'16 Kawi chassis

shanexsan
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shanexsan
Edited Date/Time 1/4/2016 12:38pm
tomac seems to mention the new Kawi's chassis over and over in recent videos and interviews. Some people say he's paid to say that etc etc but he sure does seem to harp on it a lot and I would think if Kawi was paying him to say exactly what they wanted then they would have him selling the power of the bike just as much as the chassis. This leads me to think he's genuinely happy with it and that he probably wasn't very happy with the Honda chassis. Thoughts? Anybody own a '16 kx450 who can provide some input?
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 1/3/2016 12:44pm
1/3/2016 12:44pm
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through everything and handled well. Time will yell, I'm sure he gets along with it though.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/3/2016 12:45pm
1/3/2016 12:45pm
shanexsan wrote:
tomac seems to mention the new Kawi's chassis over and over in recent videos and interviews. Some people say he's paid to say that etc etc...
tomac seems to mention the new Kawi's chassis over and over in recent videos and interviews. Some people say he's paid to say that etc etc but he sure does seem to harp on it a lot and I would think if Kawi was paying him to say exactly what they wanted then they would have him selling the power of the bike just as much as the chassis. This leads me to think he's genuinely happy with it and that he probably wasn't very happy with the Honda chassis. Thoughts? Anybody own a '16 kx450 who can provide some input?
I rode a '15 Honda and now have a '16 Kawasaki 450....the two chassis (I find) are quite similar...I think the Honda still turns better but the Kawasaki is more stable at speed, both feel light and flickable. Kawasaki has more cockpit room too.

Remembering ET had factory bikes, they wont be lacking in HP no matter what they are like in the showroom (if you honestly think that a 4-5 HP lacking bike in the showroom means the factory engines are slow then you live in a dreamworld, those in the know know how much Hondas can be improved power wise without becoming grenade bombs) and he has access to amazing suspension, so its natural that he would comment about the one thing they cannot change under the production rules...i.e. the chassis. Did the Honda chassis hold him back....I highly doubt it, imho.

RichardLoots 1/3/2016 12:57pm
1/3/2016 12:57pm
i remember a Tomac finishing a minute ahead on a Honda .... what a shitty bike that must have been Wink
jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/3/2016 1:06pm
1/3/2016 1:06pm
The Kawi's are made to be ridden aggressively to make them work good. Eli's style of riding should fit that bike about as perfect as anyone. It also might be , because he's still new on it , feels refreshed and starting something new. Just that alone can be a huge confidence booster for a guy. He sounds confident.....which could mean bad news for everyone else. Especially when they head outdoors.

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jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/3/2016 1:07pm
1/3/2016 1:07pm
RichardLoots wrote:
i remember a Tomac finishing a minute ahead on a Honda .... what a shitty bike that must have been Wink
One moto was 1:31. And he never said he disliked the Honda. Just needed something new.
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kiwifan 1/3/2016 1:43pm
1/3/2016 1:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2016 1:44pm
deltadestroyer11 wrote:
I would love to here more on this topic.. I'm very intrigued by the new Kawasaki's.
the HP thing is interesting....on a perfect track with lots of traction or loamy/sandy HP reigns and the Kawasaki shines (stock wise), on muddy or very hardpack where wheelspin is difficult to control then the Honda's linear power really helps hookup. Now my '15 Honda had a ton of HP thanks to some changes like cams, proper mapping, exhaust, etc...but its linear power was still there....so it still hooked up nicely where traction was lacking.

Then again the '16 power on the Kawasaki is less abrupt (apparently) than '15 so isnt too bad at all :-)
kongols
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kongols 1/3/2016 2:12pm
1/3/2016 2:12pm
Everything is great until you don`t win.
yak651
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yak651 1/3/2016 2:25pm
1/3/2016 2:25pm
kongols wrote:
Everything is great until you don`t win.
Yep, KR94 was loving that RMZ for the first 3 SX races and then it sucked the rest of the year...
deltadestroyer11 1/3/2016 2:36pm
1/3/2016 2:36pm
deltadestroyer11 wrote:
I would love to here more on this topic.. I'm very intrigued by the new Kawasaki's.
kiwifan wrote:
the HP thing is interesting....on a perfect track with lots of traction or loamy/sandy HP reigns and the Kawasaki shines (stock wise), on muddy or very...
the HP thing is interesting....on a perfect track with lots of traction or loamy/sandy HP reigns and the Kawasaki shines (stock wise), on muddy or very hardpack where wheelspin is difficult to control then the Honda's linear power really helps hookup. Now my '15 Honda had a ton of HP thanks to some changes like cams, proper mapping, exhaust, etc...but its linear power was still there....so it still hooked up nicely where traction was lacking.

