2018 CRF 250 mods to increase bottom-end power

brocsdad
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1/23/2018 10:31am Edited Date/Time 6/24/2019 5:08pm
I have always been a Honda fan but all the test riders have complained about the lack bottom end power. I hope they fix the motor issue for 2019 but I was wondering if anyone found some hidden horsepower in the new Honda.
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1/23/2018 10:37am
The yoshimura system makes a decent improvement over stock. My vortex should be back from remap next week but ive been told its a huge improvement on bottom end. Pro circuit is supposedly coming out with a really good set of cams to improve the bottom end. Go listen to the Keefer Testing Living with the 2018 Crf250 podcast as there is some good insight in their.
brocsdad
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1/23/2018 10:50am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 10:52am
The yoshimura system makes a decent improvement over stock. My vortex should be back from remap next week but ive been told its a huge improvement...
The yoshimura system makes a decent improvement over stock. My vortex should be back from remap next week but ive been told its a huge improvement on bottom end. Pro circuit is supposedly coming out with a really good set of cams to improve the bottom end. Go listen to the Keefer Testing Living with the 2018 Crf250 podcast as there is some good insight in their.
My son was recently injured and by the time he is ready to come back we will most likely move a 250F. I was leaning towards the Honda but I cannot break the bank with mods to make it equal to the YZF and SXF. Just curious what mods are working. I know the Yosh exhaust helps a little but the CRF is off 4-5hp in the low-end and mid-range. I'm not sure there is an easy fix without throwing a lot of money at the motor.
RedDragon
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1/23/2018 11:19am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 11:24am
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.
1/23/2018 11:26am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 11:27am
brocsdad wrote:
I have always been a Honda fan but all the test riders have complained about the lack bottom end power. I hope they fix the motor...
I have always been a Honda fan but all the test riders have complained about the lack bottom end power. I hope they fix the motor issue for 2019 but I was wondering if anyone found some hidden horsepower in the new Honda.
I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences.

If the test was blind, and and your average track with normal elevation change, would anyone really be at that big of a disadvantage?

I’ve seen PLENTY of people get on something, and proclaim it was fast or slow simply by the hit/power delivery. They get fooled by it. Not everything that is fast, feels fast. Ive also ridden stuff that feels slow, but was actually making a ton of usable power.

Matching power delivery to a rider’s comfort or style will make them a faster rider, regardless of the bikes HP figures.

The Shop

brocsdad
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1/23/2018 12:07pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 12:10pm
RedDragon wrote:
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the...
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.
It appears to be down all the way up to about 9K rpms. If you could fill in that gap you would have a great motor. Due to sponsors I would have to use FMF. I will check out the Vortex site. Yes Honda's handle like a dream!



Bruce372
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1/23/2018 12:25pm
So a full yosh and a vortex cost around $2000?
brocsdad
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1/23/2018 12:45pm
Bruce372 wrote:
So a full yosh and a vortex cost around $2000?
without a sponsorship around $1500
RedDragon
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1/23/2018 12:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 12:47pm
Tokyo mods stainless yosh pipe is retail $879 and Vortex is $650 when you buy everything through them. I mean no bike is perfect i guess. But if i have the best handling bike for me that just needs a little extra power down low that will cost me about 1500 bucks i can live with that. But i guess like everything else in life its all personal preference. Im also not necessarily giving advice as i dont feel like Im qualified in this sport to do so. Just giving my thoughts on my bike.
brocsdad
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1/23/2018 1:08pm
RedDragon wrote:
Tokyo mods stainless yosh pipe is retail $879 and Vortex is $650 when you buy everything through them. I mean no bike is perfect i guess...
Tokyo mods stainless yosh pipe is retail $879 and Vortex is $650 when you buy everything through them. I mean no bike is perfect i guess. But if i have the best handling bike for me that just needs a little extra power down low that will cost me about 1500 bucks i can live with that. But i guess like everything else in life its all personal preference. Im also not necessarily giving advice as i dont feel like Im qualified in this sport to do so. Just giving my thoughts on my bike.
It's normally easier to make a bike faster than it is to make it flawed design handle.
wfopete
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1/23/2018 1:14pm
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
5
1/23/2018 2:12pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 2:15pm
RedDragon wrote:
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the...
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.
I think you hit the nail on the head, the dip is so far down you don't notice it. I plan on racing mine at Dallas Sx with just the Yosh and Vortex as its already heaps faster than my race bike last year lol. 49 tooth rear sprocket also helps you keep the power above the dip.

