2014 Motocross Champion is..Barcia or Stewart?

5/20/2014 1:24pm
Roczen had a great rookie 450f sx season. Barcia didn't have consistent starts and his DNF's set him back. In the end, Roczen didn't match up...
Roczen had a great rookie 450f sx season. Barcia didn't have consistent starts and his DNF's set him back. In the end, Roczen didn't match up to Barcia's sx speed. Roczen will only get better. I still think the 2013 Factory Honda was a piece of shit on outdoor tracks. Reed looked like a 7th place rider at best. He switches to Kawi and lights up the SX tracks. I don't believe Roczen can run with Barcia all season long in only his first season on a 450f. We'll see........
I think you are blind.Pinch
5/20/2014 2:10pm
Huckster wrote:
He didnt beat Barcia most of the summer. Did you not read the part about head to head they each won 12 moto's? Yes, Tomac did...
He didnt beat Barcia most of the summer. Did you not read the part about head to head they each won 12 moto's? Yes, Tomac did win more overalls but they each beat the other 12 out of the 24 motos so I am not really understanding your logic. Was Tomac not racing for the Championship in the other 22 motos?

Tomac is a great rider, but strip away the bias, look at the results head to head and it tells the real story. Not to mention their respective 450Sx results this year. I don't think either will win the 450 title outdoors this year but to try to say that Tomac out rode Justin in the 2012 outdoors simply is not true. The only way to truly compare riders is by results in a series where they went head to head on the same tracks on the same day. Trying to compare rookie season to rookie season,alt.etc. is not nearly as accurate an indicator as Head to head IMHO.
Trying to compare rookie season to rookie season,alt.etc. is not nearly as accurate an indicator as Head to head IMHO.

Why not? I mean maybe it's not "accurate", but I think it's definitely fair.

BobPA has been arguing that Tomac is not "on a different level" than Barcia outdoors because last time they raced a series together Barcia out-pointed Tomac. I'm saying that Tomac was only in his 3rd year as a pro, and that clearly in the second half of the season he upped his game to well above Barcia's, which can be seen in the fact that he bettered Barcia in seven motos straight going into Elsinore moto 2, and would surely have made it eight straight and secured 2nd in points had Baggett -- not Barcia, it's important to note -- not "broken" him in moto 1, as Emig said. (Well, actually he said Baggett "has broke" him.)

Tomac left the 250 class a year later on a different level than Barica ever was outdoors, with an mx title in hand. If you think Barcia's going to beat Tomac this year, say it's because Eli's a rookie, or because he's coming into it inured. Don't point to their 250 careers, because they won't back your cause.

Barcia will occasionally ahve the speed+starts to run with Dungey, but not often enough to beat him for the title. That goes for everyone but Stewart, I believe. Based only on what they're capable of---between JS and JB, it's gotta be JS.
Huckster
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5/20/2014 2:28pm
Huckster wrote:
He didnt beat Barcia most of the summer. Did you not read the part about head to head they each won 12 moto's? Yes, Tomac did...
He didnt beat Barcia most of the summer. Did you not read the part about head to head they each won 12 moto's? Yes, Tomac did win more overalls but they each beat the other 12 out of the 24 motos so I am not really understanding your logic. Was Tomac not racing for the Championship in the other 22 motos?

Tomac is a great rider, but strip away the bias, look at the results head to head and it tells the real story. Not to mention their respective 450Sx results this year. I don't think either will win the 450 title outdoors this year but to try to say that Tomac out rode Justin in the 2012 outdoors simply is not true. The only way to truly compare riders is by results in a series where they went head to head on the same tracks on the same day. Trying to compare rookie season to rookie season,alt.etc. is not nearly as accurate an indicator as Head to head IMHO.
Huevos wrote:
Tomac had a reasonable shot at the championship at the last round while Barcia didn't, so Tomac went for it. I think if Tomac wanted to...
Tomac had a reasonable shot at the championship at the last round while Barcia didn't, so Tomac went for it. I think if Tomac wanted to settle for second in points at Lake Elsinore, he could have easily done it. He went for the win, didn't make it happen, and went home. I see your side, but for you to disregard the scenario that took place at Lake Elsinore is bias.
I am not saying the scenario didnt take place but its part of racing. A season is 24 motos long and each counts the same. If if and buts were candy and nuts....Plus in the post above about Roczen you even say " Roczen finished ahead in points. Yet, you think Barcia was better? Okay. You're insane" I agree with you on that. All that matters is where you finish at the END of the season. DNF's, crashes, melt downs are all part of that equation.

@Whoops blitzer , how is it "fair?" your not racing the same competition, your not racing the same race track on the same day. its a meaningless comparison. Apples to apples and you're also full of IF AND BUTS.....how come no one can deal with just the facts and eliminate personal bias?
Huevos
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5/20/2014 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 5/20/2014 4:08pm
Huckster wrote:
I am not saying the scenario didnt take place but its part of racing. A season is 24 motos long and each counts the same. If...
I am not saying the scenario didnt take place but its part of racing. A season is 24 motos long and each counts the same. If if and buts were candy and nuts....Plus in the post above about Roczen you even say " Roczen finished ahead in points. Yet, you think Barcia was better? Okay. You're insane" I agree with you on that. All that matters is where you finish at the END of the season. DNF's, crashes, melt downs are all part of that equation.

