2012 - the dark year

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7/2/2012 11:35 AM

RV, Reed, Philiphaerts... ahh f*ck it, there`s too many to count. Crazy.

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7/2/2012 11:37 AM

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

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7/2/2012 11:40 AM

GuyB wrote:

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

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7/2/2012 11:42 AM

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

Correct.

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7/2/2012 11:44 AM

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

Yep.....can only raise the bar so many times before carnage ensues.

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7/2/2012 11:55 AM

GuyB wrote:

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

Agree. A lot of guys out there pushing the edge of the envelope, and not just on race day. Guys are training their asses off trying to find/maintain an edge over the other guy. Riding 4-or-5 days at that level has ultimately got to catch up with you at some point.

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7/2/2012 12:00 PM

The top of both classes have gotten crowded with exceptional talents...the pace is very unforgiving. I'm actually amazed that more aren't hurt.

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If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

7/2/2012 12:01 PM

so you're saying there has never been serious competition before?

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21 TC125
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95 CR250
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7/2/2012 12:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/2/2012 12:03 PM

DoctorJD wrote:

Agree. A lot of guys out there pushing the edge of the envelope, and not just on race day. Guys are training their asses off ...more

Excellent point.

You hear about quite a few guys getting hurt practicing but I often wonder how many "little" injuries from that practice regime result in the nagging injuries that end up causing a bigger wreck on race day?

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7/2/2012 12:04 PM

So this leads us also back to the question.......are 450's too much? I raced the A class for some time through the late 90's to 2006 the age of the 450.....it seems to me that there were do's and don'ts on 250's......or plain capabilitys of the motorcycle. the bikes are just so fast and get so much traction. I know that the bike will do more than i am willing to try a lot of the times and at the level the top guys push them it is flat scary! I don't want to turn this into another two stroke versus 4 stroke....but it sure makes me wonder.

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Did i do that?

7/2/2012 12:11 PM

yota wrote:

so you're saying there has never been serious competition before?

Who said, or who is saying that?? I didn't read anyone saying that.
Either you don't know how to read or you don't have the intellectual capacity to grasp a concept that has a bit of subtlety to it.

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7/2/2012 12:25 PM

yota wrote:

so you're saying there has never been serious competition before?

The Roooster wrote:

Who said, or who is saying that?? I didn't read anyone saying that.
Either you don't know how to read or you don't have the ...more

From wikipedia

Inference is the act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true.

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7/2/2012 12:26 PM

GuyB wrote:

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

GuyB wrote:

Correct.

I also think that there are a few guys who don't get the old saying "To finish first, first you must finish"

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7/2/2012 1:05 PM

BAMX wrote:

From wikipedia

Inference is the act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true.

He wasn't "deriving a logical conclusion" from what had been said. Of course there has always been competition, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise. What there always hasn't been, is the incredible pace that is run these days.

Ask Ivan Tedesco about the pace they run now-a-days.

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7/2/2012 1:16 PM

yota wrote:

so you're saying there has never been serious competition before?

The Roooster wrote:

Who said, or who is saying that?? I didn't read anyone saying that.
Either you don't know how to read or you don't have the ...more

I have the intellectual capacity to grasp that you're a dickhead.

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21 TC125
09 CR500AF
08 Ducati Hypermotard
03 CR125
05 YZ125
95 CR250
83 Husqvarna 125XC

7/2/2012 1:22 PM

yota wrote:

so you're saying there has never been serious competition before?

The Roooster wrote:

Who said, or who is saying that?? I didn't read anyone saying that.
Either you don't know how to read or you don't have the ...more

ever heard the expression "keep a wrinkle in it"?

try it out sometime, bro.

no need to be a hard-on all the time

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7/2/2012 1:33 PM

GuyB wrote:

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

GuyB wrote:

Correct.

DOUBLE CORRECT

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Designer of the PulpMx App and PulpMx Fantasy. Visuals were me; code was MarxDawg.

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7/2/2012 1:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/2/2012 2:34 PM

GuyB wrote:

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

GuyB wrote:

Correct.

So Carmichel and Stewart in their prime weren't going as fast or faster than the top guys now? Stewart was out of commission for 2 years then came back and won the first four motos.

I respect and admire Dungey but he is about the same speed as Reed and Reed wasn't there with Carmichel and Stewart.

RV would run with Carmichel and Stewart. Dungey just seems to be able to finish at a click below the top speed. Seems pretty smart though.

I don't want to turn this into a two vs four thread but at least in sx the bikes have gotten faster on a different type of track and the injuries end up being catostophic.

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7/2/2012 1:34 PM

peelout wrote:

ever heard the expression "keep a wrinkle in it"?

try it out sometime, bro.

no need to be a hard-on all the time

True, and there is no need to post in every single thread that comes across this board, you can try sitting out on a thread or two sometime.

Maybe I am a dickhead, but I can grasp the idea that not every situation in racing is black or white.

To run at the top of the class and keep up with the top guys today requires more speed and more risk than it did in the old days.

