2018 Supercross Format Changes

Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
10/23/2017 11:59am Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 11:59am
RandyS wrote:
I hated when they eliminated semis the last time and I don't like it anymore now but whatever. BUT, if you're going to mess with the...
I hated when they eliminated semis the last time and I don't like it anymore now but whatever. BUT, if you're going to mess with the point system why not increase the benefit of a win instead of decreasing it. I don't get making 2nd and third closer to 1st? Go 27/23/21, tightening it makes Dungey consistency more important, not less.
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win.

I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle at the end with less riders mathematically eliminated too early.
peelout
Posts
17871
Joined
1/6/2011
Location
Ogden, UT US
10/23/2017 12:00pm
i like it

semi races made the show drag. the 3 races with 3 races will be a breath of fresh air.

some of you guys would bitch about being hung with a new rope
GangGreen
Posts
428
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Mechanicsburg, PA US
10/23/2017 12:02pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 12:04pm
I think the Triple Crown format is a recipe for more injuries with the Supercross Main Events being six minutes +1 lap for the first main, ten minutes plus +1 for the second. Two 20 Minute Main Events would accomplish the same end result of having the best riders on the track longer.

Still no changes to the ridiculously outdated "Double-Displacement Rule", and I'd like to see Timed Practice go away as well.
10/23/2017 12:02pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 12:08pm
I'm glad they changed the points payout as I've long thought the winner should be awarded more. Also glad they kept timed races. The sand SX seems pretty cool, too.

Edit: Nevermind, my dumbass misread the new points payout, it's really no different other than awarding points all the way to 22nd.

The Shop

Flip109
Posts
3460
Joined
6/15/2007
Location
TX US
10/23/2017 12:04pm
Hell yeah, I’m glad they are adjusting and testing different formats. I like that the semis are gone. Couldn’t stand em. I think the 3 moto format is where it is at. Every race we watch will have the best riders and everything we see counts.
resetjet
Posts
2387
Joined
3/16/2012
Location
Tampa, FL US
10/23/2017 12:06pm
GangGreen wrote:
I think the Triple Crown format is a [b]recipe for more injuries[/b] with the Supercross Main Events being six minutes +1 lap for the first main...
I think the Triple Crown format is a recipe for more injuries with the Supercross Main Events being six minutes +1 lap for the first main, ten minutes plus +1 for the second. Two 20 Minute Main Events would accomplish the same end result of having the best riders on the track longer.

Still no changes to the ridiculously outdated "Double-Displacement Rule", and I'd like to see Timed Practice go away as well.
Well not when you have runaway races like most we watch.
Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
10/23/2017 12:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 12:32pm
mx617 wrote:
I must be the only guy in here that likes the semis? Ducks that they are going away, especially for the mid level teams. A 9-10...
I must be the only guy in here that likes the semis? Ducks that they are going away, especially for the mid level teams. A 9-10 guy in the main is a potential race winner in the semis. Only chance to get tv time for for a lot of this teams.


I wonder what the logic is behind having different length mains on the Triple crown races?
Rewindcaz wrote:
That's the biggest bummer of it all, semi races made for super intense heat races. Otherwise, it's nice to see them making changes. Thumbs up on...
That's the biggest bummer of it all, semi races made for super intense heat races.

Otherwise, it's nice to see them making changes. Thumbs up on the new points format.
My problem with the semis is they haven't been semis for some time. They are consolation races. IMO they should take the top half of the heat races to the semi and no one advances straight to the main. The problem is, with only 40 riders that doesn't work. As long as 250's are separate this is the best they could do.

The promoter's don't owe TV and track time to slower riders. They have been getting semi's and lcq time for decades and they are still not earning a decent living. Most of these guy's day jobs pay better.
There is also the 250 class to choose.

The different length mains will hopefully bring different results. 7 minutes gives the "local" hot rod a chance to get a holeshot and stay up front before running out of conditioning. 15 minutes is enough time for conditioning to matter, but not so much to get boring.