@Whoops blitzer , how is it "fair?" your not racing the same competition, your not racing the same race track on the same day. its a meaningless comparison. Apples to apples and you're also full of IF AND BUTS.....how come no one can deal with just the facts and eliminate personal bias?
You're fragmenting the quote. I stated Roczen had better individual performances AND better overall standing in the points. If Barcia won 3-4 races this year while finishing below Roczen in points, I'd agree that it could be argued Barcia had a more impressive season, but that wasn't the case.

Tomac had more wins than Barcia, and was in a championship scenario at the last round (albeit slim, he had one). I'm not arguing that Barcia didn't beat Tomac in points in 2012. My only point is, that it's my opinion that if it was Tomacs goal to win 2nd place and not go for 1st, he could have done it. He risked 2nd place security for a chance at the championship, a position Barcia wasn't in. So yes, Barcia beat Tomac in points, but Tomac lost 2nd place by going for the championship. He also had more moto wins and overall wins than Barcia that year.

Whoops Blitzer makes some good points, too. I see where you're coming from, but I still think that 2012 outdoors, Tomac was more impressive than Barcia.

The Shop

5/20/2014 5:38pm
Roczen had a great rookie 450f sx season. Barcia didn't have consistent starts and his DNF's set him back. In the end, Roczen didn't match up...
Roczen had a great rookie 450f sx season. Barcia didn't have consistent starts and his DNF's set him back. In the end, Roczen didn't match up to Barcia's sx speed. Roczen will only get better. I still think the 2013 Factory Honda was a piece of shit on outdoor tracks. Reed looked like a 7th place rider at best. He switches to Kawi and lights up the SX tracks. I don't believe Roczen can run with Barcia all season long in only his first season on a 450f. We'll see........
Huevos wrote:
So best performances of the season and overall performance of the season mean nothing? Roczen won two races while Barcia didn't win any, and Roczen finished...
So best performances of the season and overall performance of the season mean nothing? Roczen won two races while Barcia didn't win any, and Roczen finished ahead in points. Yet, you think Barcia was better? Okay. You're insane.

The truth is, IN THE END OF THE SEASON, Roczen beat Barcia handily. Barcia didn't match up to Roczen.
I give Roczen credit. His overall rookie SX season was impressive. However, at this point, Barcia is a faster SX rider than Roczen. The Championship points doesn't always show who was faster....only more consistent.
mx 219
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5/20/2014 5:46pm
OK...I'll bet avatars. What do you say to 3 months duration? I can already see a NY Yankee avatar heading your way.
You're on...but Im a Yankee fan. I dont like Barcia so if Barcia wins I'll run some avatar of Barcia.


If you lose, and you will, you have to run this...thanks to Ezza.

Huevos
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5/20/2014 7:10pm
I give Roczen credit. His overall rookie SX season was impressive. However, at this point, Barcia is a faster SX rider than Roczen. The Championship points...
I give Roczen credit. His overall rookie SX season was impressive. However, at this point, Barcia is a faster SX rider than Roczen. The Championship points doesn't always show who was faster....only more consistent.
You know what, I think Dungey was a faster SX rider than Villopoto. Despite Villopoto winning way more races and winning the championship, I think Dungey was faster this year.
Huevos
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5/20/2014 7:16pm
OK...I'll bet avatars. What do you say to 3 months duration? I can already see a NY Yankee avatar heading your way.
I can see Beiber in your future...
5/20/2014 10:19pm
I give Roczen credit. His overall rookie SX season was impressive. However, at this point, Barcia is a faster SX rider than Roczen. The Championship points...
I give Roczen credit. His overall rookie SX season was impressive. However, at this point, Barcia is a faster SX rider than Roczen. The Championship points doesn't always show who was faster....only more consistent.
I agree,
Stewart is the real champion.Tongue
5/20/2014 10:27pm
Huckster wrote:
I am not saying the scenario didnt take place but its part of racing. A season is 24 motos long and each counts the same. If...
I am not saying the scenario didnt take place but its part of racing. A season is 24 motos long and each counts the same. If if and buts were candy and nuts....Plus in the post above about Roczen you even say " Roczen finished ahead in points. Yet, you think Barcia was better? Okay. You're insane" I agree with you on that. All that matters is where you finish at the END of the season. DNF's, crashes, melt downs are all part of that equation.

@Whoops blitzer , how is it "fair?" your not racing the same competition, your not racing the same race track on the same day. its a meaningless comparison. Apples to apples and you're also full of IF AND BUTS.....how come no one can deal with just the facts and eliminate personal bias?
When these two raced in 2012, Barcia was an apple (Senior) and Tomac was an orange (Junior). That's a fact. And while Barcia was busy being a Dungey, Tomac was blowing people's minds (Freestone, Highpoint, Southwick, Unadilla, Elsinore, etc.). That's not an if or a but. But the numbers do say they were very compatible, and it's your right as a citizen of Vital to believe they were.

Well we've sure beaten this fucker to death. Bring on da racing!

We're gonna be watching these two anyway.
stangkag
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5/24/2014 3:02pm
Bummer for Barcia, hoping he comes out for moto 2 fired the hell up. Let's go BAMM BAMM
jasonv43
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5/24/2014 5:39pm
I think you mean Roczen or Dungey?
hey_man
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5/25/2014 6:08pm
Hanaa80 wrote:
It's amazing how little credit people give to Dungey. How many titles does he have to win?
bump

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