2001 CR250 $pecial Restoration Part II - Japan RC250M Factory Replica or Tribute bike

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10/29/2017 12:13 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/17/2017 8:04 PM

Winter is coming and time to find another garage project to get me through. The restoration I did a year ago came out nice, but I have been itching to take it up a notch and there were suggestions I make it look even more factory last time by adding a few things.

Here is the previous build tread and this thread will focus on gathering HRC parts as well as replica parts to build a bike similar to what was raced in Japan and the Europen GPs when the 2nd gen aluminum frame first came out. Both geographies where running the green number plates back then.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/2001-CR250-pecial-restoration,1312711?page=1

Perhaps it will be more of a tribute buike than a replica since I am not copying any particular riders bike. I am using my own number, but making it look like a Honday factory bike of that era with the exception of a few parts that I think look better than what HRC was running (like the chopped up countershaft sprocket guard).

Here is a taste of whats to come..



I have started searching for and collecting more HRC parts as well as relica parts. The real deal is preferred but not so easy to get hold of so replica parts or look alike parts will have to do for now until I find the actual HRC parts.

Here is an NOS HRC shift lever next to a replica part. The HRC shift lever is too short for the 2T so it will go on my CRF450 along with an HRC billet rear brake pedal.



Here are some replica HRC hardware from Phil Denton and other sources.. HRC itanium engine cover bolts, subframe bolts, seat bolts, fork guard screws, front number plate screws, fork guard and brake rotor cover screws, beveled titanium front brake rotor screws for the HRC brake rotor, banjo bolts, brake clevis with Ti pin,etc.



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10/29/2017 12:30 AM

I am still looking for an HRC clutch perch assembly, so this WC piece in all black with a red adjuster like the HRC part will have to do for now. It has the WC titanium bolt option. This bike also has a lot of Mettec titanium which actually is much better looking and higher quality than the HRC titanium.



Until I find an HRC pipe, I will use the stock 2001 pipe all stripped down with the heat tretament on the seams/ welds. The HRC and the OEM pipes are almost identical except the HRC uses thinner walled steel and has less reimforcement around the header pipe. It took me a while to get the pipe this far trying 5 different paint strippers, none of which would bubble the paint, just soften it a little. Honda makes some tough exhaust paint! i still need to get the nooks and crannies better, and give it the final metal finish plus the heat treatment on the seams.



Here is a Bud racing Kevlar silencer until I find an HRC silencer which is high priority. The Bud unit is too short for outdoor and doesnt quite achieve the look.



Like the factory bikes of the time, I will add a fine mesh screen behind the vents held on with 5 polished aluminum pop rivets soon. Here is the plate with the FIM MXGP/ FMJ All Japan Motocross green backgrounds. Japan changed to red backgrounds around 2001.



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10/29/2017 12:46 AM

These are not HRC hubs, which I am still searching for, but are special parts just the same. They were reportedly made for some of the MXGP teams and are similar to the HRC design with the fat front hub.



Some more titanium and HRC replica parts..




I will probably not be successful as it requires a lot of cutting, TIG welding and grinding, I hear, but nevertheless I bought a nice complete 2005 CR250 rear brake set up to try and replicate the prototype set up the Japan team was running. I have been informed the parts really don't fit the 2001 swingarm slot or frame mounts



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10/29/2017 12:59 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/29/2017 4:54 AM

More Ti and HRC replica parts..


As we speak, I am having a custom 22 degree offset HRC replica lower triple clamp made as we speak to match my upper clamp. Should have it soon.

Other things on my to do list is to send the fork tubes and rear shock to Japan for Kashima coating, gold nitrate treatment on the sliders and black anodized fork lugs. I am also learning to anodize parts in my garage and will create a set of green anodized rear wheel spacers like the HRC team used until I find the real HRC parts.

