2019 AMA Supercross Purse- PATHETIC

1/8/2019 10:38am
While this is a very valid question, that's been asked for at least 20 years, all this debate over numbers everyone is pulling out of their buttholes is hilarious! Very entertaining thread. I completely agree with the question and passion of the OP. I'm comfortable enough to say I don't know the answer. Fact is the series is run by a for profit "entertainment" company. This is what promoters do. Hire independent contractors and put on a show. They don't share our passion and logic for the sport.
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1/8/2019 10:53am
Let's not forget racing itself is a promotional tool for manufacturers. I agree that the purses should be aligned with any other motorsport, but nobody would be involved if there wasn't something in it for them. The teams have a marketing budget and the riders that are lucky enough to get those rides are good to go. Obviously the privateers are the ones eating the D here. But then the mathematician that keeps asking everyone FOR FIGURES would say they additional revenue streams too, so it's a pointless arguement.
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kkawboy14
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1/8/2019 11:01am
Let's not forget racing itself is a promotional tool for manufacturers. I agree that the purses should be aligned with any other motorsport, but nobody would...
Let's not forget racing itself is a promotional tool for manufacturers. I agree that the purses should be aligned with any other motorsport, but nobody would be involved if there wasn't something in it for them. The teams have a marketing budget and the riders that are lucky enough to get those rides are good to go. Obviously the privateers are the ones eating the D here. But then the mathematician that keeps asking everyone FOR FIGURES would say they additional revenue streams too, so it's a pointless arguement.
The Pro riders I know that are back marker Privateers make a lot of money teaching kids mx. If they didn’t hold a Pro License they wouldn’t command the $2000-$4000 cash for the weekend for a group of kids.

Many Privateers are given stuff from sponsors that they can sell, say Bell gives you 10 helmets, you keep 2 and sell 8 to your buddies.

There are a number of ways Pros can make money outside of the Purse Money that most people don’t realize.

I do think there are some simple things Field can do to help them get outside sponsors tho. Have a little pop up that shows sponsors when a rider is on the screen (1example)
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barnett468
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1/8/2019 11:03am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 11:07am
drt410 wrote:
12,000 for 1st is $192,000 possible over the 16 rounds. Thats not including contingency, bonus from your team, and your team salary/sponsorships.
So it's simple then, all someone has to do is get first place every time to make the big bucks. Why the fk didn't the rest of us figure that out?


.
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The Shop

1/8/2019 11:05am
Let's not forget racing itself is a promotional tool for manufacturers. I agree that the purses should be aligned with any other motorsport, but nobody would...
Let's not forget racing itself is a promotional tool for manufacturers. I agree that the purses should be aligned with any other motorsport, but nobody would be involved if there wasn't something in it for them. The teams have a marketing budget and the riders that are lucky enough to get those rides are good to go. Obviously the privateers are the ones eating the D here. But then the mathematician that keeps asking everyone FOR FIGURES would say they additional revenue streams too, so it's a pointless arguement.
kkawboy14 wrote:
The Pro riders I know that are back marker Privateers make a lot of money teaching kids mx. If they didn’t hold a Pro License they...
The Pro riders I know that are back marker Privateers make a lot of money teaching kids mx. If they didn’t hold a Pro License they wouldn’t command the $2000-$4000 cash for the weekend for a group of kids.

Many Privateers are given stuff from sponsors that they can sell, say Bell gives you 10 helmets, you keep 2 and sell 8 to your buddies.

There are a number of ways Pros can make money outside of the Purse Money that most people don’t realize.

I do think there are some simple things Field can do to help them get outside sponsors tho. Have a little pop up that shows sponsors when a rider is on the screen (1example)
Yup, agreed. If any of us were able to fix it, we wouldn't be arguing about it with jabroni's like us on here.

I like your idea of Feld finding ways to market the privateers. At least from what Matthes has said, seems like conflict of sponsorship is a never ending battle with Feld.
1/8/2019 11:16am
This has been a debatable topic for the past 25+ years and until the rider's decide to stick together and take a stand on things, nothing will ever change!

For the record, the guy from NBC Gold was on Pulp MX and it was said their TV package deal was right in the neighborhood of 10 million...did nobody catch that?

Also, in the AMA rule book, we believe it states something along the lines that says the riders are not allowed to start a union. Why would they put such a rule in their rule book? Should it not just say "we are allowed to fuck you and you are not allowed to do anything about it"

If that is not within the current rule book, feel free to correct / clear that up.
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newmann
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1/8/2019 11:21am
Did you hear about the big name rider that got hurt? I did, but I ain't telling.

Do you know Felds numbers? I do, but I ain't telling.

At least we ALL agree that the payout is dismal, pathetic as OP pointed out.

