2018 CRF 250 mods to increase bottom-end power

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1/23/2018 10:31 AM

I have always been a Honda fan but all the test riders have complained about the lack bottom end power. I hope they fix the motor issue for 2019 but I was wondering if anyone found some hidden horsepower in the new Honda.

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1/23/2018 10:37 AM

The yoshimura system makes a decent improvement over stock. My vortex should be back from remap next week but ive been told its a huge improvement on bottom end. Pro circuit is supposedly coming out with a really good set of cams to improve the bottom end. Go listen to the Keefer Testing Living with the 2018 Crf250 podcast as there is some good insight in their.

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1/23/2018 10:50 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 10:52 AM

chasestevenson599 wrote:

The yoshimura system makes a decent improvement over stock. My vortex should be back from remap next week but ive been told its a huge improvement on bottom end. Pro circuit is supposedly coming out with a really good set of cams to improve the bottom end. Go listen to the Keefer Testing Living with the 2018 Crf250 podcast as there is some good insight in their.

My son was recently injured and by the time he is ready to come back we will most likely move a 250F. I was leaning towards the Honda but I cannot break the bank with mods to make it equal to the YZF and SXF. Just curious what mods are working. I know the Yosh exhaust helps a little but the CRF is off 4-5hp in the low-end and mid-range. I'm not sure there is an easy fix without throwing a lot of money at the motor.

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1/23/2018 11:19 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 11:24 AM

Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.

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1/23/2018 11:26 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 11:27 AM

brocsdad wrote:

I have always been a Honda fan but all the test riders have complained about the lack bottom end power. I hope they fix the motor issue for 2019 but I was wondering if anyone found some hidden horsepower in the new Honda.

I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences.

If the test was blind, and and your average track with normal elevation change, would anyone really be at that big of a disadvantage?

I’ve seen PLENTY of people get on something, and proclaim it was fast or slow simply by the hit/power delivery. They get fooled by it. Not everything that is fast, feels fast. Ive also ridden stuff that feels slow, but was actually making a ton of usable power.

Matching power delivery to a rider’s comfort or style will make them a faster rider, regardless of the bikes HP figures.

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Part of Speech: Noun

Definition: A loser, poser, lame-ass. One who talks the talk, but could never walk the walk.

One who talks shit and doesn't back it up, but rather ends up eating their shit in return. A fuckin 'tard.


Usage: Slang

1/23/2018 12:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 12:10 PM

RedDragon wrote:

Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.

It appears to be down all the way up to about 9K rpms. If you could fill in that gap you would have a great motor. Due to sponsors I would have to use FMF. I will check out the Vortex site. Yes Honda's handle like a dream!

Photo

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1/23/2018 12:12 PM

Photo

Photo


http://www.vortexcdi.com/model_product.php?product=56&model=254&mp_id=4050

Between the pipe and the vortex (hard to see on this chart but check out the site link) it seems pretty significant gain right in that area.
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1/23/2018 12:25 PM

So a full yosh and a vortex cost around $2000?

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1/23/2018 12:45 PM

Bruce372 wrote:

So a full yosh and a vortex cost around $2000?

without a sponsorship around $1500

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1/23/2018 12:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 12:47 PM

Tokyo mods stainless yosh pipe is retail $879 and Vortex is $650 when you buy everything through them. I mean no bike is perfect i guess. But if i have the best handling bike for me that just needs a little extra power down low that will cost me about 1500 bucks i can live with that. But i guess like everything else in life its all personal preference. Im also not necessarily giving advice as i dont feel like Im qualified in this sport to do so. Just giving my thoughts on my bike.

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1/23/2018 1:08 PM

RedDragon wrote:

Tokyo mods stainless yosh pipe is retail $879 and Vortex is $650 when you buy everything through them. I mean no bike is perfect i guess. But if i have the best handling bike for me that just needs a little extra power down low that will cost me about 1500 bucks i can live with that. But i guess like everything else in life its all personal preference. Im also not necessarily giving advice as i dont feel like Im qualified in this sport to do so. Just giving my thoughts on my bike.