Please let me know if you have any tips or suggestions for this build. I am also looking for leads on the following HRC parts. The must find items are the Kevlar silencer, shift lever, front disc cover, front hub, and clutch perch assembly;
1. HRC steel shift lever [7P-122 or E7HL-122B]
2. HRC titanium footpegs
3. HRC titanium footpeg mounts
4. HRC front brake disk cover
5. HRC rear wheel axle spacers (green anodized)
6. HRC kevlar silencer/ muffler [E7HM]
7. HRC exhaust pipe
8. HRC killswitch [35130-NC8-000]
9. HRC clutch perch assembly
10. HRC blue banjo bolts
11. HRC front billet aluminum hub
12. HRC rear magnesium wheel hub
13. Plasti Werks front number plate

More to come..

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10/29/2017 1:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/29/2017 1:19 AM

A few more shots of the build in progress. Initially the bike was totally rebuilt with a lot of NOS parts which are now getting replaced by HRC or HRC replica parts..





Here are a few inspirational pics for the build..





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10/29/2017 1:41 AM

My friend owns an RC500. The pipe on it is Inconel.

Much $$$$$$...

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10/29/2017 4:28 AM

I have mounted a 2002+ caliper and Carrier on my 2001 build, have some pics in the build section

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10/29/2017 6:56 AM

I've recently picked up a 2001 myself and it's amazing how great it is. I think it's even better than the 2017 yz 250 I had

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10/29/2017 7:11 AM

Kawasaki-rider wrote:

I have mounted a 2002+ caliper and Carrier on my 2001 build, have some pics in the build section

Hi Kawasaki-rider... it has been some months since I checked out your thread.. sorry to see all the injuries you had. I went through a bit of that myself, but hard to stay away from the sport, Nice job on mounting the 2002+ rear brake caliper by relocating the swingarm slider bracket, but did you ever get the 2002+ master cylinder to work with the 2001 brake pedal?

Also, I was waiting to see what you did with the later model 2002+ footpegs and mounts. The later model peg mounts don't swap over to a 2001 as different bolt size and spacing. Did you get anything figured out on that?

thanks!
mike

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10/29/2017 7:35 AM

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

Hi Kawasaki-rider... it has been some months since I checked out your thread.. sorry to see all the injuries you had. I went through a bit of that myself, but hard to stay away from the sport, Nice job on mounting the 2002+ rear brake caliper by relocating the swingarm slider bracket, but did you ever get the 2002+ master cylinder to work with the 2001 brake pedal?

Also, I was waiting to see what you did with the later model 2002+ footpegs and mounts. The later model peg mounts don't swap over to a 2001 as different bolt size and spacing. Did you get anything figured out on that?

thanks!
mike

Thanks for the kind words!

Master cylinder I have not started working on yet, but I may have some ideas..

Same with the peg-mounts. Have not looked so much at it, I may weld my own cro-mo brackets when I get there..

Keep up the good work!

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11/17/2017 4:47 PM

Parts are starting to come in and got a few more things done. Custom lower triple clamp should be finished soon.

Finall got the pipe all stripped. Took me 3 weeks off and on to get all the paint out of every nook and cranny. That Honda exhaust paint is like iron.


Here it is after bluing with a MAP torch. Looks pretty good. The 2001 pipe is different from the 2000 pipe and was modelled after the HRC pipe so close enough until I find a real one.



The carbon fiber silencers also arrived until I find an HRC piece. Both the Scalvini and Bud sincncer are very well made and provide great service/ quick delivery. The Bud silencer is heavy and well built but rather small for a 250 though would be perfect for a 125. The Scalvini is light for its size and much bigger with an oval shape like stock. Which one should I use? I do have a major problem, though. Neither one will fit the stock pipe. The Bud silencer is to big an OD to fit into the stock pipe but it does fit my FMF pipes. The Scalvini is too small an inside diameter (28.1mm) compared to the OD of the stock pipe (28.5mm) and will not fit either the stock or FMF pipes.

I am leaning towards the Scalvini silencer but have no clue yet how to make it fit. Any ideas? Maybe if I heat it glowing red hot and stretch it over the pipe?



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11/17/2017 5:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/17/2017 5:09 PM




Also put on a bunch more titanium and the HRC imposter clucth perch (until I find a real one Funny how they always had a black clutch lever on the left and a silver brake lever on the right.



