FC 350 or FC450 for vet A class racing?

chasetwo79
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chasetwo79
Edited Date/Time 3/23/2020 6:15am
Hi All!

I know there are some great threads on 350s on the board here, I’ve spent the better part of the last week checking them all out but I still wanted to get some feedback on a couple specific questions.

I have the chance to grab a brand new 2019 350 or 450 and I’m torn on what direction would be best.

I’m a former A/pro am class rider who is just coming back off almost 10 years off the bike. I picked up my dads 2015 fc450 and have put about 25 hours on it. I raced the early crf450s and have always rode a couple of hours here and there on my dad’s 450s so I am super aware of the pros and cons of a 450. I can still make them go really fast for a 36 year old vet rider, but I do have trouble with putting in 20 minute motos on them and I am concerned that I’ll spend the next few months fighting it and not getting enough seat time in to actually enjoy myself and increase my speed consistently.

That said I’m a 200-205 pound, 6 ft tall Vet expert rider and I plan on racing this fall at some OTHG stuff plus some of the bigger vet races.

My questions though - is the 350 enough bike at the Vet Expert level to compete if you are say 200 pounds? I know I’ll have to rev the shit out of it, that’s kinda the appeal for this former two stroke kid, but will I miss my 450 and just be mad I didn’t get one or will I really notice the ability to ride faster for longer like some say about the 350? Will it pull my 200 pound self around fast enough to hang with the 450 guys (besides off the start)?

Any real insight would be greatly appreciated as I’m picking up the new bike next week. Help me out and then I’ll post what I buy and get a bike build thread going.

Thanks in advance for any help!!!
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 3/9/2020 9:41pm
3/9/2020 9:41pm Edited Date/Time 3/9/2020 9:42pm
Rockstar Edition FTW! Unless your last name is Sipes.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/9/2020 9:43pm
3/9/2020 9:43pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Rockstar Edition FTW! Unless your last name is Sipes.
He did kill it this weekend. I actually grew up racing with him in the South East. He has always hauled the mail...

Thanks for the vote!
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 3/9/2020 9:59pm
3/9/2020 9:59pm
450 since you are on the bigger side and an expert, you'll do fantastic
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 3/9/2020 10:00pm
3/9/2020 10:00pm
The fc450 is such a smooth and easy to ride engine. My kid was 11 when he rode mine and apart from over jumping everything, he was fine lol
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/9/2020 10:03pm
3/9/2020 10:03pm
Bruce372 wrote:
The fc450 is such a smooth and easy to ride engine. My kid was 11 when he rode mine and apart from over jumping everything, he...
The fc450 is such a smooth and easy to ride engine. My kid was 11 when he rode mine and apart from over jumping everything, he was fine lol
Thanks for the feedback! Like I said, I have been riding a 2015 fc450 and I’m just ready to upgrade and start racing again for the first time in a decade. I’ve heard amazing things about the current platform and I’m guessing they’ve made some HUGE strides since the 2015 version...
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Bruce372 3/9/2020 10:10pm
3/9/2020 10:10pm
Imagine the weight of a 250 2stroke with a super smooth electric start engine, smooth clutch and amazing brakes.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/9/2020 10:21pm
3/9/2020 10:21pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Imagine the weight of a 250 2stroke with a super smooth electric start engine, smooth clutch and amazing brakes.
Yeah my 2015 has electric start and it’s amazing but now that I’m getting back to speed I want a newer bike and I found a great deal on the 2019 and I know they aren’t much different than the 2020.

Are you running the air forks or did you go with a B or A kit?
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Chris99Flannery 3/10/2020 12:47am
3/10/2020 12:47am
Had a 350 went back to a 450. Long motos the 450 is easier to ride faster. The 350 you lose a touch out of every corner when tired against a 450.
Like a 125 v 250f
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T-Fish
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T-Fish 3/10/2020 1:42am
3/10/2020 1:42am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2020 1:44am
My vote is for the 350. Last summer I had a ‘17.5 Factory Edition 250, an ‘18 350SXF, and a ‘17.5 Factory Edition 450 (this is apples to apples as far as years go) at the same time. Only the 350 remains of those three. Your ability level is much greater than mine is, so my reasons for preferring the 350 over the others may be different than what your thoughts would be. For me, the 450 felt heavy and I simply couldn’t ride it hard or aggressive. This isn’t me saying I can ride the 350 with a lot of aggression, but I could ride it much harder than the 450 and not get worn out doing so. My recommendation would be to get a 350, a Vortex from Twisted Development and call it a day.
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crowe176
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crowe176 3/10/2020 2:34am
3/10/2020 2:34am
I went from vet A to 7 years off to a 350 and then back to a 450. The 350 was harder to ride fast for longer moto’s for me. I felt like I needed to be in much better shape to wring a 350 out. I missed the low end lug of the 450. BUUUT, my 350 had 4CS and that was probably 50% of the problem. The 350 sounded perfect to me at first, but after I hopped on a friends 450, the 350 was gone the next weekend.

