2 stroke comeback

jgilps617
Profile picture for user jgilps617
Posts
86
Joined
1/17/2008
Location
the jungle, ID US
jgilps617
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 11:40am
why dont companies make 450 2 strokes. theyd be cheaper, lighter and the smell of sweet premix will once again fill the air at racetracks.
|
redrider400
Profile picture for user redrider400
Posts
1536
Joined
1/18/2010
Location
Homer, AK US
redrider400 11/3/2010 5:41pm
11/3/2010 5:41pm
Because no one could ride them, lol. Have you rode a 500 kawi before? They are insanely fast.
adamdf
Profile picture for user adamdf
Posts
2119
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
St. Michael BB
adamdf 11/3/2010 5:42pm
11/3/2010 5:42pm
seriously?

a 450 two stroke? even if they made them, i would still buy the 250 2T over it.

A nice performing MX 300 or 280 etc would be more like it..
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 11/3/2010 5:48pm
11/3/2010 5:48pm
Someone tell Matthes not to click. I'm going for popcorn. BRB, LOL,OMGHuh

The Shop

See All »
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 11/3/2010 5:50pm
11/3/2010 5:50pm
Why? Because the Big 4 would have to make a 900cc 4 stroke to be equal.Smile
wownd out
Profile picture for user wownd out
Posts
525
Joined
10/22/2009
Location
Corona, CA US
wownd out 11/3/2010 6:06pm
11/3/2010 6:06pm
newmann wrote:
Why? Because the Big 4 would have to make a 900cc 4 stroke to be equal.Smile
LOL LOL, damn that is so true!!!
kx100getter
Profile picture for user kx100getter
Posts
488
Joined
7/7/2010
Location
Sandy, UT US
kx100getter 11/3/2010 6:09pm
11/3/2010 6:09pm
Why don't anybody in the 450 class at least ride 250 2strokes? Or even anyone in the 250 class use them????
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 11/3/2010 6:30pm
11/3/2010 6:30pm
Matt Wozney wrote:
How many 2 stroke "comebacks" are we at already?
A bunch. Seriously, you'd think the Big 4 would try to capatilize on this.Wink
mxb2
Profile picture for user mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
mxb2 11/3/2010 6:32pm
11/3/2010 6:32pm
Matt Wozney wrote:
How many 2 stroke "comebacks" are we at already?
Maybe your bro can race his 2 stroke in 2011! LOL!
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 11/3/2010 6:46pm
11/3/2010 6:46pm
newmann wrote:
Why? Because the Big 4 would have to make a 900cc 4 stroke to be equal.Smile
The displacement is not a factor in the large bore class.
250f class? That's a whole different story.
GIwasB4
Profile picture for user GIwasB4
Posts
2585
Joined
7/24/2008
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
GIwasB4 11/3/2010 6:57pm
11/3/2010 6:57pm
A well engineered 500cc 2 stroke priced reasonably would sell like hot cakes.
I didn't say it first, it is true.
TerryB
Profile picture for user TerryB
Posts
2759
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Cambridge, MN US
TerryB 11/3/2010 6:59pm
11/3/2010 6:59pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2010 7:02pm
newmann wrote:
Why? Because the Big 4 would have to make a 900cc 4 stroke to be equal.Smile
jmar wrote:
The displacement is not a factor in the large bore class.
250f class? That's a whole different story.
Gotta agree with that. As displacement goes up 2-stroke advantage diminishes commensurately. I'd love to see 450cc 2 and 4-strokes competing directly.

Small bores: The 2-stroke clearly has the upper hand, and those who don't believe there will be a 2-stroke comeback, are not thinking clearly.
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 11/3/2010 7:04pm
11/3/2010 7:04pm
newmann wrote:
Why? Because the Big 4 would have to make a 900cc 4 stroke to be equal.Smile
jmar wrote:
The displacement is not a factor in the large bore class.
250f class? That's a whole different story.
That was my attempt at sarcasm Jim. But you mention large bore class, and in the US that only includes a 250 2 stroke, so displacement is a factor there.

