2020 CRF250

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6/11/2019 4:15 AM

Who thinks these changes will fix the power issues and make the Honda competitive with the Yamaha for shootout wins?

New cam profile delays opening of exhaust valves and has reduced valve overlap, resulting in improved torque and power in the 6,000-10,000 rpm range.
Optimized combustion-chamber shape.
Ignition timing is optimized at 8,000 rpm for improved torque and power.
Gear-position sensor added to allow dedicated ignition maps for each gear.
Header-pipe resonator is removed for improved power character when shifting from second to third gear.
Muffler is revised for improved low-to-midrange torque.
New air-filter element is 10% larger for increased airflow.
Enlarged left-side radiator for efficient cooling with higher engine-power output.
Second gear has revised (higher) ratio for improved drive, while second and third gears have a new WPC surface treatment for improved durability and reduced friction.
Clutch capacity is increased by 18%, and clutch spring has a higher rate.
New lighter aluminum perimeter frame and aluminum swingarm are designed to achieve increased yaw-angle stiffness while retaining lateral and torsional stiffness, resulting in improved stability.
Newly shaped footpegs are 20% lighter and shed mud more easily, giving the rider great feel and confidence in all riding conditions.
Thanks in part to revised internal suspension settings (fork has increased low-speed damping, while shock has increased low-speed compression and reduced high-speed compression), handling has been improved in the following areas: stability, tracking, turning and traction.
Battery repositioned 28mm lower to drop center of gravity for better handling.
Rear brake has a shorter hose and longer, lighter pedal, as well as a new pad material with improved power and better durability in muddy conditions. Lower-rear brake guard removed for reduced unsprung weight and improved cooling.
New graphics.

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6/11/2019 5:51 AM

I think its going to be hard to beat the YZ or KTM in power but as long as Honda can get close and keep that CR chassis feeling everyone loves, I think it will be a home run.

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6/11/2019 5:59 AM

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

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6/11/2019 6:30 AM

Honda has it right with the dual mufflers. They are about a foot shorter than those single sided bazookas everyone else is running and looks 100 times better.

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2017 CRF450r

6/11/2019 7:53 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2019 7:53 AM

soggy wrote:

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

just curious and serious, how do the twins pipe affect your riding? I hear nothing but praise for how well the crf250 handles. So you think it would be even better with a single. If it handles better than most bikes that have a single, so why is that?
thanks

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6/11/2019 8:13 AM

soggy wrote:

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

GPrider wrote:

just curious and serious, how do the twins pipe affect your riding? I hear nothing but praise for how well the crf250 handles. So you think it would be even better with a single. If it handles better than most bikes that have a single, so why is that?
thanks

My 450 handles great. The 250 is one of the best bikes I have ever ridden handling wise. People who rag on Honda's duals do it for reasons that borderline insanity. Basically, they have no reason. They just say duals are dumb. They say it costs more to replace exhausts, which is true. But most people replace exhausts for one reason...they want to, they don't need to. These are the same people that buy titanium footpegs to save 4 ounces....all the while they're 40 pounds overweight themselves. Makes me chuckle.

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2017 CRF450r

6/11/2019 9:59 AM

I don’t think it will be a yz but they sound like they should be good changes. I really want to ride one.

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6/11/2019 10:06 AM

soggy wrote:

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

GPrider wrote:

just curious and serious, how do the twins pipe affect your riding? I hear nothing but praise for how well the crf250 handles. So you think it would be even better with a single. If it handles better than most bikes that have a single, so why is that?
thanks

MOTO732 wrote:

My 450 handles great. The 250 is one of the best bikes I have ever ridden handling wise. People who rag on Honda's duals do it for reasons that borderline insanity. Basically, they have no reason. They just say duals are dumb. They say it costs more to replace exhausts, which is true. But most people replace exhausts for one reason...they want to, they don't need to. These are the same people that buy titanium footpegs to save 4 ounces....all the while they're 40 pounds overweight themselves. Makes me chuckle.

