2020 450 Shootout | by Michael Lindsay

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8/12/2019 10:13 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/12/2019 1:02 PM

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8/12/2019 10:16 AM

Cool video. But I didn't feel like it was aimed at ordinary consumers. Just an observation, love his channel though I'll join his Patreon next month.

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If talk is cheap, silence must be expensive because nobody can afford it!

8/12/2019 10:18 AM

I saw his vid the other day. I think having bikes off the showroom floor is a good angle to take. Huge investment to show viewers that you are as unbiased as possible and that MFGs cant touch the bikes to alter results.

Sounds silly but if he does a good job it may change the way all the other media outlets do shootout tests.

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8/12/2019 10:26 AM

GoonRider93 wrote:

Cool video. But I didn't feel like it was aimed at ordinary consumers. Just an observation, love his channel though I'll join his Patreon next month.

Yeah I think this video is for the average Joe. I believe the incoming test rider breakdown will be for those who desire more technical info. I really dig how he is going about this shootout, including giving us the basic breakdown up front.

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8/12/2019 10:48 AM

I don't typically like watching videos on bike shootouts, but did a good job getting to the point.

Btw- Who doesn't have $60k to buy all new bikes?!

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8/12/2019 11:14 AM

I feel that the test results are fair and accurate. Will I buy blue? Yes...but I ride blue. Would I buy green if it had won? No...I ride blue...
I am sure others here feel the same...

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8/12/2019 11:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/12/2019 11:32 AM

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

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8/12/2019 11:42 AM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

LOL

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8/12/2019 11:42 AM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

Ha ha, what mag doesn't he have credibility with? MXA? That will hurt his credibility with consumers, maybe he should have a footnote at the end to add a tooth to get that street cred back!

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8/12/2019 11:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/12/2019 11:51 AM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

No idea about the Chaparral statement.

Curious why Yamaha has to "intro" a bike to review it? I can go up the street and buy one right now. Is there some rule about reviewing bikes at a certain time after their release?

As stated I am really digging this review format. No idea if there is or is not a hidden agenda. Thinking outside the box is something I appreciate, status quo stuff, meh. To each their own.


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8/12/2019 11:44 AM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

How is he hurting himself? He bought the bikes himself and is doing things his way. Because he's not doing the same thing the rest of the moto media does it's going to hurt him? I'd choose ML's opinion over any other media outlet, especially MXA.

Keep up the good work and different way of doing things Michael!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, O'Neal, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

8/12/2019 11:50 AM

Keefer and Swap are both cool with ML and like what he's doing...and RacerX doesnt even do shoot outs any more...So if you're referring to losing credibility with Cycle News, MXA and Dirt Rider, who gives a rat's ass? There are now "rules" Any other publication could have spent the money and did it this way.

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8/12/2019 11:50 AM

Wonder if testers also took into consideration for example hondas:
- overheating
- weak clutch
- butter chain sliders
- weak chains
- footpegs that wear faster than tires
- radiators made of (again) butter
- no oil level sight glass
- black clutch/ignition covers that are scraped before you get the bike out of the shop.

I do not care if a bike has 60 or 58 hp...but things mentioned above are for sure very important for 90% of buyers but ignored by testers in most shootouts...

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8/12/2019 11:51 AM

Saltiness is a bad look Mark. Save it for facebook...

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8/12/2019 11:55 AM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.


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8/12/2019 11:56 AM

Stay in school kids



In all seriousness, really great review! Quick, to the point, without the fluff or overly fancy words (Jody) to try and imply credibility. Well done ML! Looking forward to the more in-depth reviews.

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8/12/2019 11:59 AM

The Husqvarna was purchase from AEO Powersports in Murrieta, big thanks to Jeremy over there for helping me out even though I have a deal with Chaparral.

And yes, I did piss off some magazines. I got calls about it all week from OEMs who said that one of them had threatened them over my Shootout.

As for the Yamaha, the mags can wait because they’re waiting on their loaner bikes from the OEM. Which means they have to sign a NDA when they test them. Mine was privately acquired so I didn’t have to sign a NDA.

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If you liked my bike tests from Vital, head to my YouTube channel to see my latest tests and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcgAl-F63686Bfnt44vmrfQ
Instagram: @Michael_Lindsay512

8/12/2019 11:59 AM

dh893 wrote:

Stay in school kids



In all seriousness, really great review! Quick, to the point, without the fluff or overly fancy words (Jody) to try and imply credibility. Well done ML! Looking forward to the more in-depth reviews.

Blame Joe on the math

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If you liked my bike tests from Vital, head to my YouTube channel to see my latest tests and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcgAl-F63686Bfnt44vmrfQ
Instagram: @Michael_Lindsay512

8/12/2019 12:06 PM

dh893 wrote:

Stay in school kids



In all seriousness, really great review! Quick, to the point, without the fluff or overly fancy words (Jody) to try and imply credibility. Well done ML! Looking forward to the more in-depth reviews.

ML512 wrote:

Blame Joe on the math

Opps, my bad! hahaha, so much going on trying to finish in time.

This was me doing the math last night.

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8/12/2019 12:06 PM

ML512 wrote:

The Husqvarna was purchase from AEO Powersports in Murrieta, big thanks to Jeremy over there for helping me out even though I have a deal with Chaparral.

And yes, I did piss off some magazines. I got calls about it all week from OEMs who said that one of them had threatened them over my Shootout.

As for the Yamaha, the mags can wait because they’re waiting on their loaner bikes from the OEM. Which means they have to sign a NDA when they test them. Mine was privately acquired so I didn’t have to sign a NDA.

