2017 Sherco 300

harescrambled
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7/30/2017 2:42pm
a little bit of porn... [img]http://ambetaimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/471.jpg[/img]
a little bit of porn...

interesting that they can run a case reed design and be sooooo smooth with power delivery
Johnny Depp
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7/30/2017 3:40pm
a little bit of porn... [img]http://ambetaimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/471.jpg[/img]
a little bit of porn...

interesting that they can run a case reed design and be sooooo smooth with power delivery
They build 17 different models of Trials bikes getting experience in smooth power for a long time. They even have a model called the SS Super Smooth.
https://www.betausa.com/byob/MotoTrial



Case reed trials engines


Derpin' DJ
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7/31/2017 1:26am
This thread sparked me to check out my local Sherco dealer. Want a 250, but they pretty much forced me to try out the 300 (albeit on the road). That thing had a crapload of power - the power switch really is effective at softening the delivery. Ergos felt really nice.

I really want to get a 250, but they've got a nice deal on this now. Decisions decisions
rangot
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7/31/2017 2:24am
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed closely by HVA. The others are not even close. Power is smoother, no vibrations, OK suspensions and now injection, they're the way to go. The Sherco is a very thin and nimble bike, but the engine is not as smooth and effective as the Austrian's. Same for the Beta. The TM's has a more old-school feel. Some like, i don't. When you go from a TM to a KTM, seems like there's 10 years of developpement between the two. Oh wait, there is, actually...

The Shop

rangot
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7/31/2017 2:25am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 2:26am
Derpin' DJ wrote:
This thread sparked me to check out my local Sherco dealer. Want a 250, but they pretty much forced me to try out the 300 (albeit...
This thread sparked me to check out my local Sherco dealer. Want a 250, but they pretty much forced me to try out the 300 (albeit on the road). That thing had a crapload of power - the power switch really is effective at softening the delivery. Ergos felt really nice.

I really want to get a 250, but they've got a nice deal on this now. Decisions decisions
As for the Sherco, the 250 is much more efficient than the 300... The 300 4 stroke is a great biken though.
agn5009
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7/31/2017 7:19am
rangot wrote:
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed...
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed closely by HVA. The others are not even close. Power is smoother, no vibrations, OK suspensions and now injection, they're the way to go. The Sherco is a very thin and nimble bike, but the engine is not as smooth and effective as the Austrian's. Same for the Beta. The TM's has a more old-school feel. Some like, i don't. When you go from a TM to a KTM, seems like there's 10 years of developpement between the two. Oh wait, there is, actually...
So you wouldn't recommend buying a sherco? My feelings are that I should just buy the ktm/husky and be done with it.
7/31/2017 7:52am
Luckily, I ride with a pretty diverse group of guys and we all trade bikes back and forth on fun days. One guy is a Sherco "quasi-marketing-helper-guy" and has a Sherco Factory 300 four stroke and the 300 two stroke. I've ridden both quite a few times and they're fantastic bikes right out of the crate. A few quick items on each bike below:
300 4-stroke: Have to rev it to race fast it seems. Handles well. Like all Sherco's I have ridden it's a front end steering bike.
300 2-stroke: Vibrates a lot into your hands. Lots of power when setup properly. Turns on a dime. Feels tall on the front end.

This past weekend I also got to ride a buddy's 2017 KTM 300XC as well as a really decked out Beta 300. Some quick impressions:
2017 KTM 300: Soooo smooth. The counter balancer is amazing. Very linear bike. The AER forks were pretty solid as well. I really have nothing bad to say about this bike other than the carb (Lectron) was a bit too lean feeling to me.
2015 Beta 300: Again, this bike is decked out and nowhere near stock. The motor pull is very good. The ergos feel very similar to late model KTM's to me.

Then my bike. I'll just mention a few items people have said to me when they ride it as I'm obviously biased. They usually think it'll be unmanageable in tight woods, but are quite surprised after they ride it.
2017 KTM 450XC-F: Extremely smooth off the bottom end on Map 1 w/TC on. Pulls hard to the mid-range. Really light. Good suspension. Lots of engine braking.

It really depends on what terrain you mostly ride, what level you ride at, and what power characteristic you prefer. All of the current crop of bikes built specifically for offroad are fantastic. For me, I'm 6'2'' @170lbs and ride Vet-A and usually finish towards the front of my class and catch a few Pro-2 guys in the midwest. It's a lot of tight/technical trails with tree roots and logs. I rode a 2014 Husaberg TE250 the last couple of seasons and it's great at the technical stuff, but gets a bit unpredictable at high speeds. My current bike (2017 KTM 450XC-F) is Fast and pulls how I wanted a bike to pull off the bottom and doesn't need to be revved to go fast.