On to the 250F's, yes the displacement advantage there is huge over the 125. Hard to believe that even got put in place. It seems a lot of people are falling out of love with the 250F.

Bring back my favorites, the 125's!
jmar
Profile picture for user jmar
Posts
14159
Joined
2/11/2007
Location
Oklahoma City, OK US
jmar 11/3/2010 7:05pm
11/3/2010 7:05pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
A well engineered 500cc 2 stroke priced reasonably would sell like hot cakes.
I didn't say it first, it is true.
I have to ask.

Why do some of you seem to think the OEMs could sell the two strokes for less?



Mstock
Profile picture for user Mstock
Posts
2045
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI US
Mstock 11/3/2010 7:06pm
11/3/2010 7:06pm
Two strokes are not for Pro level competition. That shit is all business and for the riders it is a J. O. B.

Two strokes are for those of us who love the sport of motocross, the sound of a crisp two stroke on the pipe, the sweet smell, and those who refuse to take a second mortgage for the kids to start racing.

Please stop asking the AMA or MX Sports to consider them. There are plenty of great new two strokes available. Just f'en buy a new one if you really love them. What are you trying to do?.......get pro's to buy them? They don't buy shit.

Only the consumers in this sport has a say in this matter. If your not willing to purchase a new 2011 two stroke please shut the fuck up already.
mxb2
Profile picture for user mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
mxb2 11/3/2010 7:11pm
11/3/2010 7:11pm
Mstock wrote:
Two strokes are not for Pro level competition. That shit is all business and for the riders it is a J. O. B. Two strokes are...
Two strokes are not for Pro level competition. That shit is all business and for the riders it is a J. O. B.

Two strokes are for those of us who love the sport of motocross, the sound of a crisp two stroke on the pipe, the sweet smell, and those who refuse to take a second mortgage for the kids to start racing.

Please stop asking the AMA or MX Sports to consider them. There are plenty of great new two strokes available. Just f'en buy a new one if you really love them. What are you trying to do?.......get pro's to buy them? They don't buy shit.

Only the consumers in this sport has a say in this matter. If your not willing to purchase a new 2011 two stroke please shut the fuck up already.
X2, and i m a fan of 2 stroke and 4 stroke! Put your money where your mouth is. Both are great bikes! Buy what you want. and dont criticize anybody on how to spend their own money.
Mstock
Profile picture for user Mstock
Posts
2045
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI US
Mstock 11/3/2010 7:13pm
11/3/2010 7:13pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
A well engineered 500cc 2 stroke priced reasonably would sell like hot cakes.
I didn't say it first, it is true.
jmar wrote:
I have to ask.

Why do some of you seem to think the OEMs could sell the two strokes for less?



Bingo. That is were the two stroke crowd is mind fucked. They think a 250 two stroke should sell for under 5K. Ain't going to happen. It cost 97% as much to produce two strokes vs four bangers once tooled up. It's the "after purchase" savings that add up..........$100 top end rebuilds and zero labor cost vs. $1200 for the thumpers.

Pit Row

See All »
Matt Wozney
Profile picture for user Matt Wozney
Posts
2805
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Clayton, DE US
Matt Wozney 11/3/2010 7:14pm
11/3/2010 7:14pm
Matt Wozney wrote:
How many 2 stroke "comebacks" are we at already?
mxb2 wrote:
Maybe your bro can race his 2 stroke in 2011! LOL!
Not likely.....well.....if his 4 stroke craps out....and his 2 stroke is ready to roll.......
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 11/3/2010 7:15pm
11/3/2010 7:15pm
Mstock wrote:
Two strokes are not for Pro level competition. That shit is all business and for the riders it is a J. O. B. Two strokes are...
Two strokes are not for Pro level competition. That shit is all business and for the riders it is a J. O. B.