Need to get the suspension off soon and send to Japan for Kashima coating and blue/purple nitrate coating on the sliders.

Still searching hard for more HRCs parts! Not easy.

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11/17/2017 5:06 PM

I would try a tubing or hydraulic shop and see if they have a swaging machine. 0.4mm should be no problem to expand out.

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11/17/2017 7:10 PM

very impressive build. the pipe looks awesome!!

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11/17/2017 7:47 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/17/2017 7:49 PM

Winter

BTW, pipe looks great. May have to do that to mine.
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11/18/2017 5:43 AM

Those are some FAT hubs.

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11/18/2017 8:27 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/28/2017 7:09 AM

m.hardesty16 wrote:

Those are some FAT hubs.

That was the design of the HRC billet hubs from 1997 to 2001.. more so the front than the rear. I havent been able to find the HRC hubs.. are least someone willing to sell, so I picked up these ones designed for a Honda GP team in the late 90's. The actual HRC front hub measures 77mm in diameter and this front hub measures 70mm in diameter. The fat front hub was one of the first things you noticed on the HRC bikes of the era. The rear HRC hub was not as fat, but it was magnesium rather than billet aluminum. I guess this was the era when honda was just working out how strong a billet aluminum hub needed to be for pro competition. Nevertheless, the more compact design HRC introduced in 2002 is the same one we still have today on HRC and aftermarket hubs with a narrow spindle not so much fatter than the cast OEM hubs.

This 2000-2001 RC250 tribute build needed to have a fat front hub to look the part!

mike

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11/18/2017 8:29 AM

Anyone out there have a proper HRC front hub to sell before I put this one on?

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11/20/2017 2:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/28/2018 1:23 PM

The parts are slowly trickling in. Here is the lower triple clamp machined by Emig Racing. I pulled back the steering angle a little to 22 degrees. Anodizing isn't quite the best, but will still look the part over the OEM lower clamp. Clamp bolts will be replaced with titanium.



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11/25/2017 10:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/28/2018 1:22 PM

Wasn't sure if I wanted the hubs too shiny, but couldn't resist seeing what a quick polish would do to these left over hubs from the late 90's GPs. Front hub looks like a piece of jewelry now. The front hub used all the stock bearings and seals which I just installed. That massive rear hub takes a much bigger bearing and seals than the OEM hub. I just ordered the bearing and seals after doing a lot of measuring. Hope I got it right.


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11/26/2017 9:44 PM

When I finished the restoration the first time, guys suggested I make it look more retro and more factory.. namely get rid of the shiney pipe, get an anodized lower triple clamp, get rid of the modern graphics on the side plates and the swing arm. Doing all of this as people suggested and here is the replacement for the shiny FMF platinum pipe I had on there. How does it look?







Front hub used the stock bearings, but still figuring out the rear hub which does not. Stock rear wheel bearings are 25mm id X 43mm od X 9mm thick. These rear hubs need a 47mm od bearing, and the ones I am considering are 25mm X 47mm X 12mm with a 7mm thick seal. Should work fine on the brake side, but on the sproket side the depth of the bore is only 26mm.. not much room for two 12mm thick bearing and a 7mm thick seal as that adds up to 31mm. It look like the seal can fit around the outside of the top bearing since the bore for the seal is 50mm.. this might give me about 2-3mm leaway, but still leaving the seal about 2mm above the bore. Can't figure out if they used a slighly thinner ~10mm bearing as you just dont find 25 X 47 X 10mm bearings out there. 12mm seems to be the standard thickness for a 47mm OD wheel bearing.



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11/27/2017 10:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/27/2017 11:11 PM

Got to working on the Carbon fiber silencer and used a 1-1/8" swage and heat from a MAP torch to stretch the pipe a little. Took me 5 rounds of heating and tapping the swage in with a hammer until I got it done, Now the fit on the OEM pipe is perfect. I hope to add another support bracket at the the rear of the silencer and also need to cycle the swingarm up and down when I remove the rear shock to make sure the tire clears the silencer. Looks tight at the front of the silencer.