SteezGeez
Posts
200
Joined
12/11/2016
Location
Fullerton, CA US
Fantasy
476th
10/23/2017 12:27pm
GuyB wrote:
Well, we can say with some assurance that we won't be watching any Dungey runaways this year... Wink
Haha for sure. My point was it just means that someone else has a shot in the night to come in and get the holeshot/race win. More starts means the racing is kept tighter which is more entertaining.
RichieW13
Posts
1798
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
2913th
10/23/2017 12:29pm
Unfortunately, it is not the promoters responsibility for the riders to make a living. Just like NASCAR, NFL, etc, the "talent" is paid by their sponsors...
Unfortunately, it is not the promoters responsibility for the riders to make a living. Just like NASCAR, NFL, etc, the "talent" is paid by their sponsors and Teams, not the promoter. I do agree the privateers need to make more though and even some of the higher level riders who ride for "free". The short answer is Feld and MX Sports working with the Teams to bring more corporate sponsorship to the sport in general. I feel the sport does a poor job in attracting more mainstream fans/support Example: Musquin just won $1,000,000 and I didn't see a word about it in mainstream media.

How can we become more mainstream and grow the sport will bring the $, not asking the promoters to pay more assuming they have unlimited budgets.
Why not?

In the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. those bodies are essentially the promoters. They collect the TV money and distribute to teams, who use it to pay players. The teams get gate revenue and use some to that to pay players. The players generally get somewhere around 50% of the total combined revenues.

What percentage of Feld's total revenue goes to the purse? (I don't know the answer.) I think about $125,000 goes to the race purse and about $25,000 each race goes to the season-end points fund. So $150,000 per event goes from Feld to the riders. I have no idea what kind of revenue Feld gets per round, but it must be way more than $300k.
Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
10/23/2017 12:29pm
peelout wrote:
i like it semi races made the show drag. the 3 races with 3 races will be a breath of fresh air. some of you guys...
i like it

semi races made the show drag. the 3 races with 3 races will be a breath of fresh air.

some of you guys would bitch about being hung with a new rope
I don't want any rope burns before I die.
twotwosix
Posts
1852
Joined
9/29/2016
Location
TN US
10/23/2017 12:36pm
I like the changes. The Triple Crown will be great.
RichieW13
Posts
1798
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
2913th
10/23/2017 12:41pm
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win. I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle...
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win.

I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle at the end with less riders mathematically eliminated too early.
It's only a benefit compared to finishing outside the top 4. Since the champion rarely finishes outside the top 4, I don't understand the reasoning for this. (Last year was an unusually close finish, so any tweak was likely to change things.)

Instead, it is just going to put more separation between the top few guys and the rest of the pack. Which I think is already one of the problems with this sport. There are usually only 4 or 5 guys capable of winning a main, and even fewer with a realistic shot at the championship after a few rounds.
Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
10/23/2017 12:42pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I was looking at the TV schedule and was wondering why some of the East coast rounds are being broadcast at 10pm? Anyone know if that's...
I was looking at the TV schedule and was wondering why some of the East coast rounds are being broadcast at 10pm?

Anyone know if that's just a mistake? I don't see why they should air that late unless they're delayed for whatever reason.

Atlanta SX March 3rd at 10pm EST

Minneapolis SX April 14th at 10pm EST

They might sell a few more tickets if it was delayed? Perhaps they are trying to make the times more consistent as they move from coast to coast? Damn those West Coast races sure run late, it's hard to drink AND stay awake during some of the boredom. Maybe the format will help that problem.
RichieW13
Posts
1798
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
2913th
10/23/2017 12:43pm
GangGreen wrote:
I think the Triple Crown format is a [b]recipe for more injuries[/b] with the Supercross Main Events being six minutes +1 lap for the first main...
I think the Triple Crown format is a recipe for more injuries with the Supercross Main Events being six minutes +1 lap for the first main, ten minutes plus +1 for the second. Two 20 Minute Main Events would accomplish the same end result of having the best riders on the track longer.