I wish I’d ridden a 350 with a good AER setup, that might have kept me on one.
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AH387
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AH387 3/10/2020 5:14am
3/10/2020 5:14am
If you like to rev, get the 350. I don't get tired from the 350 at all, but the added weight/inertia feel of a 450 along with the instant torque end up taking it's toll on me. I feel like I can move the 350 around more and be aggressive on it. Obviously you probably can handle a 450 no problem, being a former A-rider (I'm Vet Int) but it comes down to preference, in my opinion. Both great bikes.
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Motogoof
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Motogoof 3/10/2020 5:51am
3/10/2020 5:51am
In the last six years I have had two 350s and two 450s. Both sizes have their charms and I really enjoy riding both of them. I ride +50 and +40 expert. The 350 absolutely feels like it turns better and feels lighter especially in the air. Even though they are the same weight.You do have to ride the 350 harder but this is one of its charms and I enjoy riding like this. The only thing I don’t like about the 350 is often you have to rev it to the point where now the suspension doesn’t work as it should in rough conditions. Also one of the great things about the 350 is you can stretch gears out forever. I honestly think the 350 is the closest 4 stroke there is to actually riding a two-stroke. I really like the extra bottom the 450 has in that works well in rough conditions when you can just up shift and chug through the bumps. I also find unlike most guys here,that the 450 is less tiring to ride. The 350 requires a more aggressive style which tires me out a little quicker. Often everyone says the 450 is too much but it’s also a lot easier ( and cheaper)to make a 450 slower than it is a 350 faster. I currently have a 2019 Ktm 450 and often ride in map one which is the soft map. The one thing that I noticed jumping back-and-forth between the two is when I ride the 350 it feels like I Have been cruising on the 450 but on the 350 I have to charge and isn’t that what motocross is really all about. I say give the 350 a try. If it’s not for you you can always let it go and pick up another deal on a non-current 450.
Good luck
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crowe176
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crowe176 3/10/2020 6:01am
3/10/2020 6:01am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2020 6:04am
Motogoof wrote:
In the last six years I have had two 350s and two 450s. Both sizes have their charms and I really enjoy riding both of them...
In the last six years I have had two 350s and two 450s. Both sizes have their charms and I really enjoy riding both of them. I ride +50 and +40 expert. The 350 absolutely feels like it turns better and feels lighter especially in the air. Even though they are the same weight.You do have to ride the 350 harder but this is one of its charms and I enjoy riding like this. The only thing I don’t like about the 350 is often you have to rev it to the point where now the suspension doesn’t work as it should in rough conditions. Also one of the great things about the 350 is you can stretch gears out forever. I honestly think the 350 is the closest 4 stroke there is to actually riding a two-stroke. I really like the extra bottom the 450 has in that works well in rough conditions when you can just up shift and chug through the bumps. I also find unlike most guys here,that the 450 is less tiring to ride. The 350 requires a more aggressive style which tires me out a little quicker. Often everyone says the 450 is too much but it’s also a lot easier ( and cheaper)to make a 450 slower than it is a 350 faster. I currently have a 2019 Ktm 450 and often ride in map one which is the soft map. The one thing that I noticed jumping back-and-forth between the two is when I ride the 350 it feels like I Have been cruising on the 450 but on the 350 I have to charge and isn’t that what motocross is really all about. I say give the 350 a try. If it’s not for you you can always let it go and pick up another deal on a non-current 450.
Good luck
I’m with you.

Most of the tracks I ride are national style deep disc’ed loam and sand (think Redbud), with very rutty turns. I really had to work hard to flow on those tracks where as the 450 was a lot less work. If I rode harder west coast style tracks with sweepers where you could stay pinned, I’d be on a 350 all day, and maybe even fulfill my dream of getting a 150.

