2018 YZF / Cooper and things overall

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7/20/2017 5:45 AM

This isnt directed at Cooper specifically but with all the talk on the 2018 being better or his potential saving grace and 90% of the people saying that is the issue. What if he doesn't go any better on the bike and posts same results.
What then? Is it him or Yamaha and the bike again.

Same as Barcia, the bike was the issue but he is no better on the Suzuki.

Would you then be safe to say its the rider - wether its cause he does or doesn't train enough or that this is actually how good he is?

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7/20/2017 6:43 AM

You'll have those certain guys who will say that it's the "blue pigs fault" and that the bike just sucks. You'll get a lot of answers from both sides though. It's amazing to see how many people say Barcia's problem was the yamaha and try to say he's better on the Suzuki.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
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7/20/2017 7:06 AM

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

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7/20/2017 7:13 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

People (ie you) take 1 single moto into consideration WAYYYYY too much.

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7/20/2017 8:08 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

agn5009 wrote:

People (ie you) take 1 single moto into consideration WAYYYYY too much.

Still Waiting for Coop's "one single moto"..

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7/20/2017 8:14 AM

Spoke with a person close to Yamaha. He mentioned Coop was 2 seconds a lap faster at GH on a stock 18 than his factory 450. Thinking maybe factory Yamaha has some issues making the riders happy. JMO

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7/20/2017 8:16 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

agn5009 wrote:

People (ie you) take 1 single moto into consideration WAYYYYY too much.

True af.

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Not much to say to Vitards.

7/20/2017 8:34 AM

colonel wrote:

This isnt directed at Cooper specifically but with all the talk on the 2018 being better or his potential saving grace and 90% of the people saying that is the issue. What if he doesn't go any better on the bike and posts same results.
What then? Is it him or Yamaha and the bike again.

Same as Barcia, the bike was the issue but he is no better on the Suzuki.

Would you then be safe to say its the rider - wether its cause he does or doesn't train enough or that this is actually how good he is?

Mental position in that second before the gate drops, is 90% of what makes up the results a rider walks away with at the end of business. In my (not pro) opinion.

Watching Coop transition into the premier class has been great viewing for me personally. Again I think the mental game is the defining difference, in the top ten guys especially!

He crushed the competition in the lites class! Then to go up to the 450, and have that voice in the back of your head that says "these guys are going faster" everyday leading to the opener.. Man! That'll do things to your confidence.. If there were stocks in Cooper Inc I'd be first guy in line! He'll be remembered for his 450 career not his 250 I'm sure of it.

The new bike, if he likes it? Could do great things for the subconscious! If not, well.. There's bound to be some residual magic left inside that number 2 plate!

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7/20/2017 10:39 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/20/2017 10:41 AM

well here is the deal: all those 250 champions move up with huge confidence and hype and guess what: you got to be one bad dude to beat the top 3 450 guys and thers is only very very view who can.

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7/20/2017 10:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/20/2017 10:47 AM

The real problem is that Cooper is having a very difficult rookie 450 season. That's all. The transition is easier for some than it is for others. Coop is a confidence rider, a lot like Tomac. When they have the confidence, they are on fire. When they don't, they start grasping at strings for answers instead of just putting their heads down and pushing through it. Those two could learn a lot from Mr Carmichael.

I go 95% Cooper, 5% Bike blame pie for Cooper's outdoor struggles. F'ing Dean Ferris got 2nd at High Point and was almost fastest qualifier on his 2017 YZ450F...

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7/20/2017 11:05 AM

cmotodad wrote:

Spoke with a person close to Yamaha. He mentioned Coop was 2 seconds a lap faster at GH on a stock 18 than his factory 450. Thinking maybe factory Yamaha has some issues making the riders happy. JMO

Ha haha hahahaha hahahhahahahahahhahaha

James Stewart was 3 seconds a lap faster on the new CRF250 but team Suzuki would never tell us that

PS: That is how ridiculous you sound.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/20/2017 11:07 AM

colonel wrote:

This isnt directed at Cooper specifically but with all the talk on the 2018 being better or his potential saving grace and 90% of the people saying that is the issue. What if he doesn't go any better on the bike and posts same results.
What then? Is it him or Yamaha and the bike again.

