these showroom models in comparison to manufacturer factory bikes say like 10 yrs. back or so ?
Some of these modern 450’s are really good off the showroom floors vs. what was available to the public when they were 1st introduced.

ace402 wrote:

I 2nd this. Would love to know how this bike compares to older works bikes.

sandtrack315 wrote:

I don't think it's really apples to apples. Factory bikes have parts that are never going to make sense on production bikes, particularly suspension components. I think, overall, the production bikes now are much better, but there are likely aspects of the factory bikes over 10 years ago that are still much better than what's on production bikes now. So, in statistical terms, the mean performance of production bikes is better than older factory bikes, but some factory parts from 10 years ago are still much better than what's in production now.

I totally get that. I think the point of the original comment was to find out how close they are getting. No one would argue that a stock 2006 YZ250 is light years ahead of a 1986 YZ250. The question is how close is the new WE to an older factory bike.

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3/24/2020 11:08 AM

sandtrack315 wrote:

I don't think it's really apples to apples. Factory bikes have parts that are never going to make sense on production bikes, particularly suspension components. I think, overall, the production bikes now are much better, but there are likely aspects of the factory bikes over 10 years ago that are still much better than what's on production bikes now. So, in statistical terms, the mean performance of production bikes is better than older factory bikes, but some factory parts from 10 years ago are still much better than what's in production now.

i think they were talking about the 2019 WE not works race bikes.

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3/24/2020 11:16 AM

ace402 wrote:

I 2nd this. Would love to know how this bike compares to older works bikes.

sandtrack315 wrote:

I don't think it's really apples to apples. Factory bikes have parts that are never going to make sense on production bikes, particularly suspension components. I think, overall, the production bikes now are much better, but there are likely aspects of the factory bikes over 10 years ago that are still much better than what's on production bikes now. So, in statistical terms, the mean performance of production bikes is better than older factory bikes, but some factory parts from 10 years ago are still much better than what's in production now.

ace402 wrote:

I totally get that. I think the point of the original comment was to find out how close they are getting. No one would argue that a stock 2006 YZ250 is light years ahead of a 1986 YZ250. The question is how close is the new WE to an older factory bike.

Tim ferry told me his 15 kawy 450 was better than his 07 mxdn bike.

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3/24/2020 12:06 PM

Let’s see...
The “hand porter” cylinder head.
The complete Yosh system ($1,400)
Shock & Fork Coatings (too much $!)
The Seat cover and graphics ($200)
The DID LTX rims (currently on sale on some sites!)
ECU settings
A chain that doesn’t suck (RK Gold $100)

And it costs $2,600 more? Well, the guys I race against that have one...LOVE IT! For the Hondaphile types, I’d say it’s worth it.

On the other hand: if ya go get a smoking deal on an R...make it your own version that you want...your way....
Well, I’m sure you could get A LOT done with the $2,600 you saved.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

3/24/2020 12:18 PM

Good conversation fellas..
I understand a factory bike is tailored to that particular rider on a particular manufacturer, but was more so wondering how this WE compared to factory bikes of the recent past & how much the gap has been closed.

Also, does anybody know what the HP is on this model ? I read somewhere that it is actually detuned vs. the R model even though it has head porting, Yosh system & mapping to compliment the engine mods..

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/24/2020 12:25 PM

That guy sounds like he knows his shit, does a fine job on this review.

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3/24/2020 12:40 PM

gjbruny wrote:

Love keefers reviews! Those WEs are absolutely gorgeous! Crazy how fast he wore the paint off the clutch cover!

H4L wrote:

Agree. I really like Keefer’s reviews as well because he calls like it is & comes across as a genuine person. Also was thinking the same thing about the clutch cover . They could have used 2 different bikes in the vid..

100% agree mate!

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

3/24/2020 7:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/24/2020 7:34 PM

biondo wrote:

Great looking bike bike! How much out the door?