The new crf uses the same vortex as the ktm, suzuki, kawi, and 2017 crf450 so I picked up a used one for $300 and just got the 2018 crf250 base map installed on it. You dont have to spend big money to go fast!

Johnny Ringo
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1/23/2018 2:15pm
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
You people are the worst
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tempura
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1/23/2018 3:04pm
Buy a 2 stroke lol
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MBR
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1/23/2018 3:08pm
I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences...
I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences.

If the test was blind, and and your average track with normal elevation change, would anyone really be at that big of a disadvantage?

I’ve seen PLENTY of people get on something, and proclaim it was fast or slow simply by the hit/power delivery. They get fooled by it. Not everything that is fast, feels fast. Ive also ridden stuff that feels slow, but was actually making a ton of usable power.

Matching power delivery to a rider’s comfort or style will make them a faster rider, regardless of the bikes HP figures.
We tested at Glen Helen and to much of my surprise according the LITPro data I was fastest on Honda (and best starts also). I was sure that Yamaha would have been fastest as it feels like 450 with all that lower end power. I think it is the excitement of Honda motor that makes you ride more aggressive and go faster.
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kiwifan
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1/23/2018 3:48pm
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
Good grief, next time think before you post
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kiwifan
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1/23/2018 3:50pm
I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences...
I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences.

If the test was blind, and and your average track with normal elevation change, would anyone really be at that big of a disadvantage?

I’ve seen PLENTY of people get on something, and proclaim it was fast or slow simply by the hit/power delivery. They get fooled by it. Not everything that is fast, feels fast. Ive also ridden stuff that feels slow, but was actually making a ton of usable power.

Matching power delivery to a rider’s comfort or style will make them a faster rider, regardless of the bikes HP figures.
MBR wrote:
We tested at Glen Helen and to much of my surprise according the LITPro data I was fastest on Honda (and best starts also). I was...
We tested at Glen Helen and to much of my surprise according the LITPro data I was fastest on Honda (and best starts also). I was sure that Yamaha would have been fastest as it feels like 450 with all that lower end power. I think it is the excitement of Honda motor that makes you ride more aggressive and go faster.
Nice factual response, be interesting to hear your view on the bike with the pipe and ignition mods too.
1
ryanxmx31
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1/23/2018 4:08pm
I think if fmf comes out with a 2 into one header like the old xr it would pick up a ton of bottom end
1/23/2018 6:49pm
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric
1
malachi177
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1/23/2018 6:59pm
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric
Boom! Friggin pumpkin eater Pete
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CarlinoJoeVideo
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1/23/2018 7:20pm
I heard ML is working on a 2018 Honda 250 project with Twisted Development. Very interesting to how that comes out!
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tempura
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1/23/2018 7:42pm
How are the clutches?
BobPA
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1/23/2018 8:28pm
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric
Do you enjoy your enginecycle?

A motor is a machine that converts other forms of energy into mechanical energy and so imparts motion.

An engine is a motor that converts thermal energy to mechanical work.

An engine is a specific type of motor....

Take a seat bro.
drt410
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1/23/2018 11:16pm Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 11:23pm
This bike is meant to be riddin in the higher rpms. Just keep it a gear lower and let it scream and it will scream and sign off very late. It will pull a gear then pull some more then keep pulling. No need to be down low. She makes a ton of hp and signs off late. That low hp area is in the low rpms you really dont even need to ride in anyways. Thats why they sacrificed it for up top. Ride it on the pipe and this thing will slay. Keep it in a gear that keeps the rpms up and when you think you have to shift you dont you still have much more to give so just keep twisting it and it will go like a banshee. Handles like a wet dream too. Just ride it a gear low if your a slower rider and twist that shit because it will keep going and going in that gear and pull ur arms off. When you think you have to shift you dont. If need be the cheapest mod you can make is always a sprocket to get some down low. Play around there first before you go dropping thousands on an exhaust. Both would be very nice though. From 9500 to 1400 this thing is domination. You have to ride it kind of like an R6. Keep that baby in the high rpms and it will reward you kindly.
1
Lightning78
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1/23/2018 11:29pm
RedDragon wrote:
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the...
Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.
brocsdad wrote:
It appears to be down all the way up to about 9K rpms. If you could fill in that gap you would have a great motor...
It appears to be down all the way up to about 9K rpms. If you could fill in that gap you would have a great motor. Due to sponsors I would have to use FMF. I will check out the Vortex site. Yes Honda's handle like a dream!



Wow!! Is that for real??? The honda cant be THAT far down on power in that rpm range, it would get slaughtered by the other brands in a race and from what ive seen so far in SX and reports from test riders, including Keefer it doest seem to be THAT weak of an engine.

I remember when this bike was just about to come out, some of the honda guys got quoted saying that with some good engine mods, this new engine would be capable of making HP that could put up numbers dam close to a 450!

Itll be interesting with the way this bike is a top end rev monster, how the Geico guyswill do on it in the Outdoors. Too bad JMart is going 450 outdoorsthis year, hed demolish everyone on a 250f with that much power on top
1/24/2018 12:02am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2018 12:21am
wfopete wrote:
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings. Find a fabricator and drop...
The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.
Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric
BobPA wrote:
Do you enjoy your enginecycle? A motor is a machine that converts other forms of energy into mechanical energy and so imparts motion. An engine is...
Do you enjoy your enginecycle?

A motor is a machine that converts other forms of energy into mechanical energy and so imparts motion.

An engine is a motor that converts thermal energy to mechanical work.

An engine is a specific type of motor....

Take a seat bro.
Wow. I see your wisdom ran out at quoting Wikileaks.
But then there's this:
To summarize, you can either equate an engine with a) any machine, or b) a thermal engine, or c) any machine that transforms kinetic energy to/from another form of energy. A motor is any machine that transforms another form of energy to linear or rotational kinetic energy.
Now I suggest you take a seat. At the back of the class.
1
wfopete
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1/24/2018 4:16am
JM is due to join the little loser red bike ranks soon as his 450 stint ends. There will bill plenty of these little loser red bikes in dealer inventory by the end of the year. Seems Honda has little interest in building a competitive 250 motor; I mean engine. Maybe Honda is focusing their R&D on an electric bike...with a competitive motor. Unsure In the meantime all you 250 Honda riders can enjoy your 125 style power as you will have the track to yourselves until the leaders lap you.
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c0ncEpT
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1/24/2018 5:53am Edited Date/Time 1/24/2018 5:53am
Wow!! Is that for real??? The honda cant be THAT far down on power in that rpm range, it would get slaughtered by the other brands...
Wow!! Is that for real??? The honda cant be THAT far down on power in that rpm range, it would get slaughtered by the other brands in a race and from what ive seen so far in SX and reports from test riders, including Keefer it doest seem to be THAT weak of an engine.

I remember when this bike was just about to come out, some of the honda guys got quoted saying that with some good engine mods, this new engine would be capable of making HP that could put up numbers dam close to a 450!

Itll be interesting with the way this bike is a top end rev monster, how the Geico guyswill do on it in the Outdoors. Too bad JMart is going 450 outdoorsthis year, hed demolish everyone on a 250f with that much power on top
That bike pulled 2 out of 3 holeshots at last weeks triple crown race. I'd say with motor mods its just an competitive as the rest.

If you look at racing on the highest level everyone is looking for more RPM. NHRA Prostock, Formula 1, Nascar, Ect.

Most of the time it's achieved by using a larger bore and shorter stroke.

Nothing wrong with the Honda 250. They may have slightly missed the mark out of the box but the architecture is there to make big power.

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