150f vs 85

I have a 150, a KX85 and a KX109 all in our stable. The 150 is faster than the stock 85. However that 109 blows it out of the water.

The biggest factor in keeping my boy on the 2 stroke as long as possible was costs. Top ends on a 85 are cheap. That 150 costs basically the same as the 4 strokes to work on.

It wasn't a problem for us, but I have seen smaller kids struggle with starting that 150.

150 can not race in an AMA 85 class. It is supermini only. Most local outlaw races allow it though.....

supermini blows the 150 out of the water, performance, cost.

in terms of supermini that must be the case or you'd see more people on 150s. i just feel like at this point "they" should be able to get the 150s more competitive then they are. i mean the honda 150 hasn't really changed at all since it came out has it? and no other brands have pushed to make one. even husky with alll the different bikes they make. i dont know why i'm still talking about this lol

The 150s are a good bike but not an advantage .Watching mumford at the monster cup last year showed that. His is fuel injected and very trick also....interested to see how things go with it as its been out for 10 years now and still hasnt got much following.

I thought they were really cool and fun. They almost have as much power as a 125.

rongi#401 wrote:

supermini blows the 150 out of the water, performance, cost.

Not so fast, those bikes were higher performing IMO. They made a very impressive amount of power, more compared to most supermini's.

rongi#401 wrote:

supermini blows the 150 out of the water, performance, cost.

m.hardesty16 wrote:

Not so fast, those bikes were higher performing IMO. They made a very impressive amount of power, more compared to most supermini's.

my younger brother had both, he had a 112 yamaha, and a mod 150. and guess wich one collected dust.

Just think what they would be if the AMA didn't handcuff them to the super mini class, and Honda actually developed them. They have been identical for the last 10 years since they came out......

m.hardesty16 wrote:

I thought they were really cool and fun. They almost have as much power as a 125.

No, they don't.

I think I recall the 150 being dyno'd at around 21 / 23 HP when they first came out, depending on the Dyno / Operator.

It would be interesting to see what Tuners get out of them, but they do seem to get pretty fragile when breathed on - like any motor , but seemingly more so than most.

Honda could have followed the rules that were in place that allowed 125 4ts (in the US - AMA I think had that) against 85cc 2ts, but no, they thought they'd be able to 'create' a new set of rules. Plenty of Federations got on their knees, as usual, to Honda, but a few told them to go fuck themselves, and, some Federations said no from the get go.

Like most Minicycles, they've left them the same for a long time, so, they might just be making a reasonable profit on them. My local Honda and Suzuki shop has a steady tick over on them, just as they do with the RM85s.

holtergeist797 wrote:

it occurred to me today the small number of 150 4 strokes that race in the 85cc class. carson mumford being one of the only guys that I can really think of that competes on one at a top level in amateurs

just wondering what other peoples thoughts are on four stroke mini bikes and maybe why there hasn't been a push from other manufacturers to put something out. I always thought when honda came out with its race bike that it was going to be extremely competitive and the rest of the brands would follow but it's almost like the complete opposite has happened

I would think they can make a 150 as fast or even faster then and 85 two-stroke and it would be a great transition to big bikes considering they are both four strokes

or actually, am I completely wrong about this and they can only race in the supermini class? 150 can race with 85s right?

They're ticking time bombs and an exponentially higher cost than standard super mini's to rebuild.

Kids learn to ride a lot better on a 2stroke 85. They learn to shift a lot and learn to corner very smooth en keep the momentum.

cheers_22 wrote:

They're ticking time bombs and an exponentially higher cost than standard super mini's to rebuild.

Definitely not a ticking time bombs, CRF150R is super reliable. We have raced on CRF150R's for four seasons and not a single engine failure on stock or modified ones. Guys went over 120 hours on their stock practice bikes without need to open the engine or even adjust valves (they are steel ones).

cheers_22 wrote:

They're ticking time bombs and an exponentially higher cost than standard super mini's to rebuild.

That is not true. You can say a lot about the CRF150r but it is FAR from a ticking time bomb.

It is actually by far the most reliable bike in the 85cc class.

ron36 wrote:

Kids learn to ride a lot better on a 2stroke 85. They learn to shift a lot and learn to corner very smooth en keep the momentum.

This. End/thread

I think the 150 is like all other bikes in that when you start pushing the envelope for power, reliability suffers. As many have mentioned, cost is the biggest issue. It simply cost much more to build and maintain a highly modified 150 compared to a highly modified 112 two stroke. Mind you, I'm talking highly modified and not a stock CRF150rb vs a stock KX100.