About those seat prices to watch the races? I haven't had one less than about 75 bucks for the past decade or more. Better to just get a group of friends and family together and rent a suite. With tips to the person manning your suite, about $120.00 per person which includes food, drinks, snacks, alcohol, private restroom and a lounge area.
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1/8/2019 11:28am
I used idiot math, based on ratings from last years FS1 SX coverage ratings, multiplied by the NBC app fee, and came up with almost $20m in revenue.
RichieW13
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1/8/2019 12:36pm
SPYGUY wrote:
The fact is, if the riders keep showing up then the purse is either acceptable or irrelevant. Either way, I'm not sure why we, as fans...
The fact is, if the riders keep showing up then the purse is either acceptable or irrelevant. Either way, I'm not sure why we, as fans, should worry so much about it.
As fans, the only way we might be affected is if there are some good riders out there who might be capable of making main events, but can't get sponsorships and don't have the money to race the series. If the purses were larger, these guys might be racing.

But that's just a hypothetical.
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RichieW13
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1/8/2019 12:43pm
colintrax wrote:
Also it looks like the upper end of a renting a stadium is $100K a day including security. We'll just assume that's what feld pays everyday...
Also it looks like the upper end of a renting a stadium is $100K a day including security. We'll just assume that's what feld pays everyday for the entire week they rent it out. Or 700K a race. So just under $12 mill to rent the stadiums and have security all year. That still leaves over $12mill to pay salaries, transport equipment, pay insurance, ect.
Does Feld only use the stadium for a week, or is it closer to two weeks? One week to move the dirt in and build the track, and another 3-4 days to clean up?
biscuit11
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1/8/2019 1:13pm
Ive raced go karts several times for $10,000 to win these guys deserve waaaaay more... Nascar teams formed their own union, also i know the pro bmx riders had an issue with UCI a few yrs back over the tracks getting too crazy and had a protest. It would take everyone on the same page for anything to change.
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Looby321
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1/8/2019 1:22pm
Wow, that is fuckin weak. I don’t even wanna know what Feld is grossing.
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drt410
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1/8/2019 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 1:39pm
drt410 wrote:
12,000 for 1st is $192,000 possible over the 16 rounds. Thats not including contingency, bonus from your team, and your team salary/sponsorships.
barnett468 wrote:
So it's simple then, all someone has to do is get first place every time to make the big bucks. Why the fk didn't the rest...
So it's simple then, all someone has to do is get first place every time to make the big bucks. Why the fk didn't the rest of us figure that out?


.
Did I say its simple? Im saying that potentially they have x amount to make and it goes down for each position obviously. It exists though and that number is the max then its adjusted. Someone like Dungey or even Ando last year who podiums every race will make a lot of money but you can still make $32,000 for the year by getting last place at every race... thats not bad.

So 1st every race makes almost 200k which is a lot on top of everything else. A solid season of podiums is still 150k still good and getting last at every single race is 32k... still good. That was my point I dont get why people r such cock suckers on this forum thats y so many people just screw around here cuz its not worth even trying to make any type of valid argument whatsoever so why do it if u just get snarky dick clap backs whenever u do anyways...
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RichieW13
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1/8/2019 1:32pm
Looby321 wrote:
Wow, that is fuckin weak. I don’t even wanna know what Feld is grossing.
The gross is irrelevant.
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1/8/2019 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 1:51pm
Why should riders care how much Feld is supposed to make? Why should Feld Care how much a rider makes from them? A rising tide and...
Why should riders care how much Feld is supposed to make? Why should Feld Care how much a rider makes from them? A rising tide and whatever happens happens. We get it all here, but best of luck to the jester.
willie838 wrote:
i love this scary mentality you hear spouted out of an under informed, highly privileged roughly 18 year old. who in the fuck are you to...
i love this scary mentality you hear spouted out of an under informed, highly privileged roughly 18 year old.

who in the fuck are you to say how much anyone is allowed to make?



--

obviously the purses are crazy out of whack, there are options to help with this situation.


sitting around and debating what a company is allowed to make is not one such option.

Who said anything about limiting earning potential? My questions are philosophical, and not meant to be easily answered.

The only real statement I made was about clowns making rich people richer and wishing them luck. Can't say I see any logical flaw in that.

Maybe it sounds so scary to you because it's true.
MPJC
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1/8/2019 1:59pm
EngIceDave wrote:
Ok, $4M over 16 events, right? $250,000 per event OK, my bad So, again, what's the breakdown and what's Feld allowed to make per event? What's...
Ok, $4M over 16 events, right?

