2017 CRF450R vs 2019 KTM 350 SXF

Hi all,

I’m Jake and am a long-time reader, but this will be my first post. I’m trying to give additional information on the 350 vs 450 topic that I spent hours reading over and really pondering over before I settled on a new KTM 350 over getting a new 450. I literally was at the dealership and rode both because I still couldn’t decide. My personal decision was between the KTM 350 vs 450, but I recently spent a lot of time on the CRF450, so I figured I’d give my opinions between the 350 vs 450 as I’m glad I made the change to a 350 and I hope to provide more insight to you guys!

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My stats:
Jake W.
27 years old
70% MX track. 30% rut track riding.
155 lbs
5’ 9”
Novice rider



2017 Honda CRF450R - 50 hours

Motor:

As most talk about the Honda 450, this motor is insane. It’s super-fast and very responsive which I enjoyed since I like to lug my bike I could leave it in 3rd for turns and could upshift into 4th for jumps which made the bike feel predictable when coming off the face of a jump. I could use 3rd through the corner and up to the face and then up shift into 4th (if it was a larger jump) and then just roll the throttle on off the face which gave me more confidence. I geared this bike 13:50 which allowed me to carry 3rd in tight ruts and also allowed me to further short shift this bike which helped with the overly powerful engine.

Where I didn’t like the engine was when I was tired. I’d do a few laps and then it just got to be a hand full and honestly I wasn’t having fun on it anymore (as you tend to hear about with 450’s). The bike began to ride me, and I felt like I had to really control the power and be careful. When I was on my 03 CR250R I could ride 20-minute moto’s no problem but the 450 I could only do it late into summer when I was in my peak shape for the year and still would have one or two scares going through braking bumps and barely touching the throttle and the thing jumping out on me. It would cause me to almost crash or go over a berm because I wasn’t expecting it to come alive and it would just almost jump out of my hands. This instant torque and hard pull is what would give me arm pump and really make me tired compared to how the 350 makes it’s power.

*I did send the ECU off to Tokyo Mods to get an even softer map as well as a standard map. I would run the map in the Tokyo Mods soft map always.

Chassis:

This is the bikes largest weakness.

I did just about everything I could outside of motor mounts (which I would have done next if I kept it this summer). I did a ride engineering link, suspension set for my weight, ran a 2015 CRF steering stabilizer in a stiffer setting, added sag 106-108mm, and ran the forks flush. I would still get head shake and the bike just felt nervous and unpredictable. I could turn very sharp on the bike but being nervous everywhere resulted in a scary bike especially on downhills with braking bumps. This along with the motor, resulted in a bike that only looked good in the garage but not something I wanted to go out and throw down moto’s on. I have heard that running the RX motor mounts or going to the WCL or FCP motor mounts would have resulted in a more compliant chassis, but there is honestly only so much this Honda can get.

Go to your dealer and sit on a Honda CRF450R and then go sit on a KTM 450. The KTM’s 450 is so much more plush and you feel the bike actually squat down when you sit on it. The Honda hardly moves when you sit on it as it is just so ridged which makes it hard to set up and be comfortable on! The stiff chassis and barky motor makes this bike an excited and fun bike to ride but it gets scary quick!




Suspension:

The suspension is great on this bike!

I love spring forks and once I set the springs up for my weight the bike was much more comfortable (outside of the chassis feel). I did feel like in an attempt to make the bike more balanced however, the suspension did have to suffer. What I mean by this is that in an attempt to get the rear end to settle down and not be so stink bugged, I had to go out 3.5 turns on the high speed rebound which made the rear end settle quite well in ruts and flat corners but because it was softer, it would blow through the stroke a little quicker. Maybe because I’m light but I felt like the suspension and chassis just didn’t’ work well together, the chassis was stiff while the suspension was plush and comfortable. It really helped the set up on the bike and made the bike track better (when coming out of a corner hard on the gas) but the chassis was still ridged when coming up to the next corner and hitting breaking bumps.

Overall, the suspension on this bike is great and you can’t beat the feel of the spring fork! It’s very predictable with little maintenance and I appreciated that!

Brakes:

Not really any complaints with the brakes outside of the front brake was a little grabby compared to the KTM’s Brembo’s and the rear pads lasted me one summer which is odd. I normally get about two seasons on pads, so they didn’t last long.