The “light” feeling of the 350 I miss a lot. But the 450 allows me to keep a good pace/flow longer.
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Squirrelings 3/10/2020 6:09am
3/10/2020 6:09am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2020 6:10am
I haven’t ridden a 350, but I say 450 without a doubt if you think you’ll be competitive in +30A. At that size you need the power. Just put in the time doing motos to get where you need to be physically. It’ll help no matter what you are riding.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/10/2020 10:28am
3/10/2020 10:28am
Motogoof wrote:
In the last six years I have had two 350s and two 450s. Both sizes have their charms and I really enjoy riding both of them...
In the last six years I have had two 350s and two 450s. Both sizes have their charms and I really enjoy riding both of them. I ride +50 and +40 expert. The 350 absolutely feels like it turns better and feels lighter especially in the air. Even though they are the same weight.You do have to ride the 350 harder but this is one of its charms and I enjoy riding like this. The only thing I don’t like about the 350 is often you have to rev it to the point where now the suspension doesn’t work as it should in rough conditions. Also one of the great things about the 350 is you can stretch gears out forever. I honestly think the 350 is the closest 4 stroke there is to actually riding a two-stroke. I really like the extra bottom the 450 has in that works well in rough conditions when you can just up shift and chug through the bumps. I also find unlike most guys here,that the 450 is less tiring to ride. The 350 requires a more aggressive style which tires me out a little quicker. Often everyone says the 450 is too much but it’s also a lot easier ( and cheaper)to make a 450 slower than it is a 350 faster. I currently have a 2019 Ktm 450 and often ride in map one which is the soft map. The one thing that I noticed jumping back-and-forth between the two is when I ride the 350 it feels like I Have been cruising on the 450 but on the 350 I have to charge and isn’t that what motocross is really all about. I say give the 350 a try. If it’s not for you you can always let it go and pick up another deal on a non-current 450.
Good luck
crowe176 wrote:
I’m with you. Most of the tracks I ride are national style deep disc’ed loam and sand (think Redbud), with very rutty turns. I really had...
I’m with you.

Most of the tracks I ride are national style deep disc’ed loam and sand (think Redbud), with very rutty turns. I really had to work hard to flow on those tracks where as the 450 was a lot less work. If I rode harder west coast style tracks with sweepers where you could stay pinned, I’d be on a 350 all day, and maybe even fulfill my dream of getting a 150.

The “light” feeling of the 350 I miss a lot. But the 450 allows me to keep a good pace/flow longer.
Thanks for the feedback, I grew up racing in Florida so I get the sand stuff. Now I live in NorCal and ride at All the tracks up here plus I go down to SoCal sometimes. Other than Hangtown and Glen Helen, I cant think of a track that I have ridden where I use a lot of my 450. Hence the thought of a 350...
AH387
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AH387 3/10/2020 10:42am
3/10/2020 10:42am
chasetwo79 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, I grew up racing in Florida so I get the sand stuff. Now I live in NorCal and ride at All the...
Thanks for the feedback, I grew up racing in Florida so I get the sand stuff. Now I live in NorCal and ride at All the tracks up here plus I go down to SoCal sometimes. Other than Hangtown and Glen Helen, I cant think of a track that I have ridden where I use a lot of my 450. Hence the thought of a 350...
Honestly, to me, when you get the 350 wound up it actually feels as fast as a 450, in a way. Just because it just revs for what seems like forever. Granted, it probably isn't and the window is higher up in the curve, but an A-rider can keep a 350 singing and really keep that bike in the sweet spot. I really think the right rider would benefit from the positives and not really feel the negatives. I think most of the people who think a 350 is out-gunned either haven't ridden one or just don't fit the riding style that a 350 caters to.
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Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 3/10/2020 11:24am
3/10/2020 11:24am
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the line on a 350. Terry Bostard, Mr. Cardiel, the Laws, Mr. Blair, etc are all no joke on a bike. It's still only 223-ish dry, so it's not gonna wear you out as fast as a 245 lb pig will. I love my FC350 but I'm not racing Expert class.

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Asselstine 3/10/2020 11:32am
3/10/2020 11:32am
The fast vet guy's I know that dropped down to 350s all said they liked them but all of them bumped back up to 450s.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/10/2020 11:55am
3/10/2020 11:55am
Hammer 663s wrote:
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the...
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the line on a 350. Terry Bostard, Mr. Cardiel, the Laws, Mr. Blair, etc are all no joke on a bike. It's still only 223-ish dry, so it's not gonna wear you out as fast as a 245 lb pig will. I love my FC350 but I'm not racing Expert class.