Then again the '16 power on the Kawasaki is less abrupt (apparently) than '15 so isnt too bad at all :-)
Yeah I've got all the good mods on my Honda as well... Full FMF single exhaust..Stage two Hotcam..remapped for race gas.. 13:5:1 high compression piston..screenless filter and geared down two teeth.. Power is absolutely amazing..its very potent and much, much broader than stock with one hell of a top end rush. But the ergoes seem a little cramped.. not too bad though... What's my point.. I have no idea.. .seemed like a good opportunity to talk about how badass the power on my bike is. It really is impressive though. But I'm still intrigued by the Kawasaki and
aint ruling out buying one next yearyear. But its not for the power..I got all ilI'll ever need with my Honda...for sure!
Pete The Fisherman 1/3/2016 3:21pm
1/3/2016 3:21pm
Zycki11 wrote:
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through...
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through everything and handled well. Time will yell, I'm sure he gets along with it though.
His Honda didn't look like it was very balanced or handling well at Thunder Valley last year.
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zehn 1/3/2016 3:22pm
1/3/2016 3:22pm
Zycki11 wrote:
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through...
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through everything and handled well. Time will yell, I'm sure he gets along with it though.
Pete The Fisherman wrote:
His Honda didn't look like it was very balanced or handling well at Thunder Valley last year.
It did until it didn't
kb
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kb 1/3/2016 3:29pm
1/3/2016 3:29pm
Zycki11 wrote:
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through...
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through everything and handled well. Time will yell, I'm sure he gets along with it though.
I agree, right up until he wadded @ Colorado, his Honda looked awesome-
MANNERS226 1/3/2016 4:44pm
1/3/2016 4:44pm
The 16 KX450 now feels like a CRF450 without the CRF steering issues and a slightly better motor. It's like a A- in every aspect which makes a killer base.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/3/2016 5:31pm
1/3/2016 5:31pm
MANNERS226 wrote:
The 16 KX450 now feels like a CRF450 without the CRF steering issues and a slightly better motor. It's like a A- in every aspect which...
The 16 KX450 now feels like a CRF450 without the CRF steering issues and a slightly better motor. It's like a A- in every aspect which makes a killer base.
Kind of exactly my points above, although I think the CRF still is a slightly better cornering bike (except very wide sweeping ones, even in that respect)
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/3/2016 5:38pm
1/3/2016 5:38pm
deltadestroyer11 wrote:
I would love to here more on this topic.. I'm very intrigued by the new Kawasaki's.
kiwifan wrote:
the HP thing is interesting....on a perfect track with lots of traction or loamy/sandy HP reigns and the Kawasaki shines (stock wise), on muddy or very...
the HP thing is interesting....on a perfect track with lots of traction or loamy/sandy HP reigns and the Kawasaki shines (stock wise), on muddy or very hardpack where wheelspin is difficult to control then the Honda's linear power really helps hookup. Now my '15 Honda had a ton of HP thanks to some changes like cams, proper mapping, exhaust, etc...but its linear power was still there....so it still hooked up nicely where traction was lacking.

Then again the '16 power on the Kawasaki is less abrupt (apparently) than '15 so isnt too bad at all :-)
deltadestroyer11 wrote:
Yeah I've got all the good mods on my Honda as well... Full FMF single exhaust..Stage two Hotcam..remapped for race gas.. 13:5:1 high compression piston..screenless filter...
Yeah I've got all the good mods on my Honda as well... Full FMF single exhaust..Stage two Hotcam..remapped for race gas.. 13:5:1 high compression piston..screenless filter and geared down two teeth.. Power is absolutely amazing..its very potent and much, much broader than stock with one hell of a top end rush. But the ergoes seem a little cramped.. not too bad though... What's my point.. I have no idea.. .seemed like a good opportunity to talk about how badass the power on my bike is. It really is impressive though. But I'm still intrigued by the Kawasaki and
aint ruling out buying one next yearyear. But its not for the power..I got all ilI'll ever need with my Honda...for sure!
Totally agree with you there

For 2017 models, yeah for me toss up between Kawasaki, Honda and Suzuki...I dont get on with Yamaha and KTM chassis and cockpit layouts, I am sure they suit other riders just fine.
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51xc 1/3/2016 7:31pm
1/3/2016 7:31pm
Zycki11 wrote:
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through...
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through everything and handled well. Time will yell, I'm sure he gets along with it though.
one should think he rode at least the '15 bike before he signed with kawasaki when he was 100% healthy. so i guess that's where his confidence in the kx chassie comes from.