The rear brake was also very vague feeling which I feel like is a Honda thing. Not a bad thing but you really can notice it running the KTM and Honda back to back.





Clutch:

As we all know the Honda’s clutch needs work. I ran almost a month maybe two and then found that when wide open it started slipping as I was about to hit a step up (was sketchy) so I went to the Rekluse torq drive clutch plate kit which made the connectivity to the rear wheel really nice! Easier lever pull and it just seemed less “on/off” compared to the stock one. I also added a Magura hydraulic clutch which made it even better! I did notice that for this bike anyways you couldn’t adjust it and it seemed to put a lot of “strain” on the clutch. Like popping the bike into gear, it seemed a little more harsh than the cable lever.

The Honda shifted great but comparing the KTM to the Honda I feel like the Honda hits neutral much easier while out on the track. You just have to be careful and really ensure you get that upshift to 2nd clean if you went into 1st or while in 2nd don’t mistakenly bump the shifter down. The KTM is much better in this regard but no real complaints with the Honda’s tranny!

Reliability:

The bike was great at about 50 hours it always started (although with no electric start it took longer than it should have at about 3 kicks on average) and the fit and finish on the Honda is top notch! Pulling out bolts and putting them back in was seamless and easy and I just felt like you could own the bike for more than a few years and it’ll last.

I’m hard on clutches but was easy on the motor as I never hit the rev limiter (for some context of how I ride and treat things). I would do the air filter every ride or every other ride depending on conditions and how long I would ride. If I rode for an hour at the track without much dust I’d probably do one more track day on that filter resulting in about 3 hours of run time in moderate conditions.

For the engine oil I would change it at about every 3 hours, and I felt that it would then begin to discolor so I’d change it. The ran the OEM Honda stuff that was only $20.00 for 4 liters. Not too back especially compared to the $70.00 KTM stuff!

Coolant: I ran engine ice and never had any issues with the bike using any coolant like others we all have read about. I guess I was lucky!



Living with:

Overall, I really wanted to keep this bike and just keep getting CRF450’s forever (even the CRF250R) but man they have a lot of work to do compared to the orange bikes! I feel like with the motor being so fast and having to send the ECU to Tokyo Mods to get a softer map along with the stiff and harsh chassis that is sketchy and difficult to sent up and be comfortable on, I’d personally pass for this generation of Honda for lighter and slower guys! There are other bikes on the market that are much better out of the box and even after putting almost 2K into the Honda, I still wasn’t happy.

Performance Mods/Settings:
1. Race tech front & rear springs for 155 lbs Novice rider
2. Ride Engineering link
3. Tokyo Mods ECU reflash
4. MIKA Metals oversized handlebars
5. Changed some engine mount and swing arm pivot bolt torque specs decreasing the torq specs per Kris Keefer’s recommendations. It was about 2-3 lbs per bolt.

*I believe these all could have some effect on the overall bike worth mentioning.




2019 KTM SXF 350 - 6 hours

Motor:

This motor is so fun! It definitely has more of a 250f characteristic where you have to rev it into the mid-range for it to move but when watching other reviews, I kept hearing about how much you have to rev it for it to be fast and this simply isn’t true for 95% of us weekend warriors. Yes, I have to rev it more than my CRF450R to hit the same jumps but it’s not like it’s difficult to make them and I’m not hanging it out screaming the 350 to get over them.

Rev the 350 into the mid-range and it’s a wonderful bike. You don’t have to run around the track at 13K for you to go fast for us weekend warriors! The 450 I’d be running around the track at about 6,000 – 9,500 RPM and the 350 it’s about 7,000 – 10,000 RPM.

The motor is so lively and just feels like it’s in better shape compared to the 450 and makes deceiving power. For example: There’s this decent sized table that has a few small rollers before it with a decent run up to it. On the 350 I can go into the inside, mess up the rut and still make it over being in the upper part of 3rd or 4th being in lower rpms. You just have to shift from 2nd into 3rd coming out of the rut and then if you want to hit the face in a lower gear like I do, you have to shift again. The 450 motor can go from 3rd to 4th and simply jump it.