That depends on the dealer & how you negotiate. I bought one the 1st week of Sept. 2019 when they hit the showroom floors. No dealer within a 100 mile radius was willing to negotiate so I paid full price + fees. I lost out on buying a 19 model because I waited for them to come down, but they sold out. Didn't want that to happen on the 20 model so I was willing to pay the asking price.
I would think now would be a good time to buy considering what is happening.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

3/24/2020 8:02 PM

H4L wrote:

Good conversation fellas..
I understand a factory bike is tailored to that particular rider on a particular manufacturer, but was more so wondering how this WE compared to factory bikes of the recent past & how much the gap has been closed.

Also, does anybody know what the HP is on this model ? I read somewhere that it is actually detuned vs. the R model even though it has head porting, Yosh system & mapping to compliment the engine mods..

When I was a kid my dad bought Greg Rand's 1990 Loretta's bikes the week after Loretta's. They were both new KX80's. One was bone stock for the stock class and the other was his full mod Pro Circuit bike. Greg won one class that year, with Kevin Windham winning the other. (Look it up) I was 2 years younger than Greg. I thought the Pro Circuit bike would be completely unridable for me. Greg's dad said it was easy to ride. Ironically the Pro Circuit bike was much faster AND easier to ride. It had a very smooth and long power band. Felt like it had no gaps anywhere, just a perfectly linear power band.

After racing the mod bike and practicing on the stock bike, the stock bike became the hard one to ride.

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3/24/2020 8:24 PM

H4L wrote:

In case some of you haven't seen the vid.. Agree with his comments on the bike.

biondo wrote:

Great looking bike bike! How much out the door?

H4L wrote:

That depends on the dealer & how you negotiate. I bought one the 1st week of Sept. 2019 when they hit the showroom floors. No dealer within a 100 mile radius was willing to negotiate so I paid full price + fees. I lost out on buying a 19 model because I waited for them to come down, but they sold out. Didn't want that to happen on the 20 model so I was willing to pay the asking price.
I would think now would be a good time to buy considering what is happening.

Thanks for the info...maybe with the foreseeable economic situation the demand
Might lower the cost a bit....but sounds like it’s race ready out of the crate!
Stay Safe 🤠

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3/25/2020 2:24 AM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Thanks guys... The WE's sometimes don't get passed around the media until later in the year. Honda will delegate the "R's" first because they simply don't have as many "WE's" to go around. I am still working on cranking out content even in these unfortunate times. Just posted up a pod about the 2020 Honda CRF450RWE on my site that dives into the "R" and "WE" models a little more. Hope to see some of you at a track soon!

KW62 wrote:

Hey Kris, I noticed around the 7 minute mark you mentioned turning in the fork rebound 1 click to get more hold up. That seems counter-intuitive to me...wouldn't slowing the rebound down keep the fork in the lower part of the stroke longer? Or maybe the slower rebound just makes it "feel" like it's holding up more? Curious on your thoughts there.

Thanks for the review as always!

Kris Keefer wrote:

Slowing the rebound down will help with damping feel as well. The slower moving fork settles the front end down as well as prevents the fork from moving too quick through the stroke, effectively creating more hold up. Each adjustment (rebound, compression) has a distinct feel to it when riding.

I can offer a little technical insight into why there's some hold-up from the rebound change.

If you look a the oil flow through a Showa 49 twin chamber fork (it's the same as the KYB system) you have a needle restricting a port through the center of the mid-valve piston. That needle is controlled by the rebound clicker (opend or closed).

Oil can flow through that needle in both directions in most standard forks (including the Showa 49).
That rebound clicker has a smaller effect on the compression oil flow than on rebound with most valving settings because most tuners use a thing called "float" in the mid valve. The float allows a certain amount of extra oil to flow through in compression at low speed. Float works like a partial check-valve to increase low speed compression oil flow (more flow is less damping).

Some aftermarket and works suspension systems use a check valve to isolate that oil flow through the needle port so oil can only go through in the rebound direction. That's more common in a rear shock than in a fork. Aftermarket companies like Race Tech sell shock shaft nuts with check valves built in.

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