Same as Barcia, the bike was the issue but he is no better on the Suzuki.

Would you then be safe to say its the rider - wether its cause he does or doesn't train enough or that this is actually how good he is?

its hard to say with Barcia.

really what it comes down to with him is recovering from injuries. he's had an injury at least once in the last 3 years, and this year he had two, he's riding back into shape and the last few rounds he's starting to look like the guy he should. plus the yz450 he had was sorted out already, he's had little time on the rmz in comparision.


but back to coop on the 18

in 2007 GL made a switch to the 2008 yz450f, he felt more comfortable and was able to be aggressive. he notched three wins after RC said goodbye and won the title. in 2011 RV2 made a switch, I remember in behind the scense interview with Mike Williams stating the 11 bike was more rigid and would wear him out faster so was fading faster, he switched and it made a difference.

with cooper, when you've ridden another bike, and you 'know' its better than what you have, its hard to be motivated to ride the worse of the two. riders in general are finicky and to make the jump from 5-10th to 1-5th, its the little things that make the difference. be it confidence in training, or trusting your bike, being comfortable to go at those speeds you cant have any doubts or you wont win.

if he is happier on the 18, it doesn't matter if the chassis is "better" because if he believes it, then it is.

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"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti

7/20/2017 11:12 AM

Phillip_Lamb wrote:

its hard to say with Barcia.

really what it comes down to with him is recovering from injuries. he's had an injury at least once in the last 3 years, and this year he had two, he's riding back into shape and the last few rounds he's starting to look like the guy he should. plus the yz450 he had was sorted out already, he's had little time on the rmz in comparision.


but back to coop on the 18

in 2007 GL made a switch to the 2008 yz450f, he felt more comfortable and was able to be aggressive. he notched three wins after RC said goodbye and won the title. in 2011 RV2 made a switch, I remember in behind the scense interview with Mike Williams stating the 11 bike was more rigid and would wear him out faster so was fading faster, he switched and it made a difference.

with cooper, when you've ridden another bike, and you 'know' its better than what you have, its hard to be motivated to ride the worse of the two. riders in general are finicky and to make the jump from 5-10th to 1-5th, its the little things that make the difference. be it confidence in training, or trusting your bike, being comfortable to go at those speeds you cant have any doubts or you wont win.

if he is happier on the 18, it doesn't matter if the chassis is "better" because if he believes it, then it is.

"if he is happier on the 18, it doesn't matter if the chassis is "better" because if he believes it, then it is."

The placebo effect is big in our sport...

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7/20/2017 1:21 PM

Just sharing an actual comment from someone close. Really not interested in what you believe or not.

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7/20/2017 1:47 PM

Dang after 1 SX season and some rounds of MX this dude sure gets a lot of hate. He will come around he's only what..21?

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7/20/2017 2:03 PM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

agn5009 wrote:

People (ie you) take 1 single moto into consideration WAYYYYY too much.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Still Waiting for Coop's "one single moto"..

boooooooommmmmm....

Cooper didnt seem to have any trouble in Ernee,or any of the other races he did on the 450 in 2016

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7/21/2017 3:37 AM

agn5009 wrote:

People (ie you) take 1 single moto into consideration WAYYYYY too much.

Thisusernameisavailable wrote:

Still Waiting for Coop's "one single moto"..

philG wrote:

boooooooommmmmm....

Cooper didnt seem to have any trouble in Ernee,or any of the other races he did on the 450 in 2016

I asked that question before- Glen Helen MXGP, Ernee MXDN, he was fab on that ole pig of a 450- which was a satellite bike BTW.... he gets on the Factory bike with near unlimited resources and he can't perform. Why can't Yamaha go to Star and ask them for the suspension he had back then if it's purely a comfort issue??