If I were to get a new bike now or in the near future, I'd be seriously considering the KTM 300XC-TPI depending on how reliable the TPI system is. The main reason is the availability of products for the KTM and the counterbalancer. If you get a chance, try a counterbalanced KTM and then another 2-stroke without one. It's absolutely crazy not all 2-stroke manufacturers for offroad don't implement it.
Johnny Depp
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7/31/2017 10:44am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 10:48am
I hear a lot of people assume that Beta's are hard to source accessories for. Here's just one source that has 451 items for 2t's and the same for 4t's. http://www.motosupply.com/beta-beta-c-273_299.html My experience is it's much easier to find suppliers than it is the cash to buy them Grinning Beta USA carries everything and you can have it pre-installed with free labor and a credit for take off parts in most cases. I don't know of anyone else that let's you customize your bike up front?

Having ridden the KTM at demo days I didn't notice anything other than bad carburetion. The difference between counterbalanced and not is slight to none. Beta has the cases built to adapt counterbalancing and has for years never pursued it. After putting oil injection on the 2t RR's many of them have seen extended time on the roads without people losing their fillings from their teeth.

BobPA
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7/31/2017 11:24am
I hear a lot of people assume that Beta's are hard to source accessories for. Here's just one source that has 451 items for 2t's and...
I hear a lot of people assume that Beta's are hard to source accessories for. Here's just one source that has 451 items for 2t's and the same for 4t's. http://www.motosupply.com/beta-beta-c-273_299.html My experience is it's much easier to find suppliers than it is the cash to buy them Grinning Beta USA carries everything and you can have it pre-installed with free labor and a credit for take off parts in most cases. I don't know of anyone else that let's you customize your bike up front?

Having ridden the KTM at demo days I didn't notice anything other than bad carburetion. The difference between counterbalanced and not is slight to none. Beta has the cases built to adapt counterbalancing and has for years never pursued it. After putting oil injection on the 2t RR's many of them have seen extended time on the roads without people losing their fillings from their teeth.

You must be very biased or a bad test rider if you cannot feel the difference between the counterbalanced KTM and The old design.
Johnny Depp
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7/31/2017 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 1:14pm
I hear a lot of people assume that Beta's are hard to source accessories for. Here's just one source that has 451 items for 2t's and...
I hear a lot of people assume that Beta's are hard to source accessories for. Here's just one source that has 451 items for 2t's and the same for 4t's. http://www.motosupply.com/beta-beta-c-273_299.html My experience is it's much easier to find suppliers than it is the cash to buy them Grinning Beta USA carries everything and you can have it pre-installed with free labor and a credit for take off parts in most cases. I don't know of anyone else that let's you customize your bike up front?

Having ridden the KTM at demo days I didn't notice anything other than bad carburetion. The difference between counterbalanced and not is slight to none. Beta has the cases built to adapt counterbalancing and has for years never pursued it. After putting oil injection on the 2t RR's many of them have seen extended time on the roads without people losing their fillings from their teeth.

BobPA wrote:
You must be very biased or a bad test rider if you cannot feel the difference between the counterbalanced KTM and The old design.
Sure I drink red kool aid. That doesn't change that the KTM 300W that I rode felt peaky like a 250. There was no lasting impression of no vibration, perhaps if I had ridden the older model back to back it would have been more apparent.

Counterbalance is not a new thing, there were rave reviews on the Gas Gas last built in '99 with one, although there were some built with it by special request and it was used in karts and ATV's long after. A properly balanced crankshaft can eliminate the need for the cost, weight and wear associated with them. It is well known that a 4t's valve train contributes (negatively) to rotating mass. While vibration loss is desired, in a 2t for extreme riding you are playing with the ease of handling at higher RPM's when you add rotating mass, the same reason allegedly Gas Gas dropped it.