Still no changes to the ridiculously outdated "Double-Displacement Rule", and I'd like to see Timed Practice go away as well.
By "timed practice" are you talking about qualifying? If you eliminated that, how would you determine which riders make the night show and how would you seed for gate picks?
10/23/2017 12:46pm
It's a good mixup. But, how are those tracks at the triple crown going to hold up? Need to do the math, but these tracks we're suffering enough last year with the timed mains, and now you're increasing the total race time? Not sure how that will work.

I think the amateur thing is too much. All for getting riders more experience, but now it seems like you're forcing the hand with some; ride arenacross consistently. Why not use the extra $ to put their show on and give it back to some of the pro riders? [Insert "B" main idea].

Let those guys ride arenacross and keep that series healthy.
mxjon454
Posts
1448
Joined
10/27/2009
Location
Menifee, CA US
10/23/2017 12:50pm
mx617 wrote:
I must be the only guy in here that likes the semis? Ducks that they are going away, especially for the mid level teams. A 9-10...
I must be the only guy in here that likes the semis? Ducks that they are going away, especially for the mid level teams. A 9-10 guy in the main is a potential race winner in the semis. Only chance to get tv time for for a lot of this teams.


I wonder what the logic is behind having different length mains on the Triple crown races?
Rewindcaz wrote:
That's the biggest bummer of it all, semi races made for super intense heat races. Otherwise, it's nice to see them making changes. Thumbs up on...
That's the biggest bummer of it all, semi races made for super intense heat races.

Otherwise, it's nice to see them making changes. Thumbs up on the new points format.
Exactly. Now since there are no semis, if a guy is running 6th in his heat hes not going to be worried about trying to qualify. Also if a guy has a problem in his heat, he gets one chance to correct it and get into the main, thats a bummer. I like having the semis, teams get more exposure that way too.
JK105
Posts
445
Joined
7/12/2008
Location
Harrison, OH US
10/23/2017 12:55pm
So Indy will have a east / west shootout?!? Any more details on this?
Zesiger 112
Posts
2197
Joined
3/4/2013
Location
Pink Hill, NC US
Fantasy
2020th
10/23/2017 12:57pm
So no announcement on the metal starting gate?
And can you imagine seeing 6 rider 250 teams at Indy and vegas like they are in the outdoors? Will some teams bring 2 trucks?
RichieW13
Posts
1798
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
2913th
10/23/2017 12:57pm
It's a good mixup. But, how are those tracks at the triple crown going to hold up? Need to do the math, but these tracks we're...
It's a good mixup. But, how are those tracks at the triple crown going to hold up? Need to do the math, but these tracks we're suffering enough last year with the timed mains, and now you're increasing the total race time? Not sure how that will work.

I think the amateur thing is too much. All for getting riders more experience, but now it seems like you're forcing the hand with some; ride arenacross consistently. Why not use the extra $ to put their show on and give it back to some of the pro riders? [Insert "B" main idea].

Let those guys ride arenacross and keep that series healthy.
It looks like the triple crown could be way more track time, depending on if the track gets rebuilt after the "qualifying" rounds or not. Are those going to be part of the main show, like heat races, or the pre-show like timed qualifying?

Anyway, with last year's format I count 69 minutes of racing, plus 10 laps.

For triple crown it would be 69 minute of racing, plus 8 laps. PLUS 40 minutes of racing for the qualifying rounds.
RichieW13
Posts
1798
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
2913th
10/23/2017 12:59pm
JK105 wrote:
So Indy will have a east / west shootout?!? Any more details on this?
Looks to be same as the Las Vegas shootout this year (2017).
Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
10/23/2017 1:00pm
It's a good mixup. But, how are those tracks at the triple crown going to hold up? Need to do the math, but these tracks we're...
It's a good mixup. But, how are those tracks at the triple crown going to hold up? Need to do the math, but these tracks we're suffering enough last year with the timed mains, and now you're increasing the total race time? Not sure how that will work.