The motor feels a bit sluggish when in sand/fresh deep tracks if in the wrong gear or if you try and really bog it like the 450 (I’m guilty of initially trying to lug this 350) but I’ve come to realize that I can’t lug it and will leave it in gear the next lap for that section and she just keeps pulling and pulling in that lower gear. It was just an adjustment coming off the 450 more than anything.

When you’re riding it fast and revving the bike in the mid-range it feels very similar to the 450 in terms of overall pulling power. It just doesn’t sign off at the top so you can leave it if you’d like which is a cool thing.

While revving it into the mid-range the motor also doesn’t bind up the chassis, it feels free and the bike is still willing to change direction while engine braking coming into a corner. It’s not as free as a 2 stroke but in my opinion it’s a perfect amount of engine braking as the 2 strokes get a little loose in the rear and you have to really apply and watch the breaks, while the 450’s really bind the chassis and really slow you down. This 350 keeps the rear end planted and still allows the bike to move around freely. It’s a great feeling motor and chassis combination.

Chassis:

This is my favorite part of the bike! It does everything that I wanted the Honda to do right out of the box!

It is extremely compliant and is so easy to set up! No crazy head shake or fear of going fast and the bike doing weird and unpredictable things. It was a sign of relief when I first took it out! I was carving berms on this sand track which is my weakness and I felt comfortable on it right away. The front end doesn’t tuck like the Honda and it corners very well. For me, I feel like this 350 will corner better than the Honda because the Honda is so nervous setting up into the rut. The 350 just follows the ground nicely and allows you to put minimal input and it just does the work for you.

As for braking bumps this thing is a couch! I love when the tracks get rough and rutty and I tend to hit the slow lines to hit the bumps since I think they’re fun. Lol. It soaks them up so well and the bike has great feedback but isn’t harsh or over reactive. The entire bike stays flat over the bumps and you can hold your line extremely well while heading to whatever rut you’re going for in the next turn.



Suspension:

The WP air forks aren’t as bad as I thought they were going to be!

Outside of harder tracked tracks its hard for me to feel a difference between them and spring forks! Once the track gets harder throughout the day, I get a familiar air fork feel when going over smooth ish bumps, but this air fork feels nothing like my brothers 2015 CRF450R KYB air forks in how vague those felt.

These WP air forks feel like a spring fork 90% of the time to me with no front-end vagueness feeling at all that seems to plague other air forks. My largest gripe is having to check them before I ride, and I check them about every other moto to ensure the air pressure doesn’t rise. They seemed to rise about 2 PSI (I think 3 PSI is 1 BAR for those who are familiar with BAR) during the first couple of hours but after only 6 hours the forks don’t seem to rise more than 1 PSI all day. Speaking of which, I can tell between 1 PSI which could just be me and that I can tell very small changes. I like running 149 PSI and when it’s at 148 I can tell it’s a little soft off of landings and in the corner the front end dives just a tad too much but at 150 PSI it’s a bit stiff off of landings and the front end pushes a little coming into corners. It could just be me being sensitive to changes, but this is one thing that I dislike about the air forks. 149 PSI is spot on, but I can be doing my 2nd moto and if I don’t check them and they build to 150 PSI, I’m not getting a favorable feel in the corners and I’ll be focused on that during my moto which can be annoying.

The rear end is great, and I have no real complaints at all about the rear end. I slowed rebound 2 clicks, set my sag to 103mm (I’m going to try 105mm as recommended but feel like the bike is nearly perfect at 103mm) and just run it. It stays level coming into turns both sitting or standing and tracks very well with great traction on acceleration chop and rough choppy ruts. I also haven’t felt like the rear end is overly reactive like on the Honda. I’m not quite sure if this is due to the Honda’s chassis but the KTM’s rear end doesn’t get that side to side kick or swabbing as much as the Honda. I think it’s a combination between the chassis and rear suspension being set up well.

Overall, anyone who is on the fence about getting a KTM or husky due to the air forks, I’d highly suggest you try it out as they are great overall, and I’d say that 99% of us can live with them! You also can do the KYB inserts or go to the cone valve fork if you’re really into the spring fork feel but for me and costs associated, I’m going to just to run stock as I plan on getting a new 350 every 2-3 years. I do believe that the cone valves come with the tubes and you could change those from bike to bike which may change my mind about them!