Borderline insanity? Might be some hyperbole there.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

6/11/2019 10:12 AM

I agree it could be a great bike, given the already great chassis. Would love to ride a YZ250F and the CRF250 back to back. I’d sacrifice a bit of power for an amazing chassis. Although, I do love KYB stuff and the feel of the Yamaha now. I do hate acting like a neurosurgeon every time I change a filter, though.

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6/11/2019 11:01 AM

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

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6/11/2019 12:46 PM

MOTO732 wrote:

Honda has it right with the dual mufflers. They are about a foot shorter than those single sided bazookas everyone else is running and looks 100 times better.

Truth. Buuut, they could still do a center port frame/head/exhaust seeing that they said the dual exhaust was done because the pipe has to come out one side. Then theyd have a single pipe and dual mufflers.

Thats an upgrade they can keep in their back pocket and when theyre running out of stuff to do drop that. All these mfg’s have lots of stuff they know they can do later on to be able to consistently offer upgrades. The 450 could even do it first then the 250 next year to get more time. They already did finger followers and a bridge box piston-thats huge, plus downdraft, electric start. The last big change could be centerport, then it has the same big ticket parts ktm’s have.

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6/11/2019 12:54 PM

BMc914 wrote:

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

It appears their engineers read them, though. Or they already knew the bike lacked bottom end. Or both.

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6/11/2019 1:41 PM

BMc914 wrote:

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

sandtrack315 wrote:

It appears their engineers read them, though. Or they already knew the bike lacked bottom end. Or both.

So...you think Honda's engineers didn't know the power curve of the bike? And they needed the genius magazine shootouts to realize this and fix it? They do read shootouts and reviews for real world info on their bikes. They also use mag shootouts to get head to head independent comps of the bikes. But manuf know exactly what their bikes are like before the public sees them. Every manuf takes risks on how they will build their bikes. Sometimes they nail it, sometimes they don't.

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2017 CRF450r

6/11/2019 3:09 PM

BMc914 wrote:

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

sandtrack315 wrote:

It appears their engineers read them, though. Or they already knew the bike lacked bottom end. Or both.

MOTO732 wrote:

So...you think Honda's engineers didn't know the power curve of the bike? And they needed the genius magazine shootouts to realize this and fix it? They do read shootouts and reviews for real world info on their bikes. They also use mag shootouts to get head to head independent comps of the bikes. But manuf know exactly what their bikes are like before the public sees them. Every manuf takes risks on how they will build their bikes. Sometimes they nail it, sometimes they don't.

If you read what I said we don’t disagree...but yes I’m sure they know the power curve of all the machines but the shootouts are another real world data point for them and shows them what they need to focus on, overall, on the bike.

Anyways, I’m happy to see the changes and hope to ride one soon.

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6/11/2019 4:21 PM

BMc914 wrote:

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

The engineers of these OEMs read Shootouts very carefully. I've gotten calls from OEM staff members located in Japan within 24 hours of a Shootout being posted to ask further questions, or specific details on certain comments.

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6/11/2019 4:38 PM

I rode a '19 CRF250 on Sunday for the first time(any 250f) in 10yrs. It felt barely faster than my Chinese Thumpstar 110 pit bike and I couldn't get off it fast enough.

I'll be over here in line waiting for them to build a CRF650...

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6/11/2019 4:47 PM

BMc914 wrote:

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

ML512 wrote:

The engineers of these OEMs read Shootouts very carefully. I've gotten calls from OEM staff members located in Japan within 24 hours of a Shootout being posted to ask further questions, or specific details on certain comments.

That doesn't mean they are developing a bike for shootout wins. But ya they probably do like to know the results and what first opinions are of a new bike.

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6/11/2019 6:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2019 6:23 PM

Every oem has the other color bikes in their R&D department...