I think the amateur thing is too much. All for getting riders more experience, but now it seems like you're forcing the hand with some; ride arenacross consistently. Why not use the extra $ to put their show on and give it back to some of the pro riders? [Insert "B" main idea].

Let those guys ride arenacross and keep that series healthy.
We got a B main, it's called LCQ.
early
Posts
8263
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
10/23/2017 1:00pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 1:04pm
RichieW13 wrote:
It looks like the triple crown could be way more track time, depending on if the track gets rebuilt after the "qualifying" rounds or not. Are...
It looks like the triple crown could be way more track time, depending on if the track gets rebuilt after the "qualifying" rounds or not. Are those going to be part of the main show, like heat races, or the pre-show like timed qualifying?

Anyway, with last year's format I count 69 minutes of racing, plus 10 laps.

For triple crown it would be 69 minute of racing, plus 8 laps. PLUS 40 minutes of racing for the qualifying rounds.
Probably timed qualifying and lcq to get into night show for "triple crown" format.

Also i count 63 minutes plus 6 laps.
twizzler
Posts
1008
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
10/23/2017 1:02pm
6 minute race for 250 triple crown seems too short. Sand track could be cool, thinking back to Miami 1989 where Bradshaw put on a show. But how will the teams practice for the sand SX? Go to Florida and ride Croom for the week or make their own sand track at the Bakery, or Baggett's, etc... At least it will be a one off to where anything can happen, that is the exciting factor. Did they say anything about the metal grate start? I don't like that one bit.
mark_swart
Posts
2408
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC US
10/23/2017 1:12pm
I like the idea of the series within the series, and have a good or bad night at any of them can have big points implications.

As a long time fan, I can tell you I get viewer fatigue watching essentially the same thing 17 weeks in a row. And when I dont watch libe, I usually end up fast forwarding through tbe semis. This seems like a cool way to freshen things up without the artificiality of a points chase.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out!
RandyS
Posts
6184
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Grass Valley, CA US
10/23/2017 1:13pm
RandyS wrote:
I hated when they eliminated semis the last time and I don't like it anymore now but whatever. BUT, if you're going to mess with the...
I hated when they eliminated semis the last time and I don't like it anymore now but whatever. BUT, if you're going to mess with the point system why not increase the benefit of a win instead of decreasing it. I don't get making 2nd and third closer to 1st? Go 27/23/21, tightening it makes Dungey consistency more important, not less.
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win. I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle...
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win.

I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle at the end with less riders mathematically eliminated too early.
Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage point. In addition 2nd and 3rd is more of a benefit over 4th down. Meaning, a guy like Tomac in theory would have lost by more to Dungey than last year. Maybe I'll run the numbers tonight if someone else doesn't but I bet Dungey wins last year by 10 to 15 using the new system.
Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
10/23/2017 1:16pm
twizzler wrote:
6 minute race for 250 triple crown seems too short. Sand track could be cool, thinking back to Miami 1989 where Bradshaw put on a show...
6 minute race for 250 triple crown seems too short. Sand track could be cool, thinking back to Miami 1989 where Bradshaw put on a show. But how will the teams practice for the sand SX? Go to Florida and ride Croom for the week or make their own sand track at the Bakery, or Baggett's, etc... At least it will be a one off to where anything can happen, that is the exciting factor. Did they say anything about the metal grate start? I don't like that one bit.
I think the sand track is a similar concept to Endurocross obstacles without getting too Endurocrossy. It slows the riders down, lot's of roost makes for good visuals, likely some slow speed tip overs with less injuries due to landing in sand. This should add unpredictability and make for some highlight reel bloopers.
RichieW13
Posts
1798
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA US
Fantasy
2913th
10/23/2017 1:18pm
early wrote:
Probably timed qualifying and lcq to get into night show for "triple crown" format.