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7/2/2012 1:37 PM

I agree it's the competition but also think it's the speed causing injuries like Mitch suggested. He said that by trying to make the tracks safer they have made them easy (everyone can do the same sections) and everyone has to go really fast and ride over the edge to make up any time. He suggested making the tracks rougher, in SX making the whoops bigger, etc... to slow the riders down.

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7/2/2012 1:54 PM

The "so you're saying" guy is on every forum on the inet :flush:

I think it's a combination of the level of competiton, power of bikes and bad luck

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7/2/2012 4:11 PM

MiSledder wrote:

The "so you're saying" guy is on every forum on the inet :flush:

I think it's a combination of the level of competiton, ...more

.......Yes.

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Did i do that?

7/2/2012 5:08 PM

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

GuyB wrote:

Correct.

thatdad wrote:

So Carmichel and Stewart in their prime weren't going as fast or faster than the top guys now? Stewart was out of commission ...more

This talk about Dungey not having the same speed is just wrong. He just chooses to not push that envelope until absolutely necessary. He was right there in all of the motos vs. Stewart and has beaten RV in MX more than once...

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Go Dungey!

7/2/2012 6:18 PM

GuyB wrote:

Correct.

thatdad wrote:

So Carmichel and Stewart in their prime weren't going as fast or faster than the top guys now? Stewart was out of commission ...more

426Hemi wrote:

This talk about Dungey not having the same speed is just wrong. He just chooses to not push that envelope until absolutely ...more

Whatever Dungey does works. Like I said, he certainly has my respect and admiration. He seems to get through the race by keeping the fastest overall speed rather than setting a blistering fast pace. Sometimes it is not who goes the fastest but he who slows down the least.

I was responding to the statement that the injuries were from a new rapid pace that left little room for error. I just don't think the pace is any faster than it was a few years ago when Stewart and Carmichel were going at it.

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7/3/2012 12:59 AM

thatdad wrote:

Whatever Dungey does works. Like I said, he certainly has my respect and admiration. He seems to get through the race by ...more

You're probably right. But in those days there were only two people going that speed. Now you have reed, rv, dungey, canard and Stewart. Basic maths tells us that the odds of those really fast guys wadding up is nearly tripled by the fact there is now 5 fast guys. Add in the fact you have five guys who all wanna push even further, who's egos won't let them stop and you have this result.

All that and a bit of bad luck mixed in

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7/3/2012 3:16 AM

Travis_Hudson wrote:

So this leads us also back to the question.......are 450's too much? I raced the A class for some time through the late 90's ...more

Ding..ding...ding.....winner....

To say the carnage happening in our sport is "bad luck" is about the same as saying the same about someone getting gored while running with the bulls.

To say the level of competition is higher now than in the late 70's (Smith, Hannah, Distefano, Tripes, Pomeroy, Weinert, Howerton) or the mid-80's (Ward, Bailey, Glover, Johnson, Lechien, O'Mara,) is absurd.

Track design? Please. Look back at some of the tracks in the mid to late 80's. The obstacles were just silly. Jumps with sharp peaks and none of the long rounded landings we see on every double or triple. If you watch one the amazing thing about them is how little they appear to have any flow. the riders hammered through them the best they could and it was often who made the least mistakes that cost them momentum.

Now the tracks feature doubles and triples with long landings and everybody but the Asterick cart jumps them. The main challenge for the track builders is to keep the bikes from reaching the warp speeds they can get to so easily. No, I don't think it is a track design problem.

The reason for the "dark year" is that the riders are no longer limited by the technology. The bikes are too fast.

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7/3/2012 5:42 AM

I think this is the first year everyone in the top 5 has been hurt at one time or another.

For the first time ever Dungey sat out part of the season. RV and Reed's season ended early. Stewart battled injuries and still is and Canard is recovering from almost losing his career.

The pace and technology of the bikes is at such a high level it is almost unobtainable to stay at. I pray that this isn't a trend we will continue to see after this elite batch of 250 talent jumps to the big bike class.

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Keep the 2-stroke alive.

KX 125 #938

7/3/2012 5:48 AM

GuyB wrote:

So here's the question. Is there something specific to this year? Or were we just lucky that this hasn't happened previously?

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

jndmx wrote:

Yep.....can only raise the bar so many times before carnage ensues.

Xgames step up is proof of that!

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7/3/2012 6:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/3/2012 6:04 AM

i am going to be different and say that its because these bikes are easier to ride and easier to go fast on alot of guys are riding beyond their skill level and when it goes wrong at high speed they don't know how to sort it out

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7/3/2012 6:06 AM

kongols wrote:

I think the competition has gotten so stiff that you have to take greater risks to succeed.

GuyB wrote:

Correct.

thatdad wrote:

So Carmichel and Stewart in their prime weren't going as fast or faster than the top guys now? Stewart was out of commission ...more

Competition is not about how fast these guys are but the amount of top guys going the same speed.
This year there's a lot more guys going the same speed which leaves no room for error cause there's 4 guys right behind you instead of just one.

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