$250,000 per event

OK, my bad

So, again, what's the breakdown and what's Feld allowed to make per event?
What's the cap?
The idea of capping earnings at some dollar figure is a terrible idea. If everything above X goes to someone else, Feld has no incentive to make more than X. What makes more sense is a profit sharing agreement where Feld agrees to index payouts to profits, based on an agreed upon formula for determining what counts as profit (e.g. if profits increase by 20%, so do purses). This provides incentive for everyone to grow the sport. I have no concept of what any of those numbers would look like, but I do know that the riders currently are in no position to negotiate any such agreement. The purses do look pathetic, but are riders actually complaining that they are being treated unfairly (this is not rhetorical - I actually am interested in knowing)?
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1/8/2019 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 2:06pm
The purse is pathetic.

Feld can afford monster cup - and that purse would be acceptable IMHO year long....

Matthes has said when feld BOUGHT sx - years and years ago - the numbers of profit were staggering. It's likely far more profitable now.

The WPS/FLY deal this year for a 10 year locked in deal - wasn't cheap. If monster is a larger title sponsor then WPS - i'd be it's 4 million a year or more for monster alone (10 million a year wouldn't surprised me - at 1 million in stadium fans a year - that's 10 bucks an in person fan - plus the pit pass aspect with a monster can is practically 500k back in their pocket immediately)


This is not easily possible or solved in a way that makes it "fair" but the OEMS should pay into the purse kitty rather than up front to the riders - and let some of it be divided out that way on performance.

Almost like a salary cap concept plus a buy in for the teams to go racing.



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drt410
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1/8/2019 2:03pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 2:06pm
Getting last place at every single event is $32,000/year. 1st at every race is $192k. Then everything else falls between there. You should be able to *id hope- figure it out yourself (barnett468) that lots of good results is closer to the high end, lots of bad results fall towards the bottom of that pay scale. Imo thats reasonable.
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Rabbit
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1/8/2019 2:11pm
This has been a debatable topic for the past 25+ years and until the rider's decide to stick together and take a stand on things, nothing...
This has been a debatable topic for the past 25+ years and until the rider's decide to stick together and take a stand on things, nothing will ever change!

For the record, the guy from NBC Gold was on Pulp MX and it was said their TV package deal was right in the neighborhood of 10 million...did nobody catch that?

Also, in the AMA rule book, we believe it states something along the lines that says the riders are not allowed to start a union. Why would they put such a rule in their rule book? Should it not just say "we are allowed to fuck you and you are not allowed to do anything about it"

If that is not within the current rule book, feel free to correct / clear that up.
Obviously you did not catch it either. The Pulp Guest was not from NBC Gold, he is a motorsports journalist giving his educated guess on what NBC Sports paid for the rights to televise the event.

And provide a link/screen shot/page number in the rule book that says the riders cannot organize.
Question
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1/8/2019 3:13pm
colintrax wrote:
Also it looks like the upper end of a renting a stadium is $100K a day including security. We'll just assume that's what feld pays everyday...
Also it looks like the upper end of a renting a stadium is $100K a day including security. We'll just assume that's what feld pays everyday for the entire week they rent it out. Or 700K a race. So just under $12 mill to rent the stadiums and have security all year. That still leaves over $12mill to pay salaries, transport equipment, pay insurance, ect.
RichieW13 wrote:
Does Feld only use the stadium for a week, or is it closer to two weeks? One week to move the dirt in and build the...
Does Feld only use the stadium for a week, or is it closer to two weeks? One week to move the dirt in and build the track, and another 3-4 days to clean up?
I think we are on something important.

As I said the overall cost of racing could be much lower, by optimizing logistics as a "tour", and many members talked about rules optimization (tires and suspensions). It is a collective and constructive thinking that could actually really improve quite everything and I am sure that if a solution could be well presented to save a few days or a week of stadium rent more money could go to the privateers as well as health insurances (since I heard here that cost in case of injuries is crazy high in the us).

It is small things, but it can have a real impact even at the local level. Nowadays, it is not only about the internet generation, even bad ass parents are frightened by injuries, and the cost, and for those who are fast the cost to make it pro have become way too high vs. the reward, which is why, for instance, most up and coming pros in europe are from wealthy family, sponsor backing or from the industry. All the little things that make the base eroding or increasing.
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barnett468
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1/8/2019 4:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 4:18pm
drt410 wrote:
Getting last place at every single event is $32,000/year. 1st at every race is $192k. Then everything else falls between there. You should be able to...
Getting last place at every single event is $32,000/year. 1st at every race is $192k. Then everything else falls between there. You should be able to *id hope- figure it out yourself (barnett468) that lots of good results is closer to the high end, lots of bad results fall towards the bottom of that pay scale. Imo thats reasonable.
"Getting last place at every single event is $32,000/year. 1st at every race is $192k.

...lots of good results is closer to the high end, lots of bad results fall towards the bottom of that pay scale."


Wow, what an amazing feat of 3rd grade math and reasoning!