Two strokes are for those of us who love the sport of motocross, the sound of a crisp two stroke on the pipe, the sweet smell, and those who refuse to take a second mortgage for the kids to start racing.

Please stop asking the AMA or MX Sports to consider them. There are plenty of great new two strokes available. Just f'en buy a new one if you really love them. What are you trying to do?.......get pro's to buy them? They don't buy shit.

Only the consumers in this sport has a say in this matter. If your not willing to purchase a new 2011 two stroke please shut the fuck up already.
How many are currently willing to purchase a new 2011 4 stroke? Especially with so many dust collector leftover bargains clogging the dealers. Yes, us consumers are currently having a say. If the Big 4 came out with updated 2 strokes, I'll bet a lot of 4 stroke lovers would shit themselves over how many would be purchased. It would not be good for the 4 stroke agenda.

mxb2
Profile picture for user mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
mxb2 11/3/2010 7:16pm
11/3/2010 7:16pm
Matt Wozney wrote:
How many 2 stroke "comebacks" are we at already?
mxb2 wrote:
Maybe your bro can race his 2 stroke in 2011! LOL!
Matt Wozney wrote:
Not likely.....well.....if his 4 stroke craps out....and his 2 stroke is ready to roll.......
Whats he ridin in 2011?
GIwasB4
Profile picture for user GIwasB4
Posts
2585
Joined
7/24/2008
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
GIwasB4 11/3/2010 7:17pm
11/3/2010 7:17pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
A well engineered 500cc 2 stroke priced reasonably would sell like hot cakes.
I didn't say it first, it is true.
jmar wrote:
I have to ask.

Why do some of you seem to think the OEMs could sell the two strokes for less?



It's cheaper to produce the 2 stroke motor, argue it. Yamaha is making a killing on profit per machine comparing the YZ125 to the YZ250F. Again, tell me they are not?
TerryB
Profile picture for user TerryB
Posts
2759
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Cambridge, MN US
TerryB 11/3/2010 7:18pm
11/3/2010 7:18pm
newmann wrote:
How many are currently willing to purchase a new 2011 4 stroke? Especially with so many dust collector leftover bargains clogging the dealers. Yes, us consumers...
How many are currently willing to purchase a new 2011 4 stroke? Especially with so many dust collector leftover bargains clogging the dealers. Yes, us consumers are currently having a say. If the Big 4 came out with updated 2 strokes, I'll bet a lot of 4 stroke lovers would shit themselves over how many would be purchased. It would not be good for the 4 stroke agenda.

Can I get a "Hell yes"!
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
newmann 11/3/2010 7:21pm
11/3/2010 7:21pm
Anybody know what KTM's sales ratio's are lately 2 stroke/4 stroke?
GIwasB4
Profile picture for user GIwasB4
Posts
2585
Joined
7/24/2008
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
GIwasB4 11/3/2010 7:28pm
11/3/2010 7:28pm
Yamaha & KTM are still tooled up and able to mass produce them. They are'nt mass producing them because they are selling what they do produce (at a huge profit) and the demand is not there for them to load up the inventory. (They are able to keep the price high) The demand is not there because there are no classes at the local and professional level structured to run them any longer.
Mstock
Profile picture for user Mstock
Posts
2045
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI US
Mstock 11/3/2010 7:32pm
11/3/2010 7:32pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
A well engineered 500cc 2 stroke priced reasonably would sell like hot cakes.
I didn't say it first, it is true.
jmar wrote:
I have to ask.

Why do some of you seem to think the OEMs could sell the two strokes for less?