That's pennies in the budget


The CRF is already a really strong engine peak power wise. Strongest in areas

It needs more bark - rather than more bottom. The ktm is generally in the same boat. It has excellent low end on the dyno
Number 1 complaint from yzf riders going to ktm - no bottom.

honda has NEVER really had a strong "barky" 250f. It's just not their thing. I'll bet these new changes put the bike class leading from 9000-12000 rpm - potentially to 13000

The bike ALREADY has the power inside to match the ktm in over rev - but honda maps it to sign off so the gears feel longer.

couple these new changes to it's really good chassis - and it might win some shootouts next year. The yzf will wint the vets - but most vets don't buy 250s.. IMHO the yzf is grossly over rated. Go roll race your buddy with a ktm and you might cry wondering where all that "bottom and midrange went"

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6/11/2019 7:39 PM

MOTO732 wrote:

Honda has it right with the dual mufflers. They are about a foot shorter than those single sided bazookas everyone else is running and looks 100 times better.

Not

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6/11/2019 8:13 PM

I just want them to address the reliablity issues with the latest gen, that kept me from buying one and snagging my 17 after my 19 YZ250F. Curious to see if these tweaks make noticeable improvements, but lets be honest most people here and that plunk down the money on one will never ride the engine to its full potential, Honda sells bikes that are comfortable / easy to ride and reliable, plain and simple. Want a Ferrari type MX bike grab a KTM.

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"Asking this question here is analogous to going to a KrispyKreme store and asking the patrons if you should have a doughnut."-NotCore

6/11/2019 10:13 PM

soggy wrote:

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

GPrider wrote:

just curious and serious, how do the twins pipe affect your riding? I hear nothing but praise for how well the crf250 handles. So you think it would be even better with a single. If it handles better than most bikes that have a single, so why is that?
thanks

i dont think the twin mufflers has much to do with handling, it probably has a small affect but isn't the sole reason. Honda throughout the years has had great handling bikes dual mufflers or not, 2 stroke or 4 (save the wacky characteristics people talk about with the generation that started in 2010. I just personally don't care for the aesthetic, the higher likely hood of damage in a fall and higher replacement costs. you like it i don't, the world continues to spin.

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6/11/2019 10:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2019 11:07 PM

Some good points taken from another external thread :

Two small pipes flow more efficiently than one large one of the same volumetic area.

In many cases, particularly with air cooled engines, there are problems with cooling the bridge between the exhaust valve seats. Running 2 seperate ports allows the ports to diverge and provide some more "meat" between the valves to carry away the heat. This results in fewer problems with cracking/valve seat loosening.

the xr's have 2 ports, and 88-90 they would exit separately and end right at the muffler 2 long pipes that attached all the way back better top end!xr's did it from 88-90 on the 600 and other year model bikes...two pipes will make better topend and produce better hotter flow...the downside is money.

ook at some aftermarket headers for say an xr600, they all join much sooner than stock...the reason is it will produce more power down low, and loose a bit up top long individual headers that are joined as late as possible will develop power up top and lose a bit down low...

Honda wanted to make the 250 live in the upper rev range where 250F live ( Like 125's) The same reason they wen dual cam to move the power up so that tuners can exploit the design for top end power.

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6/12/2019 12:50 AM

BMc914 wrote:

Honda isn't making dirt bikes to win shootouts for dirt bike magazines and websites.

sandtrack315 wrote:

It appears their engineers read them, though. Or they already knew the bike lacked bottom end. Or both.

MOTO732 wrote:

So...you think Honda's engineers didn't know the power curve of the bike? And they needed the genius magazine shootouts to realize this and fix it? They do read shootouts and reviews for real world info on their bikes. They also use mag shootouts to get head to head independent comps of the bikes. But manuf know exactly what their bikes are like before the public sees them. Every manuf takes risks on how they will build their bikes. Sometimes they nail it, sometimes they don't.

The same engineers and test riders that thought the 1997 CR250R was a great bike!