Brakes:

Great overall!

I feel like the front brakes have great modulation and I can really get a smooth squeeze on them. For example, there’s this tricky section at my local track that goes: Right-handed 90-degree corner, downhill of about 15 ft of elevation slightly off camber, and into a left-handed 90 degree turn and I love taking the inside rut (I love ruts!).

With these Brembo’s I can start to lean left and be heading towards the inside rut while smoothly braking as I enter the rut. The Honda’s front brake was fairly smooth but a lot more grabby compared to these Brembo’s (especially when you get tired and applying smooth lever pull is harder). I did have aftermarket ARC levers on the CRF which I tried putting on the KTM and they did feel like I had less modulation. I went back to the stock Brembo levers. “Stock is best” as per usual! This could have negatively affected the Honda’s brakes for this comparison!

The rear brake is also very modular, and I feel has so much better feel that my Honda’s CRF450R! The CRF450R rear brake felt vague while the KTM’s is smooth and I can feel the area of engagement which is great for tricky downhill off camber sections going into deep ruts or coming into a corner!
I feel like I can use the rear brake to slide the rear end around more which is really weird because I’m 100% a front end steering guy and never do this, but I’ve found on some berms it’s quite easy to use the rear brake to drift a little coming into the turn and bank off of it and then accelerate out. Something I never would have dreamed doing with the Honda!

Clutch:

I don’t have a long-term review on this clutch but so far I really enjoy the Brembo hydraulic clutch!

When clicking into gear is very smooth and sometimes it doesn’t even do the “Click” that most clutches do. It’s just buttery smooth and in gear!

I haven’t experienced any slipping from the clutch yet like I did on my Honda which is great. I plan on running these stock plates for the summer and then over the winter replacing the plates with a Rekluse torq drive clutch pack or have been thinking of trying an auto clutch for fun!

The shift lever took a little getting used to compared to the Honda as it was weird upshifting but after a few rides I’m used to the foot lever feel and can nail my shifts.

Reliability:

So far this bike has been great but again, I don’t have a long-term review on this like I did with the Honda. I will admit that the fit and finish doesn’t seem to be as top notch on the KTM compared to the Honda.

What I mean by this is the KTM uses a lot of plastic where the Honda utilizes metal (I’m sure to aid in the weight savings). The retaining lock spindle on the rear shock to retain the spring for example. The KTM’s is plastic so you have to be very careful and can’t beat on it like the Honda’s. Right tool for the right job I suppose!

Also, there are these almost wood screws for some of the plastic that haven’t given me any issues but I can imagine that I wouldn’t want to take them in and out over the next 4-5 years as they could strip pretty easily which compared to the Honda which isn’t an issue.

Lastly, the KTM’s bolts just seem more finicky and have more issues threading in compared to the Honda. The sub-frame torxs bolt for example was a nightmare rethreading on the KTM. I was changing my plastic to the all-orange plastic and couldn’t get it back in. I had to be very careful not to cross thread and it’s just a headache. The Honda’s bolts all just threaded in smoothly and I never had any issues.
So far, If I couldn’t afford to purchase bikes ever 2-3 years I’d go with the Japanese bikes Honda or Yamaha for longevity.

*Note: This could change if the KTM proves to not strip bolts like I’m currently suspecting may occur with years of use.

Living with:

So far the KTM is a dream to live with! Setting it up and getting comfortable on this bike was so simple and most importantly, fun! I haven’t had this much fun on a bike since I got off my CR. I’d always pull off the track on the 450 going this could be better or I need to change this or that while this KTM is so much fun to ride! I put gas in it, adjust/lube the chain, and go have fun! I also haven’t spent like 2k in mods to get the thing comfortable! I bought the bike, a few goodies for fun, and ride it.
It makes me excited to ride and I’ve been really enjoying this bike outside of attempting to not trash the treads. Lol.

Mods/Settings:
P3 Carbon Hybrid Skid plate (I didn’t notice any rigidity changes).
Flow Radiator guards (I didn’t notice any rigidity changes).
All stock other than these changes!

Thanks guys! Let me know what you think about the 350 vs 450 discussion and lets talk! As long as we all enjoy our bikes that's what really matters!