GIwasB4 wrote:
It's cheaper to produce the 2 stroke motor, argue it. Yamaha is making a killing on profit per machine comparing the YZ125 to the YZ250F. Again...
It's cheaper to produce the 2 stroke motor, argue it. Yamaha is making a killing on profit per machine comparing the YZ125 to the YZ250F. Again, tell me they are not?
The initial tooling process for a four stroke cost more but once set up they cost nearly the same. Both are already paid for. Only difference is people actually buy NEW four strokes not NEW two strokes. If the Japanese read these boards they must be at a loss for strategy..........We want two strokes is all they read and yet..........nobody buys them.

Once again. Get to your local dealer and throw down the money on a new 2011 two stroke or give it up already.

sdfog1
Profile picture for user sdfog1
Posts
966
Joined
5/24/2009
Location
Flower Mound, TX US
sdfog1 11/3/2010 7:35pm
11/3/2010 7:35pm
newmann wrote:
Anybody know what KTM's sales ratio's are lately 2 stroke/4 stroke?
I haven't seen anything official, but I hear "40 percent 2 stroke and 60 percent 4 stroke" thrown around as a stat quite often. No idea if that's true or not.
Mstock
Profile picture for user Mstock
Posts
2045
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
Middleton, WI US
Mstock 11/3/2010 7:36pm
11/3/2010 7:36pm
GIwasB4 wrote:
Yamaha & KTM are still tooled up and able to mass produce them. They are'nt mass producing them because they are selling what they do produce...
Yamaha & KTM are still tooled up and able to mass produce them. They are'nt mass producing them because they are selling what they do produce (at a huge profit) and the demand is not there for them to load up the inventory. (They are able to keep the price high) The demand is not there because there are no classes at the local and professional level structured to run them any longer.
There are classes at every ama sanctioned local motocross event for two strokes. Most age groups can race 2-3 classes on a two stroke.

We did this to ourselves. We stopped buying two strokes. It's our fault. Stop your bitching and go buy yourself a 2011 two stroke.
GIwasB4
Profile picture for user GIwasB4
Posts
2585
Joined
7/24/2008
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
GIwasB4 11/3/2010 7:40pm
11/3/2010 7:40pm
jmar wrote:
I have to ask.

Why do some of you seem to think the OEMs could sell the two strokes for less?



GIwasB4 wrote:
It's cheaper to produce the 2 stroke motor, argue it. Yamaha is making a killing on profit per machine comparing the YZ125 to the YZ250F. Again...
It's cheaper to produce the 2 stroke motor, argue it. Yamaha is making a killing on profit per machine comparing the YZ125 to the YZ250F. Again, tell me they are not?
Mstock wrote:
The initial tooling process for a four stroke cost more but once set up they cost nearly the same. Both are already paid for. Only difference...
The initial tooling process for a four stroke cost more but once set up they cost nearly the same. Both are already paid for. Only difference is people actually buy NEW four strokes not NEW two strokes. If the Japanese read these boards they must be at a loss for strategy..........We want two strokes is all they read and yet..........nobody buys them.

Once again. Get to your local dealer and throw down the money on a new 2011 two stroke or give it up already.

Your correct, abeit they are already setup, Honda-Kawasaki-Suzuki are no longer "tooled up".
You are correct again, they are available and nobody buys them in mass.
They sell what they make, and only make what they sell. Hords of 2 stroke lovers are not flooding Yamaha & KTM with orders. There are no racing classes to compete with them in and they are "comparitively priced" to the 4 stroke alternative for which there is a class.
mxb2
Profile picture for user mxb2
Posts
22488
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD US
mxb2 11/3/2010 7:40pm
11/3/2010 7:40pm Edited Date/Time 11/3/2010 7:42pm
The factories will build whatever sells! I agree w Mstock, go to your dealer and buy a new bike! All we see is pictures of older 2 strokes fixed up! And i love both bikes! Maybe the 2 stroke lovers can show some pics of their 2010 / 2011 2 stroke? That being said i will be riding my 09 rmz 450 this weekend, and its a great bike, and i ve owned yz s and rm 2 strokes!

Post a reply to: 2 stroke comeback