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barnett468
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1/8/2019 4:27pm
drt410 wrote:
Did I say its simple? Im saying that potentially they have x amount to make and it goes down for each position obviously. It exists though...
Did I say its simple? Im saying that potentially they have x amount to make and it goes down for each position obviously. It exists though and that number is the max then its adjusted. Someone like Dungey or even Ando last year who podiums every race will make a lot of money but you can still make $32,000 for the year by getting last place at every race... thats not bad.

So 1st every race makes almost 200k which is a lot on top of everything else. A solid season of podiums is still 150k still good and getting last at every single race is 32k... still good. That was my point I dont get why people r such cock suckers on this forum thats y so many people just screw around here cuz its not worth even trying to make any type of valid argument whatsoever so why do it if u just get snarky dick clap backs whenever u do anyways...
"...people r such cock suckers on this forum... ...so... ...just get snarky dick clap backs whenever u do anyways..."

Oh my!


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drt410
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1/8/2019 6:25pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 6:33pm
Trying to prove ur not a cock sucker by being a cock sucker. Bold strategy cotton..
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barnett468
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1/8/2019 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 6:45pm
drt410 wrote:
Trying to prove ur not a cock sucker by being a cock sucker. Bold strategy cotton..
"cock sucker... ...cock sucker."

ummm...you seem to have that phrase on your mind quite a bit, so perhaps you should ask a therapist about it to see if you might have some deep rooted, repressed, latent, non heterosexual tendencies. Coming out of the closet (if you can find the key) seems to be the cool, and trendy thing thing to do these days, so don't be afraid, Kaitlin Jenner will support your decision!










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piscokid
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1/8/2019 6:55pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 6:56pm
The payout sucks, yet MTF, ClubMX and other training facilities are packed with full timers grinding away for a shot at the big time!
Brad460
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1/8/2019 7:08pm
Union
Yeah...that would be great. When the riders don’t get what they want they could all slow down...like rolling over all the jumps..never get out of 1st gear all day..

If a team fires a rider, the rider could file a grievance and the team would be forced to keep him and give him back pay.

Heck..if they get really pissed the riders could just hide engine parts so their bikes can’t be built....so then no one on the starting line...

Next thing you know the riders will be hiding in the top of the trailer taking a nap when their supposed to be racing..

Laughing






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Johnny Depp
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1/8/2019 7:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 7:24pm
You get what you negotiate.

Since rider contracts prevent them no-showing, only a top rider including the demand incorporated as part of his factory contract (with an agent negotiating terms) could pull it off (perhaps for the benefit of all?).

James, the Ryan's, Chad, Ricky, Jeremy etc. (multi time champs) are the ONLY ones with enough stroke to pull it off, and only in their prime when the factory contract comes up.

I'd guess Dungey coming out of retirement could command $250-500k per win in purse from Feld.
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1/8/2019 7:41pm
JM485 wrote:
Don't forget the astronomic amount of money they're going to make off their amateur days this year. I had a decent crew ready to come watch...
Don't forget the astronomic amount of money they're going to make off their amateur days this year. I had a decent crew ready to come watch Sunday, then found out those ass clowns want $25 just to come in and watch a bunch of embarrassingly bad amateurs like myself.Laughing Feld can EABOD.
I’d pay $25 to come back next day and watch some kids shred it up.
1/8/2019 7:44pm
Union
Brad460 wrote:
Yeah...that would be great. When the riders don’t get what they want they could all slow down...like rolling over all the jumps..never get out of 1st...
Yeah...that would be great. When the riders don’t get what they want they could all slow down...like rolling over all the jumps..never get out of 1st gear all day..

If a team fires a rider, the rider could file a grievance and the team would be forced to keep him and give him back pay.

Heck..if they get really pissed the riders could just hide engine parts so their bikes can’t be built....so then no one on the starting line...

Next thing you know the riders will be hiding in the top of the trailer taking a nap when their supposed to be racing..

Laughing






This. Hahahahahahaha.


Then they’ll demand feld create 2 new supercross positions per year for the duration of the contract.

And with guaranteed income....they’ll show
Up. Roll the gate. Head back to the truck.....got my $80,000 a year. Holla.
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mxracer816
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1/8/2019 9:19pm
AngryBear wrote:
for comparison, oval dirt track purse: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/01/08/316596/s1200_37956004_2047514781989645_3291430384650158080_n.jpg[/img] track/stands supporting that purse: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/01/08/316597/s1200_6a01156f133334970c01b8d2de8dcd970c.jpg[/img]
for comparison, oval dirt track purse:



track/stands supporting that purse:


Yep, literally buy a 35 dollar pit pass and you're good to go. Never thought I'd see a local dirt track advertisement on here! Bet we've crossed paths at some point, you ride DeSoto any?
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