Also i count 63 minutes plus 6 laps.
I was counting the LCQ's as part of the main show. I think eliminating the non-qualifiers from the main show is a bummer. Those guys provide some of the most exciting racing.
early
Posts
8263
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
10/23/2017 1:20pm
RichieW13 wrote:
I was counting the LCQ's as part of the main show. I think eliminating the non-qualifiers from the main show is a bummer. Those guys provide...
I was counting the LCQ's as part of the main show. I think eliminating the non-qualifiers from the main show is a bummer. Those guys provide some of the most exciting racing.
Agreed, hope the lcq is on tv.
-MAVERICK-
Posts
50403
Joined
3/26/2015
Location
Ontario CA
Fantasy
3730th
10/23/2017 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 1:26pm
resetjet wrote:
Feld clearly doesnt understand the acronym KISS. I like the changes and i understand testing the waters but to a non moto guy it got even...
Feld clearly doesnt understand the acronym KISS. I like the changes and i understand testing the waters but to a non moto guy it got even more confusing.

I assume the am races will be day after like daytona and non telivised as the are gonna "tame down the track"

Amateurs will race the following day on a tamed down track. Hopefully we'll be able to watch the races via Livestream.com like they do with RC's Amateur Daytona SX.

They haven't announced any of the classes but I can't see them having everyone from the 50cc to the Vet classes since this will be a 1 day format and the crew has to deconstruct the track. The track crew usually begin doing that right after the mains are over since they are pressed for time.

I'm hoping the classes will be Superminis, Schoolboy class on the 125's and the "B" and "A" classes. Any other classes I think would be unnecessary seeing as it looks like their whole plan is to develop the future stars of SX/MX.



Edit: Just saw the post above. 27 classes for a 1 day event I think is a lot but I guess it doesn't matter since they're in a stadium with lights.

Looks like SX will be the main focus for a lot of people going forward. I guess FELD will be adding more and more SX events as the years go by. Sucks!
RandyS
Posts
6184
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Grass Valley, CA US
10/23/2017 1:35pm Edited Date/Time 10/23/2017 1:57pm
RandyS wrote:
I hated when they eliminated semis the last time and I don't like it anymore now but whatever. BUT, if you're going to mess with the...
I hated when they eliminated semis the last time and I don't like it anymore now but whatever. BUT, if you're going to mess with the point system why not increase the benefit of a win instead of decreasing it. I don't get making 2nd and third closer to 1st? Go 27/23/21, tightening it makes Dungey consistency more important, not less.
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win. I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle...
Read it again, they did increase the benefit of a win.

I disagree and would go the other way to make for a closer championship battle at the end with less riders mathematically eliminated too early.
RandyS wrote:
Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage...
Not over 2nd and 3rd. Getting 2nd or 3rd is now less of a disadvantage than it was over winning by more than half a percentage point. In addition 2nd and 3rd is more of a benefit over 4th down. Meaning, a guy like Tomac in theory would have lost by more to Dungey than last year. Maybe I'll run the numbers tonight if someone else doesn't but I bet Dungey wins last year by 10 to 15 using the new system.
OK, I went and ran the numbers, it's the Tomac system. Based on last years they tie at 376 with the tie breaker going to Tomac. However, I still believe it could just as easily go the other way based on the mix of good races vs bad.

They went back over the last couple of years at least to figure out a way to tighten it up, and based on 16 and 17 it will. Roczen gains 6 points on Dungey in 16. However I still say there are combos that will work the opposite but I guess they've done enough to know that the majority of the time it will tighten the title race. I still wish they would make a win be more than a 3 point advantage over 2nd if they're going to change the system.

Post a reply to: 2018 Supercross Format Changes

The Latest