Riddle this little coincidence: In the modern era of World Championship Enduro KTM/Husky(2015) won Enduro 3 (E3) – 290 to 500 cc 2-stroke or 475 - 650 cc 4-stroke 11 out of 12 times with (RIP) Mika Ahola and Honda on the 450 the only one to break that streak (in 2011). Austrians bikes ruled the roost in every conceivable way. Now fast forward to 2016 and 2017, with the new engine and chassis, and all of a sudden they can't finish the season on the podium in the class they formerly dominated.
BobPA
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7/31/2017 3:11pm
Sure I drink red kool aid. That doesn't change that the KTM 300W that I rode felt peaky like a 250. There was no lasting impression...
Sure I drink red kool aid. That doesn't change that the KTM 300W that I rode felt peaky like a 250. There was no lasting impression of no vibration, perhaps if I had ridden the older model back to back it would have been more apparent.

Counterbalance is not a new thing, there were rave reviews on the Gas Gas last built in '99 with one, although there were some built with it by special request and it was used in karts and ATV's long after. A properly balanced crankshaft can eliminate the need for the cost, weight and wear associated with them. It is well known that a 4t's valve train contributes (negatively) to rotating mass. While vibration loss is desired, in a 2t for extreme riding you are playing with the ease of handling at higher RPM's when you add rotating mass, the same reason allegedly Gas Gas dropped it.

Riddle this little coincidence: In the modern era of World Championship Enduro KTM/Husky(2015) won Enduro 3 (E3) – 290 to 500 cc 2-stroke or 475 - 650 cc 4-stroke 11 out of 12 times with (RIP) Mika Ahola and Honda on the 450 the only one to break that streak (in 2011). Austrians bikes ruled the roost in every conceivable way. Now fast forward to 2016 and 2017, with the new engine and chassis, and all of a sudden they can't finish the season on the podium in the class they formerly dominated.
How does comparing results from year to year like that prove anything? I would say it would be on the riders more so than the bikes. Go to an off-road event and it is an absolute sea of orange. I have a Kawi 250 smoker so I am truely the odd man out ha.
Johnny Depp
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8/1/2017 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2017 4:36pm
Yes, your Husqvarna is a company with such a great history that the current ownership has nothing but the name. Gas Gas went Bankrupt and closed...
Yes, your Husqvarna is a company with such a great history that the current ownership has nothing but the name.

Gas Gas went Bankrupt and closed down. Torrot bought the name and tooling. It is an all new bike that has yet to arrive in dealers.
Katoomey wrote:
i dont give a shit what brand bike i ride. Im not a fanboy. Anyway, you are living proof that PR really does work. GasGas has...
i dont give a shit what brand bike i ride. Im not a fanboy.

Anyway, you are living proof that PR really does work. GasGas has new owners. Thats it. And the bike is already out. Its essentially the same motorcycle, with new specs. Of course they're going to say its all new.
Berni wrote:
Sorry but the new gas gas is a whole new bike. All but the engine is completely new. You are thinking about the 17 gas gas...
Sorry but the new gas gas is a whole new bike. All but the engine is completely new. You are thinking about the 17 gas gas that is the same as the 15... But the new 18 is completely different
Here's the All new Gas Gas 1st test by Cycle News. Pg.90

http://magazine.cyclenews.com/i/855895-cycle-news-issue-30-august-1-2017
FTB
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8/1/2017 4:32pm
[img]https://s1.dmcdn.net/eah7D.jpg[/img]
Geez, that frame looks a lot lighter than previous models, checkout the frame cradle Blink

gsxr6
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8/1/2017 5:56pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2017 6:04pm
How come nobody is pointing out that the frame is by wp, and an almost exact copy of the 2015 Ktm mx frame....
Johnny Depp
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8/2/2017 5:10am Edited Date/Time 8/2/2017 5:13am
rangot wrote:
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed...
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed closely by HVA. The others are not even close. Power is smoother, no vibrations, OK suspensions and now injection, they're the way to go. The Sherco is a very thin and nimble bike, but the engine is not as smooth and effective as the Austrian's. Same for the Beta. The TM's has a more old-school feel. Some like, i don't. When you go from a TM to a KTM, seems like there's 10 years of developpement between the two. Oh wait, there is, actually...
Rangot, (is that you Stefan?) your opinion seems to differ from the majority. "The others are not even close"? disqualifies you. "Power is smoother" The '17's have carburetion issues which are well documented and affect bottom end power. The '18's so far (250 only to the US) have pointed to a lack of bottom power with the FI. "The Sherco-engine is not as smooth and effective as the Austrian's. Same for the Beta." Read the previous sentence again. The Beta has been reviewed by Dirt Bike Test as "This is a very good engine." http://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2016-beta-300rr/#lBQe0TlxquiixDgR.97 and I respect their opinion more than yours or your magazine (in French so we don't bother)
Johnny Depp
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8/2/2017 5:12am
gsxr6 wrote:
How come nobody is pointing out that the frame is by wp, and an almost exact copy of the 2015 Ktm mx frame....
I think you just did..
WDSRCR
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8/2/2017 6:10am
Except for the 2018 GG, I have ridden most or all of the bikes mentioned in this thread.

