2001 CR250 $pecial Restoration Part II - Recreation of a 1999-2000 Japan Honda Factory RC250M

CrGuy2T
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CrGuy2T 12/12/2017 8:11am
12/12/2017 8:11am
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
These are not HRC hubs, which I am still searching for, but are special parts just the same. They were reportedly made for some of the...
These are not HRC hubs, which I am still searching for, but are special parts just the same. They were reportedly made for some of the MXGP teams and are similar to the HRC design with the fat front hub.



Some more titanium and HRC replica parts..




I will probably not be successful as it requires a lot of cutting, TIG welding and grinding, I hear, but nevertheless I bought a nice complete 2005 CR250 rear brake set up to try and replicate the prototype set up the Japan team was running. I have been informed the parts really don't fit the 2001 swingarm slot or frame mounts Sad



Are those ergal hubs? They look very similar and are just as badass.
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/12/2017 8:44am
12/12/2017 8:44am
Yes, they are T6 Ergal hubs. They certainly look the part for the build.
Honda Man 66 12/12/2017 8:55am
12/12/2017 8:55am
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
Got to working on the Carbon fiber silencer and used a 1-1/8" swage and heat from a MAP torch to stretch the pipe a little. Took...
Got to working on the Carbon fiber silencer and used a 1-1/8" swage and heat from a MAP torch to stretch the pipe a little. Took me 5 rounds of heating and tapping the swage in with a hammer until I got it done, Now the fit on the OEM pipe is perfect. I hope to add another support bracket at the the rear of the silencer and also need to cycle the swingarm up and down when I remove the rear shock to make sure the tire clears the silencer. Looks tight at the front of the silencer.


Marco from Scalvini has been kindly following up with me to to make sure I found a way to make the silencer fit the pipe. Here are the pics of the finished product mounted up. I removed the Scalvini stickers to make it look more factory (Sorry Marco!). This is the best I can do unless I can find an actual HRC kevlar silencer and pipe. I have seen the Japan Honda factory team actually use a stripped down 2001 OEM pipe at a national race before, so less of a big deal there. Hope it still looks the part?





Next step is to do the mods to the side panels that the factory team did back in those days, and then do the wheels and suspension.

Great looking bike!
Do you have any pics of the side panel modifications?

The Shop

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Tokyo_Tiddler 12/14/2017 8:41pm
12/14/2017 8:41pm
This pics show the side panel modification on the Japan factory bikes. The rivets hold a screen on the inside covering the side vents, and they also cut a hole at the back of the side panel and epoxied another piece of screen on the inside. They used what looked exactly like the aluminum mesh screen you would find in your windows at home. Not sure sure what the purpose of the screen in the forward vents was for as I never asked them, but the only thing I can think of is to preven any small rocks from getting flung into the airbox and somehow getting sucked into the engine if the airfilter wasnt seated just right. The holes at the back of the panel reportedly affected airflow and increased horsepower, and were incorporated into the design of the 2002 side plates. It looked a little cobby but this mod was typical of all the Japan factory bikes. Sometimes the US and European RC's had the same mods, but more often than not they just cut the hole at the back of the panel and didnt cover with the screen.






1
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/14/2017 9:07pm
12/14/2017 9:07pm
The 5 rivets on each side panel were fairly precisely placed as they were always in the same juxtaposition regardless of the bike. The shape of the holes at the back of the panel were different for each side. I havent cut the holes at the back yet, but already made templates that resemble the shape seen in these pics. You can see how screen is held on the inside by the rivets. I used polished aluminum rivets. I also used silicone glue to seal the edges, but I think the Honda team used epoxy. Along with some amazing parts on these bikes these home garage inspired mods I think were done by the mechanics looking to tweak the bikes a little more.. the home made ribs on the seats, the Kevlar muffler made from what looks like a stock OEM silencer and this side panel mod kind of made you look twice and gave the feeling that they were always tweaking and trying to improve the bike even if they weren't the highest tech changes on the bike.










1
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/15/2017 8:39am
12/15/2017 8:39am
I used a GE "silicone glue" to seal the edges. Although I think the factory team used epoxy, this will do fine for now since it makes it easier to peel up if I wanted to redo it for some reason.