Ummm... why would any magazine be pissed off and threaten anything?? Wtf??

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, O'Neal, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

8/12/2019 12:08 PM

dh893 wrote:

Stay in school kids



In all seriousness, really great review! Quick, to the point, without the fluff or overly fancy words (Jody) to try and imply credibility. Well done ML! Looking forward to the more in-depth reviews.

ML512 wrote:

Blame Joe on the math

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

Opps, my bad! hahaha, so much going on trying to finish in time.

This was me doing the math last night.

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If you liked my bike tests from Vital, head to my YouTube channel to see my latest tests and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcgAl-F63686Bfnt44vmrfQ
Instagram: @Michael_Lindsay512

8/12/2019 12:09 PM

ML512 wrote:

The Husqvarna was purchase from AEO Powersports in Murrieta, big thanks to Jeremy over there for helping me out even though I have a deal with Chaparral.

And yes, I did piss off some magazines. I got calls about it all week from OEMs who said that one of them had threatened them over my Shootout.

As for the Yamaha, the mags can wait because they’re waiting on their loaner bikes from the OEM. Which means they have to sign a NDA when they test them. Mine was privately acquired so I didn’t have to sign a NDA.

HOW DARE YOU!

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8/12/2019 12:10 PM

dh893 wrote:

Stay in school kids



In all seriousness, really great review! Quick, to the point, without the fluff or overly fancy words (Jody) to try and imply credibility. Well done ML! Looking forward to the more in-depth reviews.

ML512 wrote:

Blame Joe on the math

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

Opps, my bad! hahaha, so much going on trying to finish in time.

This was me doing the math last night.

Sounds like you need a day to get out and ride

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, O'Neal, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

8/12/2019 12:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/12/2019 12:47 PM

greg570 wrote:

Wonder if testers also took into consideration for example hondas:
- overheating
- weak clutch
- butter chain sliders
- weak chains
- footpegs that wear faster than tires
- radiators made of (again) butter
- no oil level sight glass
- black clutch/ignition covers that are scraped before you get the bike out of the shop.

I do not care if a bike has 60 or 58 hp...but things mentioned above are for sure very important for 90% of buyers but ignored by testers in most shootouts...

how about the faults with the other bikes too if you are only going to point out one brands?

I own a '19 Honda and I haven't experienced much of what you have said is wrong with them, perhaps a few years ago yes.

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/12/2019 12:17 PM

ML512 wrote:

The Husqvarna was purchase from AEO Powersports in Murrieta, big thanks to Jeremy over there for helping me out even though I have a deal with Chaparral.

And yes, I did piss off some magazines. I got calls about it all week from OEMs who said that one of them had threatened them over my Shootout.

As for the Yamaha, the mags can wait because they’re waiting on their loaner bikes from the OEM. Which means they have to sign a NDA when they test them. Mine was privately acquired so I didn’t have to sign a NDA.

lol a magazine got butt hurt eh? lol

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/12/2019 12:17 PM

greg570 wrote:

Wonder if testers also took into consideration for example hondas:
- overheating
- weak clutch
- butter chain sliders
- weak chains
- footpegs that wear faster than tires
- radiators made of (again) butter
- no oil level sight glass
- black clutch/ignition covers that are scraped before you get the bike out of the shop.

I do not care if a bike has 60 or 58 hp...but things mentioned above are for sure very important for 90% of buyers but ignored by testers in most shootouts...


Interesting.
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8/12/2019 12:17 PM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

for goodness sake, get a grip!

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/12/2019 12:21 PM

Mr. Info wrote:

Chaparral does not sell Husqvarna’s so how did you buy a bike they don’t sell. And Yamaha has not done the 450 intro yet. You have pissed a lot of the magazines making them angry trying to one up them instead of playing by industry practice. Seems like you have a hidden agenda ML.
What else in this shootout is also not true. You don’t have credibility with several mags their words not mine. And I have no credibility with anybody and that’s ok but your burning bridges you might one day need to cross. Your only hurting yourself.

On the other hand, it's quite possible you've gone right out of your mind.

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Harrison Backmon, Esq.

8/12/2019 12:26 PM

seventeen wrote:

I feel that the test results are fair and accurate. Will I buy blue? Yes...but I ride blue. Would I buy green if it had won? No...I ride blue...
I am sure others here feel the same...

100% agree, the Honda didnt win overall, does it stop me buying one? No, only because I know the bike VERY well and what it is like with some mapping and tweaking on the suspension/chassis setup.

But I for one love the format ML does, the honesty and lack of bias. Well done ML and crew.

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Current rides: 2019 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

8/12/2019 12:27 PM


Great video, great observations. I remember when I got my 2017 KTM 450 one of the big changes was they made the frame softer longitudinally and stiffer torsionally. For 2019 they went to a stiffer frame. I'm almost due to replace my 2018 and I think I'm going to look for a leftover 2018 or barely used one. I ride trail and don't want to mess with a good thing.

Gotta say on my two 2015 KX450's I had to replace the drivetrain at about 15-20 hours. My 2017 KTM 450 XCF drivetrain lasted almost 160 hours and my 2018 is at 130 hours and still looking good. I think my brake pads on my last KTM were stock when I sold it(185 hours). Kawi I had to replace them at about 140 hours. 2017 KTM had a wheel bearing go out at 165 hours and I replaced the fork bushings twice. 2018 has had ZERO issues, again at 130 hours. I change the oil every big ride(80 miles) or two small rides. Kawi's were reliable too and I still have one of them as my snowbike.
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