I was fortunate enough to ride Nick Fahringer's Sherco SE-R 300 right after he got it. It was still stock aside from being jetted correctly.

The Sherco was nice. The cockpit and ergos feel compact. The handling was good and the power was very linear. The day I rode it, the morning started off very slick with the dirt tacking up nicely by end of day. For 99% of people the power and delivery is probably perfect. I prefer a little more hit than it provided but the new SC model that Nick is riding provides that.

I last owned a Gas Gas in 2012. I had an 05 EC300 also. The 05 was a decent bike, had good power but was heavy. It didn't show its weight too much due to being a low bike with a low center of gravity. Braking was the only giveaway that it was as heavy as it was.

My 2012 GG was a fun bike with AWESOME power. The suspension was great that year with Ohlins in the rear and the Marzocchi PFP out front. The bike was very heavy though and was more noticeable than the 05. Again, braking was where I especially noticed the weight.

I got the opportunity to demo a 2016 Beta 300 from a local dealer and we went out riding with a KTM 250XCW and a YZ250 to compare it to. The beta felt light, the cockpit was compact and felt nice but I thought the handling was very twitchy at speed. It very tight gnarly trail, it wasn't a problem but when the trail got Sandy and opened up, it wanted to shake around and deflect. The brakes and engine were good though.

I was offered a sponsorship deal last year on a TM144EN. I rode it and really liked it. Extremely fast engine, good forks. The ergos felt large. The whole bike felt big. It wasn't heavy per see but just felt large in area. The shock seemed very odd as well. I passed on the deal and bought my current bikes.

The previous two years, I raced A 200 in a couple regional series on a 2015 KTM 200XCW.

This year I am on a KTM 250 XC and I have a 150 XCW as well. The Poster above who said he couldn't tell a difference between older bikes and the new CB engine is either oblivious or being disingenuous because there is no comparison between them. My XC has an amazing engine. I dare say it's almost too much at times. The AER fork was an unknown to me at first but I have found some settings that are really good and rival my custom closed chamber conversions I had on my 200. The 150 is truly a gem though. I don't get to ride it a lot because my wife spends most of her time on it but when I do get to ride it, I always wish I had just bought 2 of them instead of my 250.

These are all just my personal observations and opinions, you may or may not see things the same. There are plenty of good bikes out there right now and I wouldn't feel like I was at a disadvantage on any of them. Buy the one you like, spend some time setting it up and then ride it. I guarantee you'll enjoy it.
WDSRCR
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8/2/2017 6:14am
rangot wrote:
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed...
I have tested all those bikes as it is my job for a French publication called Enduro Magazine. KTM is the best all around package, followed closely by HVA. The others are not even close. Power is smoother, no vibrations, OK suspensions and now injection, they're the way to go. The Sherco is a very thin and nimble bike, but the engine is not as smooth and effective as the Austrian's. Same for the Beta. The TM's has a more old-school feel. Some like, i don't. When you go from a TM to a KTM, seems like there's 10 years of developpement between the two. Oh wait, there is, actually...
Rangot, (is that you Stefan?) your [i]opinion[/i] seems to differ from the majority. "The others are not even close"? disqualifies you. "Power is smoother" The '17's...
Rangot, (is that you Stefan?) your opinion seems to differ from the majority. "The others are not even close"? disqualifies you. "Power is smoother" The '17's have carburetion issues which are well documented and affect bottom end power. The '18's so far (250 only to the US) have pointed to a lack of bottom power with the FI. "The Sherco-engine is not as smooth and effective as the Austrian's. Same for the Beta." Read the previous sentence again. The Beta has been reviewed by Dirt Bike Test as "This is a very good engine." http://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2016-beta-300rr/#lBQe0TlxquiixDgR.97 and I respect their opinion more than yours or your magazine (in French so we don't bother)
I have read all over the Internet about carburation issues but I was able to jet my 250XC with the provided jets and needles. Most everyone else I know who bought a JD jet kit are pleased as well.

I think if people spent more time riding and less time tinkering and complaining on the internet, they would be far better off.

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