I owned a 150 when I was younger. It was a brand new 2008...I rode it for 3 years then sold it to my friend and he used that as his practice bike for lorettas then he sold it to his buddy and he rode it for 2 years. Never put a dime into it besides the normal maintenance. I don't see a 85 2 stroke doing that.

holtergeist797 wrote:

it occurred to me today the small number of 150 4 strokes that race in the 85cc class. carson mumford being one of the only guys that I can really think of that competes on one at a top level in amateurs

just wondering what other peoples thoughts are on four stroke mini bikes and maybe why there hasn't been a push from other manufacturers to put something out. I always thought when honda came out with its race bike that it was going to be extremely competitive and the rest of the brands would follow but it's almost like the complete opposite has happened

I would think they can make a 150 as fast or even faster then and 85 two-stroke and it would be a great transition to big bikes considering they are both four strokes

or actually, am I completely wrong about this and they can only race in the supermini class? 150 can race with 85s right?

cheers_22 wrote:

They're ticking time bombs and an exponentially higher cost than standard super mini's to rebuild.

Motofinne wrote:

That is not true. You can say a lot about the CRF150r but it is FAR from a ticking time bomb.

It is actually by far the most reliable bike in the 85cc class.

^^

I THNIK THAT SUSZUKI RM85 IS A FASTER THAN THIS BIKE ESPECALY WITH A VFORCE

A 150 would make a good pitbike

I'm not sure about the crf150r at a high competitive level but as a fun track bike, Its a blast. My wife loves it and will choose it over any other bike. It has been super reliable too. I was worried about owning a small bore 4-stroke but I seriously have no complaints. I make sure I take it out at least once every practice day just to "check it over"

i think im guna buy one for my gf, and maybe ill spin it also once in a while

that thing was bad as fuck tho
i think theyre sick bikes. should you only ride a 150 and never an 85? no. you need to learn on a 2 stroke.

Silly argument! All of them. Let's be real, here. 4 strokes are fast, but they do nothing for you. 2 strokes? Holy crap. Smell the fuel or hear the screaming of the engines.

When you have a 2 stroke pinned at 12,000 rpm, you're the shit. Life is all sketched out and you're feel'n it. There's just no comparison.

My buddy just got one for his wife. Cool little bike. Would have liked to ride one when I was the appropriate size.

Toneconsultant wrote:

Silly argument! All of them. Let's be real, here. 4 strokes are fast, but they do nothing for you. 2 strokes? Holy crap. Smell the fuel or hear the screaming of the engines.

When you have a 2 stroke pinned at 12,000 rpm, you're the shit. Life is all sketched out and you're feel'n it. There's just no comparison.

Now this guy gets it.

At 12k even if you're not goin fast, you feel like you are!!! (we do this for fun, rite?)

That's the end of the thread.

Watchin the Assen GP from a spectators camera sounds like a gang bathroom after the breakfast buffet at a fkn nursing home, not a mx race.
Old school bias aside, hell ya a 2T will make you a better rider. You can learn the fine touch of slipping/feathering the clutch to proceed, or rely on a $12k fart can w/ traction control & more MBPS processing than Apollo13 to do it for you. Oh and don't forget the "holeshot device BS". Hannah would shove that up ur azz and still holeshot you.

Toneconsultant wrote:

Silly argument! All of them. Let's be real, here. 4 strokes are fast, but they do nothing for you. 2 strokes? Holy crap. Smell the fuel or hear the screaming of the engines.

When you have a 2 stroke pinned at 12,000 rpm, you're the shit. Life is all sketched out and you're feel'n it. There's just no comparison.

cvm wrote:

Now this guy gets it.

At 12k even if you're not goin fast, you feel like you are!!! (we do this for fun, rite?)

That's the end of the thread.

Watchin the Assen GP from a spectators camera sounds like a gang bathroom after the breakfast buffet at a fkn nursing home, not a mx race.
Old school bias aside, hell ya a 2T will make you a better rider. You can learn the fine touch of slipping/feathering the clutch to proceed, or rely on a $12k fart can w/ traction control & more MBPS processing than Apollo13 to do it for you. Oh and don't forget the "holeshot device BS". Hannah would shove that up ur azz and still holeshot you.

Which has the highest power to wieght? super-mini, 125, 250t or 250f..

sgrimmxdad wrote:

I have a 150, a KX85 and a KX109 all in our stable. The 150 is faster than the stock 85. However that 109 blows it out of the water.

The biggest factor in keeping my boy on the 2 stroke as long as possible was costs. Top ends on a 85 are cheap. That 150 costs basically the same as the 4 strokes to work on.

It wasn't a problem for us, but I have seen smaller kids struggle with starting that 150.

150 can not race in an AMA 85 class. It is supermini only. Most local outlaw races allow it though.....

The 150 is legal in the 85 class starting at 12 years old in AMA racing...

MxKing809 wrote:

Just think what they would be if the AMA didn't handcuff them to the super mini class, and Honda actually developed them. They have been identical for the last 10 years since they came out......

AMA allows the 150 in the 85 class starting at 12 years old. It's not legal in the 85 class for ages 11 and under.