It's normally easier to make a bike faster than it is to make it flawed design handle.

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1/23/2018 1:14 PM

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

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1/23/2018 2:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 2:15 PM

RedDragon wrote:

Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.

I think you hit the nail on the head, the dip is so far down you don't notice it. I plan on racing mine at Dallas Sx with just the Yosh and Vortex as its already heaps faster than my race bike last year lol. 49 tooth rear sprocket also helps you keep the power above the dip.

The new crf uses the same vortex as the ktm, suzuki, kawi, and 2017 crf450 so I picked up a used one for $300 and just got the 2018 crf250 base map installed on it. You dont have to spend big money to go fast!

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1/23/2018 2:15 PM

wfopete wrote:

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

You people are the worst

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Alright Lunger, Let's Do It

1/23/2018 2:56 PM

Buy a 450

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

1/23/2018 3:04 PM

Buy a 2 stroke lol

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

1/23/2018 3:08 PM

Jabroni wrote:

I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences.

If the test was blind, and and your average track with normal elevation change, would anyone really be at that big of a disadvantage?

I’ve seen PLENTY of people get on something, and proclaim it was fast or slow simply by the hit/power delivery. They get fooled by it. Not everything that is fast, feels fast. Ive also ridden stuff that feels slow, but was actually making a ton of usable power.

Matching power delivery to a rider’s comfort or style will make them a faster rider, regardless of the bikes HP figures.

We tested at Glen Helen and to much of my surprise according the LITPro data I was fastest on Honda (and best starts also). I was sure that Yamaha would have been fastest as it feels like 450 with all that lower end power. I think it is the excitement of Honda motor that makes you ride more aggressive and go faster.

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1/23/2018 3:48 PM

wfopete wrote:

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

Good grief, next time think before you post

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

1/23/2018 3:50 PM

brocsdad wrote:

I have always been a Honda fan but all the test riders have complained about the lack bottom end power. I hope they fix the motor issue for 2019 but I was wondering if anyone found some hidden horsepower in the new Honda.

Jabroni wrote:

I’ve always wondered how much these hp differences are magnified because magazine tests are done at Glen Helen where those hills really expose actual power differences.

If the test was blind, and and your average track with normal elevation change, would anyone really be at that big of a disadvantage?

I’ve seen PLENTY of people get on something, and proclaim it was fast or slow simply by the hit/power delivery. They get fooled by it. Not everything that is fast, feels fast. Ive also ridden stuff that feels slow, but was actually making a ton of usable power.

Matching power delivery to a rider’s comfort or style will make them a faster rider, regardless of the bikes HP figures.

MBR wrote:

We tested at Glen Helen and to much of my surprise according the LITPro data I was fastest on Honda (and best starts also). I was sure that Yamaha would have been fastest as it feels like 450 with all that lower end power. I think it is the excitement of Honda motor that makes you ride more aggressive and go faster.

Nice factual response, be interesting to hear your view on the bike with the pipe and ignition mods too.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

1/23/2018 4:08 PM

I think if fmf comes out with a 2 into one header like the old xr it would pick up a ton of bottom end

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1/23/2018 6:49 PM

wfopete wrote:

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric

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1/23/2018 6:59 PM

wfopete wrote:

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

Underground wrote:

Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric

Boom! Friggin pumpkin eater Pete

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1/23/2018 7:20 PM

I heard ML is working on a 2018 Honda 250 project with Twisted Development. Very interesting to how that comes out!

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1/23/2018 7:42 PM

How are the clutches?

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

1/23/2018 7:50 PM

tempura wrote:

How are the clutches?

Another $1000 ?

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1/23/2018 8:28 PM

wfopete wrote:

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

Underground wrote:

Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric

Do you enjoy your enginecycle?

A motor is a machine that converts other forms of energy into mechanical energy and so imparts motion.

An engine is a motor that converts thermal energy to mechanical work.

An engine is a specific type of motor....

Take a seat bro.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

1/23/2018 11:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/23/2018 11:23 PM

This bike is meant to be riddin in the higher rpms. Just keep it a gear lower and let it scream and it will scream and sign off very late. It will pull a gear then pull some more then keep pulling. No need to be down low. She makes a ton of hp and signs off late. That low hp area is in the low rpms you really dont even need to ride in anyways. Thats why they sacrificed it for up top. Ride it on the pipe and this thing will slay. Keep it in a gear that keeps the rpms up and when you think you have to shift you dont you still have much more to give so just keep twisting it and it will go like a banshee. Handles like a wet dream too. Just ride it a gear low if your a slower rider and twist that shit because it will keep going and going in that gear and pull ur arms off. When you think you have to shift you dont. If need be the cheapest mod you can make is always a sprocket to get some down low. Play around there first before you go dropping thousands on an exhaust. Both would be very nice though. From 9500 to 1400 this thing is domination. You have to ride it kind of like an R6. Keep that baby in the high rpms and it will reward you kindly.

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1/23/2018 11:29 PM

RedDragon wrote:

Spoke to a reputable and well known tuning company that assured me that a yosh pipe and a vortex ignition is good for 4-5HP through the whole range especially bottom and mid, top end also up. Check out the dyno sheet from Vortex site. They have a dyno chart comparing yosh pip with and without vortex, major gains with the ignition and that pipe. As soon as the frozen tundra of NY is ridable i can can give a first hand report.

To be fair that bottom end is so far down on the bottom if your a fast rider you may never even hit that weak spot. For me being slow i need just a bit more bottom and mid. Otherwise this is the best handling dirt bike ive ever ridden. Take with a grain of salt coming from a 30+ C rider.

brocsdad wrote:

It appears to be down all the way up to about 9K rpms. If you could fill in that gap you would have a great motor. Due to sponsors I would have to use FMF. I will check out the Vortex site. Yes Honda's handle like a dream!

Photo

Wow!! Is that for real??? The honda cant be THAT far down on power in that rpm range, it would get slaughtered by the other brands in a race and from what ive seen so far in SX and reports from test riders, including Keefer it doest seem to be THAT weak of an engine.

I remember when this bike was just about to come out, some of the honda guys got quoted saying that with some good engine mods, this new engine would be capable of making HP that could put up numbers dam close to a 450!

Itll be interesting with the way this bike is a top end rev monster, how the Geico guyswill do on it in the Outdoors. Too bad JMart is going 450 outdoorsthis year, hed demolish everyone on a 250f with that much power on top

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1/24/2018 12:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2018 12:21 AM

wfopete wrote:

The CRF motor is a flawed design and can not make the torque/hp the ktm can without designing new factory castings.
Find a fabricator and drop a 250 KTM motor in it. Sell the CRF motor and apply the money for recouping some of your loss. Next time think before you buy.

Underground wrote:

Please share your wisdom.
BTW, it's an engine. Motor = electric

BobPA wrote:

Do you enjoy your enginecycle?

A motor is a machine that converts other forms of energy into mechanical energy and so imparts motion.

An engine is a motor that converts thermal energy to mechanical work.

An engine is a specific type of motor....

Take a seat bro.

Wow. I see your wisdom ran out at quoting Wikileaks.
But then there's this:
To summarize, you can either equate an engine with a) any machine, or b) a thermal engine, or c) any machine that transforms kinetic energy to/from another form of energy. A motor is any machine that transforms another form of energy to linear or rotational kinetic energy.
Now I suggest you take a seat. At the back of the class.

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1/24/2018 4:16 AM

JM is due to join the little loser red bike ranks soon as his 450 stint ends. There will bill plenty of these little loser red bikes in dealer inventory by the end of the year. Seems Honda has little interest in building a competitive 250 motor; I mean engine. Maybe Honda is focusing their R&D on an electric bike...with a competitive motor. unsure In the meantime all you 250 Honda riders can enjoy your 125 style power as you will have the track to yourselves until the leaders lap you.

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