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7/21/2017 3:50 AM

colonel wrote:

This isnt directed at Cooper specifically but with all the talk on the 2018 being better or his potential saving grace and 90% of the people saying that is the issue. What if he doesn't go any better on the bike and posts same results.
What then? Is it him or Yamaha and the bike again.

Same as Barcia, the bike was the issue but he is no better on the Suzuki.

Would you then be safe to say its the rider - wether its cause he does or doesn't train enough or that this is actually how good he is?

Phillip_Lamb wrote:

its hard to say with Barcia.

really what it comes down to with him is recovering from injuries. he's had an injury at least once in the last 3 years, and this year he had two, he's riding back into shape and the last few rounds he's starting to look like the guy he should. plus the yz450 he had was sorted out already, he's had little time on the rmz in comparision.


but back to coop on the 18

in 2007 GL made a switch to the 2008 yz450f, he felt more comfortable and was able to be aggressive. he notched three wins after RC said goodbye and won the title. in 2011 RV2 made a switch, I remember in behind the scense interview with Mike Williams stating the 11 bike was more rigid and would wear him out faster so was fading faster, he switched and it made a difference.

with cooper, when you've ridden another bike, and you 'know' its better than what you have, its hard to be motivated to ride the worse of the two. riders in general are finicky and to make the jump from 5-10th to 1-5th, its the little things that make the difference. be it confidence in training, or trusting your bike, being comfortable to go at those speeds you cant have any doubts or you wont win.

if he is happier on the 18, it doesn't matter if the chassis is "better" because if he believes it, then it is.

twotwosix wrote:

"if he is happier on the 18, it doesn't matter if the chassis is "better" because if he believes it, then it is."

The placebo effect is big in our sport...

Perception is reality

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7/21/2017 3:59 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

This...precisely sums it up! And if he didn't go down in the first turn in the second Moto?
Was flagging at Shepparton national last weekend...Ferris is on another level..he laid waste to the field in the second Moto ...he slowed and mailed it in towards the end...I didn't see the bike holding him back in any way...the other contenders have more or less conceded defeat.
Cooper Webb? Who knows..the US scene is super tough...total head fuck for riders..no job security..serious injury risk..
It was fine for Ferris to just show up and go for broke..dish out some ..but having to race all the races , including supercross? I think it's just the riders and how they approach or handle things...clearly the bike doesn't hold ferris back. But would the bike become an excuse under the pressure of a full season of sx and mx in the states?
It's difficult to answer...I'm sure that Webb felt somewhat humiliated by Ferris' performance, but he really shouldn't .
He should just learn from it and see how you can actually run right up front on the Yamaha

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2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
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7/21/2017 10:03 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Yeah that's probably why Dean Ferris could fly across the world and do the race jetlagged, on a track he's never been at before and on a non-factory Yamaha and get 2nd in a moto. Yeah must be the bike that's the problem...

PJRAUS wrote:

This...precisely sums it up! And if he didn't go down in the first turn in the second Moto?
Was flagging at Shepparton national last weekend...Ferris is on another level..he laid waste to the field in the second Moto ...he slowed and mailed it in towards the end...I didn't see the bike holding him back in any way...the other contenders have more or less conceded defeat.
Cooper Webb? Who knows..the US scene is super tough...total head fuck for riders..no job security..serious injury risk..
It was fine for Ferris to just show up and go for broke..dish out some ..but having to race all the races , including supercross? I think it's just the riders and how they approach or handle things...clearly the bike doesn't hold ferris back. But would the bike become an excuse under the pressure of a full season of sx and mx in the states?
It's difficult to answer...I'm sure that Webb felt somewhat humiliated by Ferris' performance, but he really shouldn't .
He should just learn from it and see how you can actually run right up front on the Yamaha

its not the bike.

its a mental issue. He is mentally not comfortable on the 450, he has ridden a bike he feels more comfortable on, and he is being "forced" to ride a bike he "believes" he cant win on.

his previous runs on a 450, he probably did well on because he was only on it for the one race. his mind set was different

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"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti