2018 Supercross Format Changes

Johnny Depp wrote:

Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win. I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle...

Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win.

I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle at the end with less riders mathematically eliminated too early.

RandyS wrote:

Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage...

Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage point. In addition 2nd and 3rd is more of a benefit over 4th down. Meaning, a guy like Tomac in theory would have lost by more to Dungey than last year. Maybe I'll run the numbers tonight if someone else doesn't but I bet Dungey wins last year by 10 to 15 using the new system.

RandyS wrote:

OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac...

OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac. However, I still believe it could just as easily go the other way based on the mix of good races vs bad.

They went back over the last couple of years at least to figure out a way to tighten it up, and based on 16 and 17 it will. Roczen gains 6 points on Dungey in 16. However I still say there are combos that will work the opposite but I guess they've done enough to know that the majority of the time it will tighten the title race. I still wish they would make a win be more than a 3 point advantage over 2nd if they're going to change the system.

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

I must have missed the part where Feld is upping the purse so the riders can afford to compete and make a living.

NorCal 50+ wrote:

At first I thought this is too complex for the average fan to understand, but who cares? If people can figure out the game of football...

At first I thought this is too complex for the average fan to understand, but who cares? If people can figure out the game of football, they can figure this out.

Does anybody have a link to the amateur SX series?

gt80rider wrote:

Not a fan of any of it really... If anything it makes it harder for mainstreamers to understand and follow... And I for one am going...

Not a fan of any of it really... If anything it makes it harder for mainstreamers to understand and follow...

And I for one am going to miss the semis... I always liked how it gave a lot more tv time to second tier riders and teams...

RandyS wrote:

Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage...

Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage point. In addition 2nd and 3rd is more of a benefit over 4th down. Meaning, a guy like Tomac in theory would have lost by more to Dungey than last year. Maybe I'll run the numbers tonight if someone else doesn't but I bet Dungey wins last year by 10 to 15 using the new system.

RandyS wrote:

OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac...

OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac. However, I still believe it could just as easily go the other way based on the mix of good races vs bad.

They went back over the last couple of years at least to figure out a way to tighten it up, and based on 16 and 17 it will. Roczen gains 6 points on Dungey in 16. However I still say there are combos that will work the opposite but I guess they've done enough to know that the majority of the time it will tighten the title race. I still wish they would make a win be more than a 3 point advantage over 2nd if they're going to change the system.

KirkChandler wrote:

You are right. Tomac's finishes outside of the top 4 would have ended up being 1 point more per race outside the top 4, making him...

You are right.

Tomac's finishes outside of the top 4 would have ended up being 1 point more per race outside the top 4, making him tie with Dungey who didn't finish outside the top 4 at all. It makes the consistency route to the title more difficult to win with.

The points change helps the guys that finish 5th or worse, those places are 1 point closer to what 1st place receives. Yes 1st place gets 1 point more, but the point spread ratio between 1st-4th is still the same. 5th-21st all receive 1 more point than they used to (22nd gets the same 1 point). In theory the points would be closer for the guys finishing outside the top 4, so it technically is a closer championship on paper.

It's a small negligible change that really just makes the math different (harder to do in your head maybe?), everyone will have to get used to the new 26 points for a win and the rest of the points table.

I was expecting more of a MotoGP point system where there is more emphasis on winning. 25 for first, 20 for second, 16 for third, 13th for 4th, 11 for 5th, then one point less per position down to 0 points for 16th place. It allows for a bigger swing in points from race to race. The podium is 9 points different, Supercross is only 5. The top 5 is 14 points, Supercross is 8.


Supercross needs to stop trying to be Nascar, because Nascar is dieing. They have royal screwed up their point system with so many changes and bonus this and bonus that and different playoff points, stage points, race points etc. With Nascars new system no one can accurately count the points during the race. A win isn't a set amount of points with all the stage point BS, the playoff points, etc. Keep it simple.

RichieW13 wrote:

Agreed. One of the things I don't like about the outdoor series is that you basically never see the second tier guys in TV. If they...

Agreed. One of the things I don't like about the outdoor series is that you basically never see the second tier guys in TV. If they aren't in the top 5 or a championship contender, it's like they don't exist.

RandyS wrote:

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They...

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They made the podium less important by quite a bit. Obviously you have to be consistently on the podium or you'll never win a title but they are rewarding more inconsistency.

Titan1 wrote:

Hmmm...I've been following this sport since the early 90's, and I'm confused....I can only imagine how confusing this is going to be for a casual/new fan...

Hmmm...I've been following this sport since the early 90's, and I'm confused....I can only imagine how confusing this is going to be for a casual/new fan (the people they are trying to attract to "grow the sport").

If they really want to get new eye balls on the screen and butts in the seats...leave the format alone, and increase the purse money....johnny football fan is flipping channels...flips onto NBS sports...see a graphic on the screen that the winner of that nights 450 main, won $100K in purse money, last place won $10K...hears the commentators talking about how they are racing for a $5M championship bonus...plus mentions all the sponsor/team contingencies, bonuses, salaries...Tomac made $250K this weekend for the win....(those numbers are just hypothetical...I'm not saying that is what it should be...just a random example.)

That will generate some interest...far more than a "Triple crown", or changing up the points distribution or adding/dropping semi's.

jbomx363 wrote:

It may become known as the Tomac rule.

RandyS wrote:

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They...

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They made the podium less important by quite a bit. Obviously you have to be consistently on the podium or you'll never win a title but they are rewarding more inconsistency.

jbomx363 wrote:

It may become known as the Tomac rule.

RandyS wrote:

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They...

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They made the podium less important by quite a bit. Obviously you have to be consistently on the podium or you'll never win a title but they are rewarding more inconsistency.

jbomx363 wrote:

It may become known as the Tomac rule.

Johnny Depp wrote:

Formerly known as the Bradshaw rule. nrosso391 wrote: "They would've been better off giving points based on the position and lowest points wins the title. 1st...

Formerly known as the Bradshaw rule.

nrosso391 wrote: "They would've been better off giving points based on the position and lowest points wins the title. 1st place = 1 pt, 2nd place = 2 pts. etc..."

Amen.

peelout wrote:

i like it semi races made the show drag. the 3 races with 3 races will be a breath of fresh air. some of you guys...

i like it

semi races made the show drag. the 3 races with 3 races will be a breath of fresh air.

some of you guys would bitch about being hung with a new rope

Johnny Depp wrote:

My problem with the semis is they haven't been semis for some time. They are consolation races. IMO they should take the top half of the...

My problem with the semis is they haven't been semis for some time. They are consolation races. IMO they should take the top half of the heat races to the semi and no one advances straight to the main. The problem is, with only 40 riders that doesn't work. As long as 250's are separate this is the best they could do.

The promoter's don't owe TV and track time to slower riders. They have been getting semi's and lcq time for decades and they are still not earning a decent living. Most of these guy's day jobs pay better.
There is also the 250 class to choose.

The different length mains will hopefully bring different results. 7 minutes gives the "local" hot rod a chance to get a holeshot and stay up front before running out of conditioning. 15 minutes is enough time for conditioning to matter, but not so much to get boring.

RandyS wrote:

OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac...

OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac. However, I still believe it could just as easily go the other way based on the mix of good races vs bad.

They went back over the last couple of years at least to figure out a way to tighten it up, and based on 16 and 17 it will. Roczen gains 6 points on Dungey in 16. However I still say there are combos that will work the opposite but I guess they've done enough to know that the majority of the time it will tighten the title race. I still wish they would make a win be more than a 3 point advantage over 2nd if they're going to change the system.

KirkChandler wrote:

You are right. Tomac's finishes outside of the top 4 would have ended up being 1 point more per race outside the top 4, making him...

You are right.

Tomac's finishes outside of the top 4 would have ended up being 1 point more per race outside the top 4, making him tie with Dungey who didn't finish outside the top 4 at all. It makes the consistency route to the title more difficult to win with.

The points change helps the guys that finish 5th or worse, those places are 1 point closer to what 1st place receives. Yes 1st place gets 1 point more, but the point spread ratio between 1st-4th is still the same. 5th-21st all receive 1 more point than they used to (22nd gets the same 1 point). In theory the points would be closer for the guys finishing outside the top 4, so it technically is a closer championship on paper.

It's a small negligible change that really just makes the math different (harder to do in your head maybe?), everyone will have to get used to the new 26 points for a win and the rest of the points table.

I was expecting more of a MotoGP point system where there is more emphasis on winning. 25 for first, 20 for second, 16 for third, 13th for 4th, 11 for 5th, then one point less per position down to 0 points for 16th place. It allows for a bigger swing in points from race to race. The podium is 9 points different, Supercross is only 5. The top 5 is 14 points, Supercross is 8.


Supercross needs to stop trying to be Nascar, because Nascar is dieing. They have royal screwed up their point system with so many changes and bonus this and bonus that and different playoff points, stage points, race points etc. With Nascars new system no one can accurately count the points during the race. A win isn't a set amount of points with all the stage point BS, the playoff points, etc. Keep it simple.

RandyS wrote:

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They...

Wow, I was looking at the top 4 and not paying attention to the 5th though 22nd. I thought everyone got bumped up one point. They made the podium less important by quite a bit. Obviously you have to be consistently on the podium or you'll never win a title but they are rewarding more inconsistency.

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

I must have missed the part where Feld is upping the purse so the riders can afford to compete and make a living.

darrennerrad wrote:

I don't like the changes. In my opinion it robs the spectators of being able to watch more racing, and furthermore if a top rider gets...

I don't like the changes. In my opinion it robs the spectators of being able to watch more racing, and furthermore if a top rider gets on the leaderboard in practice has some bad luck in the heat race such as a mechanical or taken out by an Anderson, they're forced to race in the LCQ, and we all know how crazy those are. Just my take on it.

darrennerrad wrote:

I don't like the changes. In my opinion it robs the spectators of being able to watch more racing, and furthermore if a top rider gets...

I don't like the changes. In my opinion it robs the spectators of being able to watch more racing, and furthermore if a top rider gets on the leaderboard in practice has some bad luck in the heat race such as a mechanical or taken out by an Anderson, they're forced to race in the LCQ, and we all know how crazy those are. Just my take on it.

Johnny Depp wrote:

Personally I'd rather no LCQ. Sudden death for me. If something goes wrong in the heat, you're done if you can't catch back up to 9th...

Personally I'd rather no LCQ. Sudden death for me. If something goes wrong in the heat, you're done if you can't catch back up to 9th (I'd make it 11 and no DNQ er LCQ). Results are too predictable as is, I'd rather see the occasional favorite watching the main from the stands. The factories and ticket holders will all cry snowflake tears, so I get it that we still have the LCQ. The show would be too short without it, it's the alleged "B Main" where 5 advance so it matters. I'll get over it.

Titan1 wrote:

Hmmm...I've been following this sport since the early 90's, and I'm confused....I can only imagine how confusing this is going to be for a casual/new fan...

Hmmm...I've been following this sport since the early 90's, and I'm confused....I can only imagine how confusing this is going to be for a casual/new fan (the people they are trying to attract to "grow the sport").

If they really want to get new eye balls on the screen and butts in the seats...leave the format alone, and increase the purse money....johnny football fan is flipping channels...flips onto NBS sports...see a graphic on the screen that the winner of that nights 450 main, won $100K in purse money, last place won $10K...hears the commentators talking about how they are racing for a $5M championship bonus...plus mentions all the sponsor/team contingencies, bonuses, salaries...Tomac made $250K this weekend for the win....(those numbers are just hypothetical...I'm not saying that is what it should be...just a random example.)

That will generate some interest...far more than a "Triple crown", or changing up the points distribution or adding/dropping semi's.