Marco from Scalvini has been kindly following up with me to to make sure I found a way to make the silencer fit the pipe. Here are the pics of the finished product mounted up. I removed the Scalvini stickers to make it look more factory (Sorry Marco!). This is the best I can do unless I can find an actual HRC kevlar silencer and pipe. I have seen the Japan Honda factory team actually use a stripped down 2001 OEM pipe at a national race before, so less of a big deal there. Hope it still looks the part?





Next step is to do the mods to the side panels that the factory team did back in those days, and then do the wheels and suspension.

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11/28/2017 2:57 AM

Loving this!
Some lovely pieces on this bike. Even though the hubs aren't HRC, they are gorgeous! I wouldn't be upset with having them fitted to one of my bikes

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@russ_69

11/28/2017 6:11 AM

Pretty cool build. I had 2 of these bikes and loved them both. Maybe someday I'll have #3, but my riding days are slowly dwindling as I age.

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11/28/2017 7:15 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/28/2017 7:35 AM

RussB.. thanks.. I continue to look for more HRC parts, but for the time being, I will use pieces that at least look the part for the Japan Honda factory bikes of those years.

danman.. I am getting on in years, myself and now just build them to admire rather than ride. This one will probably go in my downstarirs living room or bedroom (I have a big bedroom).

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11/28/2017 7:27 AM

Owned & raced an 01 CR2 back when they 1st came out. Nice build !

Your build & JkopMx 02 have inspired me to refresh an 03 CR2 RC replica that needs some much needed TLC.

Thnxz for posting..

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

11/28/2017 7:28 AM

Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:

RussB.. thanks.. I continue to look for more HRC parts, but for the time being, I will use pieces that at least look the part for the Japan Honda factory bikes of those years.

danman.. I am getting on in years, myself and now just build them to admire rather than ride. This one will probably go in my downstarirs living room or bedroom (I have a big bedroom).

You must not be married.. LOL !

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

11/28/2017 11:19 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/28/2017 3:07 PM

Wife is Japanese, H4L.. she sleeps on the floor with the dog She really does sleep on the floor just like we lived in Japan!

One of the typical features of the Japan factory bikes was bright green rear wheel spacers. This was the begnning of the era of billet parts and I guess the wanted them to stand out even if not the typical Honda red. Impossible to buy green spacers for a Honda, so I decided I would make my own. I am going to do 2 different sets of spacers.. an new set of gray OEM spacers and a set of red aftermarket spacers. I used Whinks Rust Stain remover to remove the anodize from the aluminum parts.


It only took about 15-20 minutes to remove the anodize. The cups will heat up and start fizzing and turn the color of the anodize. I had them in for 20 minutes, wiped them off, and then another 15 minutes on the other side. You sont want to soak them any longer than that as it will start to etch the metal too much.


I then wiped them off, rinsed the with water and dried. Here they are all ready to be polished and then anodized green. Polishing is necessary to get a good sheen from the anodize. I bought a home anodize kit and got the sulfuric acid, but still need to set up the soaking tanks.


Here is what they should look like when they are finished..


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11/28/2017 9:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/28/2017 9:01 PM

A quick polish before the spacers go into the anodizing tank.. They are obviously made from 2 very different types of aluminum, so I wouldnt be surprised if one set anodizes much better than the other..


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12/12/2017 12:39 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/12/2017 12:45 AM

I continue to look for more HRC parts for this build and just got this NOS front brake rotor below. I run into more late model HRC parts than the 2000-2001 era parts I need for this build. Just picked up this HRC brake pedal that is off either Bobryshev's or Tim Gajser's bike for my CRF450. It has a titanium tip, is machined from billet aluminum, and has an adjuster screw that the OEM pedal doesn’t have. That is not the right adjuster screw on there. I am having a replica piece made from titanium.

I also just picked up an original NOS 20" Takasago rim and NOS 20" tire for the front wheel build.


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