Hammer 663s
This is great feedback. Thanks! I grew up racing in the southeast so the scene out here is all new to me which makes it so exciting! I was going to grab a 2020 but the discount coupled with the minimal platform changed make the 2019 a great deal and hard to pass up. Thanks again!
chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/10/2020 11:55am
3/10/2020 11:55am
Asselstine wrote:
The fast vet guy's I know that dropped down to 350s all said they liked them but all of them bumped back up to 450s.
I’m worried this would happen to me as the 450 never feels too big for me, I just get a little more tired on it in my 30s old age... lol. Thanks for the feedback!!!!
chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/10/2020 11:58am
3/10/2020 11:58am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2020 11:59am
chasetwo79 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, I grew up racing in Florida so I get the sand stuff. Now I live in NorCal and ride at All the...
Thanks for the feedback, I grew up racing in Florida so I get the sand stuff. Now I live in NorCal and ride at All the tracks up here plus I go down to SoCal sometimes. Other than Hangtown and Glen Helen, I cant think of a track that I have ridden where I use a lot of my 450. Hence the thought of a 350...
AH387 wrote:
Honestly, to me, when you get the 350 wound up it actually feels as fast as a 450, in a way. Just because it just revs...
Honestly, to me, when you get the 350 wound up it actually feels as fast as a 450, in a way. Just because it just revs for what seems like forever. Granted, it probably isn't and the window is higher up in the curve, but an A-rider can keep a 350 singing and really keep that bike in the sweet spot. I really think the right rider would benefit from the positives and not really feel the negatives. I think most of the people who think a 350 is out-gunned either haven't ridden one or just don't fit the riding style that a 350 caters to.
This is what interests me about the 350. I was a strong 250f rider in my early 20s when I weighed like 175. But I kept growing and had to move up to 450s. I also raced 125 and 250 two strokes so I can totally ride a bike at high RPMs. At this point I still want to go fast, but fun is also a top priority so hence the thread and feedback hunt.

Thanks for help!
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Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 3/10/2020 12:05pm
3/10/2020 12:05pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the...
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the line on a 350. Terry Bostard, Mr. Cardiel, the Laws, Mr. Blair, etc are all no joke on a bike. It's still only 223-ish dry, so it's not gonna wear you out as fast as a 245 lb pig will. I love my FC350 but I'm not racing Expert class.

Hammer 663s
chasetwo79 wrote:
This is great feedback. Thanks! I grew up racing in the southeast so the scene out here is all new to me which makes it so...
This is great feedback. Thanks! I grew up racing in the southeast so the scene out here is all new to me which makes it so exciting! I was going to grab a 2020 but the discount coupled with the minimal platform changed make the 2019 a great deal and hard to pass up. Thanks again!
OTHG is a great group. I really miss racing with them. You can race every other weekend from January till November all over California. Some epic tracks, people, and parties. Long haul to some of them from Truckee tho.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/10/2020 12:16pm
3/10/2020 12:16pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the...
Yeah, at 200 lbs you'll want the FC450 cause the OTHG Expert and Master class guys are fast, and they will eat you up off the line on a 350. Terry Bostard, Mr. Cardiel, the Laws, Mr. Blair, etc are all no joke on a bike. It's still only 223-ish dry, so it's not gonna wear you out as fast as a 245 lb pig will. I love my FC350 but I'm not racing Expert class.