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6/12/2019 2:26 AM

soggy wrote:

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

GPrider wrote:

just curious and serious, how do the twins pipe affect your riding? I hear nothing but praise for how well the crf250 handles. So you think it would be even better with a single. If it handles better than most bikes that have a single, so why is that?
thanks

soggy wrote:

i dont think the twin mufflers has much to do with handling, it probably has a small affect but isn't the sole reason. Honda throughout the years has had great handling bikes dual mufflers or not, 2 stroke or 4 (save the wacky characteristics people talk about with the generation that started in 2010. I just personally don't care for the aesthetic, the higher likely hood of damage in a fall and higher replacement costs. you like it i don't, the world continues to spin.

Higher likelihood of damage? They are shorter, therefore less protruding, if anything they may be less prone to damage

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

6/12/2019 2:28 AM

sandtrack315 wrote:

It appears their engineers read them, though. Or they already knew the bike lacked bottom end. Or both.

MOTO732 wrote:

So...you think Honda's engineers didn't know the power curve of the bike? And they needed the genius magazine shootouts to realize this and fix it? They do read shootouts and reviews for real world info on their bikes. They also use mag shootouts to get head to head independent comps of the bikes. But manuf know exactly what their bikes are like before the public sees them. Every manuf takes risks on how they will build their bikes. Sometimes they nail it, sometimes they don't.

inthebadboycorner wrote:

The same engineers and test riders that thought the 1997 CR250R was a great bike!

I think you said it in jest? I doubt it was the same engineers/testers smile

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

6/12/2019 2:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/12/2019 2:34 AM

Speaking of reliability, do CRF250s still eat valves and clutches?

Also, I’m surprised the other OEMs have not copied the Yamaha app for tuning. Thing works great.

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6/12/2019 2:37 AM

kiwifan wrote:

Higher likelihood of damage? They are shorter, therefore less protruding, if anything they may be less prone to damage

Yes, but you have a probability of damage if the bike falls on either side, so it’s likely about even.

I think they look awesome.

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6/12/2019 4:43 AM

soggy wrote:

if only they would get rid of the dueling mufflers

GPrider wrote:

just curious and serious, how do the twins pipe affect your riding? I hear nothing but praise for how well the crf250 handles. So you think it would be even better with a single. If it handles better than most bikes that have a single, so why is that?
thanks

MOTO732 wrote:

My 450 handles great. The 250 is one of the best bikes I have ever ridden handling wise. People who rag on Honda's duals do it for reasons that borderline insanity. Basically, they have no reason. They just say duals are dumb. They say it costs more to replace exhausts, which is true. But most people replace exhausts for one reason...they want to, they don't need to. These are the same people that buy titanium footpegs to save 4 ounces....all the while they're 40 pounds overweight themselves. Makes me chuckle.

I think he means they're fighting each other !! "dueling" Seemed funny at the time.....

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6/12/2019 6:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/12/2019 6:22 AM

sandtrack315 wrote:

Speaking of reliability, do CRF250s still eat valves and clutches?

Also, I’m surprised the other OEMs have not copied the Yamaha app for tuning. Thing works great.

Nope that was fixed 2014, the 2010-13s did for sure. Clutches are still a weak point though I think they updated the 19+s in that area. My 16 and 17 were still every bit as bulletproof as my YZ250Fs were.

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"Asking this question here is analogous to going to a KrispyKreme store and asking the patrons if you should have a doughnut."-NotCore

6/12/2019 10:27 AM

sandtrack315 wrote:

Speaking of reliability, do CRF250s still eat valves and clutches?

Also, I’m surprised the other OEMs have not copied the Yamaha app for tuning. Thing works great.

usafwx wrote:

Nope that was fixed 2014, the 2010-13s did for sure. Clutches are still a weak point though I think they updated the 19+s in that area. My 16 and 17 were still every bit as bulletproof as my YZ250Fs were.

I only had valve issues with my 09. 10+ were extremely reliable.

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