I am looking for a place that will make me replica's of the round yellow stickers on the radiator shrouds. It was a figure of a guy holding a lacross stick and gloves and it said "Enjoy It" on the sticker. I have no idea what it meant, but the Japan factory team ran this sticker for a few years on thier bikes. The best I can determine in my research was that it referred to a lacross training camp. Maybe they were a sponsor? Any ideas on what it meant or where I can get replica stickers made?





Tokyo_Tiddler 12/15/2017 8:48am
12/15/2017 8:48am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2017 9:02am
Here is a close up of the sticker.. have you seen this sticker anywhere before?

My memory is vague, but I thought it mentioned a few other sports in the smaller print on the sticker such as tennis.

Tokyo_Tiddler 12/16/2017 12:57am
12/16/2017 12:57am
Got the front wheel built and trued. When they tell you to use the valve stem hole as a starting reference and start tightening every 3rd spoke, use a piece of tape instead so you dont mistake the rim lock hole for the valve stem hole. The wheel uses an NOS 20" rim and new OEM spokes. I always liked the way the bike rode and cornered with the 20" front wheel and is representative of what the Japan team was using on their RC250's



1
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/21/2017 9:01am
12/21/2017 9:01am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2017 9:17am
Unlike the OEM parts, the HRC brake rotor and titanium bolts have a bevel to center the disc. The disc is 260mm and requires an adapter to move the brake caliper out. I havent attached the caliper yet as I am waiting on a titanium HRC front brake caliper slide pin to arrive.


I have the front wheel all assembled with a test fit on the bike. The bike will become a display piece and the the front wheel does look like a work of art with the Ergal hub from a former top MXGP team, the HRC rotor and NOS 20" rim. when the suspension gets shipped to Japan for the Kashima, I will have the fork lowers copper nitrated like the race team had and wil have the fork lugs hard anodized black. The factory team used the OEM plastic right wheel spacer, but I thought a billet one would look nicer




Here I am mocking up the "Enjoy It!" decal that the Japan factory team used for a few years. I cropped an enlarged and grainy picture of the decal and pasted into a paint program. I then redrew the graphic image on top of the picture to create a JPEG file which I am sending to a local graphic print shop to make a few dozen copies of the 2" decal.


mike
slowgti
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slowgti 12/21/2017 10:30am
12/21/2017 10:30am
That's an amazing amount of detail. I dig it
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/21/2017 11:37am
12/21/2017 11:37am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2017 1:52pm
slowgti wrote:
That's an amazing amount of detail. I dig it
There are 3 of us building 2000-2001 RC250 replica bikes.. most of you have seen Bryan's Ricky Carmichael MXdN replica in Belgium and then there is Corne from the Netherlands who has a build that is closest to the real deal with a Japan RC250 build from mostly original HRC and works Showa parts. That is a truely amazing build.
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/21/2017 12:35pm
12/21/2017 12:35pm Edited Date/Time 12/21/2017 12:41pm
The graphics need to be peeled off the swingarm and I have the original swingarm decals that the Honda Japan factory team used for it. Carbon fiber silencer just peaks past the side panel. Nice piece in it's own right until I find the proper HRC silencer for it.


I have been despearately searching for more HRC parts for the RC250 build.. need at least 2 more major pieces to be satisfied. I have run into more HRC parts (shift lever and billet brake pedal) for my CRF450 even though I wasnt looking for them.

On the left size, are the new HRC titanium footpegs & mounts and new HRC shift lever.. On the right side, it also looks the part with the HRC titanium footpegs, the HRC billet CNC brake lever with titanium tip, HRC brake clevis and engine plug. The CRF450 build reduced the weight down to 219 pounds to it was hard to put on that very heavy steel HRC shift lever. It probably added a pound Smile . For the 2017-2018 models, HRC finally made a titanium shift lever;



I am hoping Santa will bring me some HRC more parts for the RC250 build Smile
RussB
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RussB 12/21/2017 11:49pm
12/21/2017 11:49pm
Loving this thread, keep it coming!
Blown away by how nice that front end is. Those titanium rotor bolts are very trick!

hubbardmx50
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hubbardmx50 12/23/2017 4:15pm
12/23/2017 4:15pm
Boner Jams: HRC edition....
Love the pics! Is anyone gonna do the aluminum tank? So trick! Reminds me of my 450 with the TI tank but a two smoker.
Tokyo_Tiddler 12/26/2017 12:57pm
12/26/2017 12:57pm
A few more HRC pieces came in today.. some NOS HRC titanium bolts.. motor mount bolt, subframe bolt, lower shock bolt, front brake caliper pin. Only have the one HRC mount bolt here, so will probably have a replica made for the other one. I had some Mettec titanium for some of these, but just cant resist the actual HRC pieces.