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Silliker269
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Silliker269 1/3/2016 7:51pm
1/3/2016 7:51pm
I think he will be able to carry the faster pace that he normally does with more comfort .. All he needs to do is get rid of a few mistakes and accept a 3rd or a 5th here and there. I would not be surprised if he got the title
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avidchimp 1/3/2016 9:30pm
1/3/2016 9:30pm
Zycki11 wrote:
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through...
As a fan you can only go by what you see. To be honest, his bike looked amazing outdoors last year. It was balanced, settling through everything and handled well. Time will yell, I'm sure he gets along with it though.
51xc wrote:
one should think he rode at least the '15 bike before he signed with kawasaki when he was 100% healthy. so i guess that's where his...
one should think he rode at least the '15 bike before he signed with kawasaki when he was 100% healthy. so i guess that's where his confidence in the kx chassie comes from.
Eli rode the '16 bike before he signed, which was before he got hurt.
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ML512 1/3/2016 9:32pm
1/3/2016 9:32pm
avidchimp wrote:
Eli rode the '16 bike before he signed, which was before he got hurt.
Hmmm... As far as I'm aware, that's not true...
avidchimp
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avidchimp 1/3/2016 9:53pm
1/3/2016 9:53pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2016 9:53pm
avidchimp wrote:
Eli rode the '16 bike before he signed, which was before he got hurt.
ML512 wrote:
Hmmm... As far as I'm aware, that's not true...
Could be wrong, but we all hear rumors.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/3/2016 11:37pm
1/3/2016 11:37pm
avidchimp wrote:
Eli rode the '16 bike before he signed, which was before he got hurt.
ML512 wrote:
Hmmm... As far as I'm aware, that's not true...
avidchimp wrote:
Could be wrong, but we all hear rumors.
Sounded like you knew with the words you used :-) Perhaps it would of been better saying 'I would of thought he would of ridden the '16 Kawasaki before he got hurt?'

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Dobermann 1/4/2016 12:25am
1/4/2016 12:25am
I buy tree weeks ago the new Kawi 16, this bike is very very incredible! When I put my ass on the seat and did two laps, I was incredulous of the lightness and ease of driving.
To be specified, I bought this Kawi!
The first test was in Maggiora, press test, if you want you can read(Sorry is in Italian), Maggiora is a track fast, not to difficult, other tracks in Italy not so big and hard pack like Maggiora, other are small, like SX but aren't SX, are in sand.
In short, the bike is perfect to me, very funny and a lot of power. Some say lost stability, I don't believe, I'm hight 1,86cm and weight 80kg, for now the bike is perfect std, I will see if to do some works on the bike!

If you want can see... :-)
http://blog.mxbars.net/?p=50145
motosickness 1/4/2016 6:20am
1/4/2016 6:20am
I've owned and ridden Hondas for the last 14 years. 9 new Hondas from 02 until my current 2014 to be exact. In my opinion as a die hard Honda owner the current geometry from 09 to present is garbage. It's very inconsistent and feels like it can bite you at anytime. I'm sure the factory teams do all different things with offsets, rakes and whatever but when it's all said and done the ride height required to make the bike less stink bugged leaves the bike too low and a bit sketchy.

I rode a 16 Kawi and by the 3rd lap it was so much better then my dialed in Honda that I was both happy and pissed off at the same time. Was ready to buy the new Kawi the next day until I rode the KTM, it was a tough choice but I ended up ordering the 2016 KTM 450 (still waiting for my dealer to get it in)

I can't believe that Honda has kept this current frame geometry for so long. You can make any modern bike go fast but changing the overall geometry is much more difficult! It works fine 95% of he time but the other 5% can put you on your head in a New York second.

Having said all of that if Honda corrected all of this on the 2017's then I'll probably be back on red. I won't however be running out to buy one until they are proven.
DooleyJ
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DooleyJ 1/4/2016 6:56am
1/4/2016 6:56am
If you look at the Chad Reed Chadapult, Justin Bogle's Unadilla 450 crash, and Tomac's crash; the Honda's front and rear wheels just swapped out simultaneously and the bike just went with the projectory which ever tire caught traction first. I have ridden Kawasaki since 2004, have ridden a 2013 CRF450, actually liked it, but in my opinion the chassis of the Honda contributed to the instances mentioned. I did have my 86 CR500 bite me once like that, never realized I could scrape my neck on the ground during a crash - ouch. The lower fork bolt twisted in two during that wild ride.
deltadestroyer11 1/4/2016 9:36am
1/4/2016 9:36am
So the kaw bike as a whole just feels more safe and planted....what else? Really like hearing these honest opinions.. And yes.. I hate to say it but my Honda does often times..actually most of the time feel like it could bite me at any second..its a creepy feeling that I never had with my 05 kx 250 2 stroke.. Damn, I feel like a traitor!!
kiwifan
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kiwifan 1/4/2016 11:07am
1/4/2016 11:07am
deltadestroyer11 wrote:
So the kaw bike as a whole just feels more safe and planted....what else? Really like hearing these honest opinions.. And yes.. I hate to say...
So the kaw bike as a whole just feels more safe and planted....what else? Really like hearing these honest opinions.. And yes.. I hate to say it but my Honda does often times..actually most of the time feel like it could bite me at any second..its a creepy feeling that I never had with my 05 kx 250 2 stroke.. Damn, I feel like a traitor!!
Gotta ride what you feel comfortable on, I never had these chassis problems with my Hondas in the past, perhaps its how you set them up and perhaps riding style...that said (and getting back to the thread topic) yes the Kawasaki is solid for me, doesn't mean it will be solid for you of course :-)
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MXD 1/4/2016 12:38pm
1/4/2016 12:38pm
The best way to describe my 16 KX is it turns like my 11 RMZ 450 but it's stable and faster. The faster is no big deal but the more stable part makes the biggest difference. I feel safe on it while not sacrificing any cornering which has, until now, always been the great trade off.

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