Hammer 663s
chasetwo79 wrote:
This is great feedback. Thanks! I grew up racing in the southeast so the scene out here is all new to me which makes it so...
This is great feedback. Thanks! I grew up racing in the southeast so the scene out here is all new to me which makes it so exciting! I was going to grab a 2020 but the discount coupled with the minimal platform changed make the 2019 a great deal and hard to pass up. Thanks again!
Hammer 663s wrote:
OTHG is a great group. I really miss racing with them. You can race every other weekend from January till November all over California. Some epic...
OTHG is a great group. I really miss racing with them. You can race every other weekend from January till November all over California. Some epic tracks, people, and parties. Long haul to some of them from Truckee tho.
Yeah I’m pumped. The vet scene here is part of why I want to get back into racing. I drive to SF all the time for work and I work remotely, so I don’t mind the 1.5 hour drive to Hangtown, E street, Riverfront, MMX etc. even Argyle is just at 2 hours. Also; another track outside of Reno which is an hour away only has recently opened up. So I try and ride 6-8 times a month at minimum lately. I will be riding down in SoCal next week actually too, probably at State Fair since it’s closest to where I’ll be. I was lucky enough to hit Milestone back in November before it closed which was life bucket list type stuff. Even though I grew up in Florida, which has an amazing scene, and my parents owned a track for 25 years, I am still sort of star struck at all the Cali tracks!
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mx510
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mx510 3/10/2020 12:27pm
3/10/2020 12:27pm
I am a A/B level rider that weighs 210 pounds. I just bought a left over 2019 350 and love it. Its fun to be able to ride a bike super aggressive again rather than the relaxed style a 450 produces. I don't regret buying the 350 at all. The bike has PLENTY of power to holeshot and run right next 450s, you just have to ride them a little different.
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Pirate421
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Pirate421 3/10/2020 12:49pm
3/10/2020 12:49pm
I can’t imagine anyone really that would need more power than a 350. I loved my 2017. It was super fast and felt so light. Such a fun bike and the 2020 is even better suspension wise. I would think as an A rider you would be at less of a disadvantage on a 350 because you’re a good rider already and don’t need to rely on hp to make up for technique. If at least try and get a ride on one before you buy.
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chasetwo79
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chasetwo79 3/10/2020 12:52pm
3/10/2020 12:52pm
mx510 wrote:
I am a A/B level rider that weighs 210 pounds. I just bought a left over 2019 350 and love it. Its fun to be able...
I am a A/B level rider that weighs 210 pounds. I just bought a left over 2019 350 and love it. Its fun to be able to ride a bike super aggressive again rather than the relaxed style a 450 produces. I don't regret buying the 350 at all. The bike has PLENTY of power to holeshot and run right next 450s, you just have to ride them a little different.
Thanks for the feedback! You’re making it hard! This was my exact thought on the 350. Something about being able to charge instead of managing the speed sounds appealing to me. I had my best results ever on 250fs and that was back when they were steaming piles still trying to figure it all out. I used to frequently race my 250f against 450s at local pro races and stay competitive even at like 175 pounds so I figured maybe the 350 would be the same but with a little more grunt.

Did you have a 450 prior to moving down? If so, you honestly feel you can ride it longer than the 450?
mx510
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mx510 3/10/2020 1:05pm
3/10/2020 1:05pm
chasetwo79 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! You’re making it hard! This was my exact thought on the 350. Something about being able to charge instead of managing the...
Thanks for the feedback! You’re making it hard! This was my exact thought on the 350. Something about being able to charge instead of managing the speed sounds appealing to me. I had my best results ever on 250fs and that was back when they were steaming piles still trying to figure it all out. I used to frequently race my 250f against 450s at local pro races and stay competitive even at like 175 pounds so I figured maybe the 350 would be the same but with a little more grunt.

Did you have a 450 prior to moving down? If so, you honestly feel you can ride it longer than the 450?
I have lots of 450 experience. I have owned 10 450s, with my last 450 being a 2015 KX. My last bike was a TX300, so it probably made the transition a little easier, that said, I still don't miss my 450. I can ride the 350 longer and harder than a 450. I also feel a little safer on it, as when things go bad I feel like its easier to bring the 350 back around. If you are primarily riding large outdoor moto tracks, you can still use 3rd gear in a lot of turns. The bike has plenty of power, its just situated different.
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AH387
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AH387 3/10/2020 1:06pm
3/10/2020 1:06pm
chasetwo79 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! You’re making it hard! This was my exact thought on the 350. Something about being able to charge instead of managing the...
Thanks for the feedback! You’re making it hard! This was my exact thought on the 350. Something about being able to charge instead of managing the speed sounds appealing to me. I had my best results ever on 250fs and that was back when they were steaming piles still trying to figure it all out. I used to frequently race my 250f against 450s at local pro races and stay competitive even at like 175 pounds so I figured maybe the 350 would be the same but with a little more grunt.

Did you have a 450 prior to moving down? If so, you honestly feel you can ride it longer than the 450?
I had a YZ250F before my 350 and honestly the 350 has way more power from mid and up, than the YZF. It's weird because since the low end is soft (compared to like a 450), you can be super aggressive but when you are in the meat of the power, it actually kinda can catch you by surprise. If you do go with the 19 350, I would for sure get the vented side panel that the 20s come with. Also, I went up 1 tooth in the rear, so maybe that might give you some more snap. Other than that, just let it rip.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 3/10/2020 1:14pm
3/10/2020 1:14pm
I think the 350 with a vortex would close the gap quite a bit and even bring out its advantages even more.
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Falcon
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Falcon 3/10/2020 1:16pm
3/10/2020 1:16pm
Juuuuuuust going to play a little 2-stroke Taliban's advocate here and throw it out there....
You're not sure about a 450,
You remember back to your 2-stroke days,
You are considering a 350,

Why not a TC250? Not as fast as a 450, but arguably more so than a 350F, and lighter to boot. You have the skills, so the whole "harder to ride" claim goes out the window.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.
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