Tokyo_Tiddler 12/26/2017 1:07pm
12/26/2017 1:07pm
hubbardmx50 wrote:
Boner Jams: HRC edition.... Love the pics! Is anyone gonna do the aluminum tank? So trick! Reminds me of my 450 with the TI tank but...
Boner Jams: HRC edition....
Love the pics! Is anyone gonna do the aluminum tank? So trick! Reminds me of my 450 with the TI tank but a two smoker.
I found the HRC aluminum tank and settled on the price with the guy, but then the guy started to stall me on the deal so it was never completed. I gave up after many emails.

Anyway, the fabricated aluminum tank wasn't used quite as much by the Japan team as a special translucent white plastic tank that HRC made for these bikes. The factory had lost a couple of race when their rider ran out of gas on the closing lap while leading (Tortelli is one example). It also had slightly bigger capacity, but HRC claimed that they wanted to the translucent tank to confirm the fuel level before sending the rider out of the paddock. Japan HRC ran both but I saw the white plastic tanks more often.

Pit Row

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Tokyo_Tiddler 12/27/2017 11:33pm
12/27/2017 11:33pm Edited Date/Time 12/27/2017 11:43pm
Here is a mock up of the rear hub, but turns out I installed the wrong combination of bearings.. I installed two 12mm thick bearings on the sprocket side which pushes the wheel spacer ~4mm out too far.. they have to come back out as it seems the set up needs one 8mm bearing and one 12mm bearing. I got these hubs w/o bearings or any details on how the team set them up so I have to figure out each step as I go.

It is one gargantuan sized hub. While still lighter than OEM, this is what the engineers thought they needed in a billet aluminum hub front and rear in those days. The HRC rear hub is magnesium and not so large as this, but HRC used billet aluminum on the front hub and is sizable like this thing. It makes you do a double take.


Also.. I mocked up a 2005 CR250 rear brake set up, but neither the rear caliper bracket or the master cylinder will work without significant amount of cutting, fabbing, and TIG welding. I wanted to make it look like the prototype new brake set up HRC was using at that time, but not so sure if it is worth it. The newer rear caliper uses a different bracket that is positioned on the swingarm slider in a lower position. Unlike the prototype master cylinder which had a longer bottom mount on the cylinder, itself, the OEM unit has even length mounts which puts the master cylinder at the wrong angle with the bottom far too close to the brake pedal. I cant even use the plastic guards off the newer caliper.. all differently spaced mounts.
Tokyo_Tiddler 1/4/2018 12:35am
1/4/2018 12:35am
I had the "Enjoy IT" stickers replicated and they came out well. I think it advertizes a fitness/ training camp and the image is of a guy wearing Lacrosse equipment. Not sure if it was a sponsor of the Japan factory team or the team riders were training at this camp, but they were on all Japan RC factory bikes from late 1999 to early 2001 per the pictures above.

Also picked up the correct 7P-122B HRC shift lever for the build.

Here are the new additions to the build on the bike;



Here is one of the inspirations for the build. It is the RC250 that debuted in 1999 ridden by a rider called Odagiri.



1
Tokyo_Tiddler 1/6/2018 10:11pm
1/6/2018 10:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/6/2018 10:19pm




During the 1998-2001period, the Japan Honda factory team would run various different decals in front of the Renthal decal on the swingarm. One of the stickers they would often run is a "MotoRoman" sticker. MotoRoman is a Honda motorcross only dealership/ Race shop just a few minutes from the now defunct Honda track in Okegawa, Saitama prefecture which is about an hour drive north of Tokyo. Not sure if it is still the case, but in those days, the dealership employees were considered employees of the motorcycle manufacturer. Motoroman also housed the race shop for the Seki Racing-MotoRoman Race team which was essentially a satellite team for Honda. They had full support of HRC for engines and parts, works suspension was from Kayaba unless the rider wanted Showa, and the tires from Bridgestone, Top riders like Narita and Katsuya, both Japan champions, rode for this team while in the peak of their careers. Narita chose to step away from the regular Honda factory team in 2000 at time when it was becoming popular for riders to move away from the pressure of the factories and ride factory level machines, but in a race program where the riders' salaries were paid by outside sponsors. This CR250 came from MotoRoman and I had plenty of original stickers for this build.




mxBryan
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mxBryan 1/12/2018 9:33am
1/12/2018 9:33am
Spent a couple of hours reading both your threads ! Shame i never seen them before...
I usually never look in the Moto-Related section, if you want the thread moved to the bike builds section you can ask a admin.

You're doing a great job, can watch the pictures for hours ! Nice scores on all of the NOS parts and factory HRC parts.

Thanks for sharing the information of the modifications on the side numberplates. The bike i'm building also had the holes at the back of the number plates, was going to do this job upcoming weekend.
I always wondered what the small black dots are on the numberplates of this bike, the pictures of this bike are not very detailed so hard to tell. I was always doubting whether it were just holes or rivets, well now it seems cleared up ! Looks like this bike only had 3 rivets on both sides, don't think the other possible rivets are underneath the decal ???



Bryan
Tokyo_Tiddler 1/12/2018 12:10pm
1/12/2018 12:10pm
Hi Bryan,

The US team did their side plate vents a little differently than the Japanese team. I made templates to cut the rear holes but didnt cut it yet. The rear hole on the right plate is not the same shape as the hole on the left plate as you can see in the bike wash pics. I saw them up close and the Japan team used a very fine screen like a window screen to cover the vent openings front and back, but it appears the US team used nothing. I assume the screen was there to prevent small rocks from entering the air box. Honda found that by creating these holes at back, it changed the airflow and they picked up a tiny bit of upper rpm horsepower. These vent holes were added to the side plates of production CR's from 2002 and all Honda MXers thereafter.

mike
Tokyo_Tiddler 1/25/2018 6:44pm
1/25/2018 6:44pm Edited Date/Time 1/25/2018 6:53pm
A few hang ups.. steering stem too short so triple clamp had to be sent back to bore the shaft hole a little deeper. Also waiting on suspension to come back from Japan. USPS lost some parts I got from Italy.

I bought some tire pens, but these tire stickers are the way to go.. very nice and once applied they dont look like stickers.. the letters look painted on.

Front wheel is finished and ready to be mounted. Lots of rare parts on this wheel from the survivor hub from a GP team to the HRC disc and the 20" tire which are no longer available and almost impossible to find anywhere. I was always a fan of the 20" tire which the Japan Honda team used with an 18" rear wheel.



Tokyo_Tiddler 1/25/2018 6:58pm
1/25/2018 6:58pm

Still trying to figure out what I will do with the rear wheel.. the factory team used a 2.75 x 18" rear rim. I am not usre if I will use a 2.15 X 18" OEM rim from a CRF-X or XR650R or Excel/ Takasago rim. Also need to figure out what spokes to use or what length/ bend.
Tokyo_Tiddler 1/26/2018 12:43pm
1/26/2018 12:43pm
A few more HRC parts came today.. a case guard and rear axle nut which unfortunataly us too big for the OEM axle. HRC must have been running a bigger diameter rear axle.


I am searching for these HRC footpegs. They only fit 2000-2001 so harder to find.


Tokyo_Tiddler 2/3/2018 9:17am
2/3/2018 9:17am Edited Date/Time 2/3/2018 9:19am
Some incremental progress.. redid the bluing on the pipe.. still on the fattish side, but looks better.


Had the steering stem height on the new lower triple clamp fixed so its perfect now..installed on bike and just awaiting the HRC clamp bolts, HRC replica top bar clamp, and the forks to come back from the Kashima coating. I also started to install the HRC brake line banjo bolts.. HRC used a very shallow head on these aluminum bolts



Tokyo_Tiddler 2/3/2018 12:23pm
2/3/2018 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2018 4:12pm
They are NOS OEM shrouds and graphics with HRC and Enjoy it stickers just stuck on there. The actual factory graphics say "Racing" under "Honda" instead of "250R".
nascarnate326 2/3/2018 3:50pm
2/3/2018 3:50pm
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
They are NOS OEM shrouds and graphics with HRC and Enjoy it stickers just stuck on there. The actual factory graphics say "Racing" under "Honda" instead...
They are NOS OEM shrouds and graphics with HRC and Enjoy it stickers just stuck on there. The actual factory graphics say "Racing" under "Honda" instead of "250R".
Im considering an 01 CR250 and love those graphics, havnt been able to find copies anywhere.

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