125 c.c. class @ 2020 Outdoor Nationals

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12/7/2019 7:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/14/2019 9:36 PM

Fun article with the 2019 de Facto 125 National Champ John Ayers Jr. by Davey Coombs.

Between-the-motos-john-ayers-jr

For 2020 will there be a real 125 series ?

East - West with a final of the top 20 from each coast at the last round ?

2 Motos so its worth making the investment and effort ? Keep track of points ?

One Moto starting the day and one at intermission?

Open to amateurs and former pros ?

Not call it the 125 All Stars ?

The track is already there. Time can be made if enough people are interested ?

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12/9/2019 6:29 AM

John is a good rider. It was cool that he rode all of the events. This year, his bike will be a little more dialed in, so I look for him to have better results.

I doubt there will be a legit series yet, but it would be cool. Hopefully it gets to that point.

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12/14/2019 9:42 PM

What will it take to have a 125 East / West Series at the outdoors in 2020 ?

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12/14/2019 10:08 PM

Why the hell would they want to do that?
It would grow our sport and save it from ruin.

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"If you are going through HELL, keep going."-Winston Churchill
"A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free"-Zorba

12/14/2019 10:47 PM

Maybe DC will chime in on the plans for 125's and the great outdoors? I hope it can become a real series!

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12/14/2019 11:02 PM

FI2T wrote:

Maybe DC will chime in on the plans for 125's and the great outdoors? I hope it can become a real series!

Old Japan companies have dropped 2-strokes and I guess they dont want that class grow too much. I guess keeping 125cc just occasional event will keep big sponsors happy.

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12/15/2019 12:06 AM

Think it will be one hell off a feeder class!
Look @ the mxgp series...
Would be perfect for young people to show what they got, they can ride on the national tracks. Get coverage, spectators.
All off this to get the perfect transistion to the 250f...

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12/15/2019 2:49 AM

If Suzuki returned with a decent 125 it could potentially reignite their brand. At least add some interest anyways.

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12/15/2019 12:21 PM

Just my opinion, but this is something they NEED to do.

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'75-'83 through the minicycle boom.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was fast... But being fast is relative to who else is on the track with you.

ZachO fan! ZO16

TG243 fan!

12/15/2019 12:44 PM

Regular 125 class is the missing link.

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12/15/2019 1:55 PM

The stupidest thing ama fim manufactures did was to get rid of historically the best selling bike.

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12/15/2019 2:15 PM

The 125 class is thriving in England and Italy

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If you like uncle tony's meatballs, you'll love his sausage

Now that's Italian

12/15/2019 2:35 PM

I think more and more local race promoters are seeing the interest and adding 125 classes back into their programs. If you have a 125, ask your local track to make a class for you to race in... That's where it has to start. Meantime, I built a pretty amazing YZ125, which, will be featured soon in our Vital Race Shop feature, so I can hit a couple of the 125 All Star races in 2020. So fun.

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12/15/2019 4:10 PM

Nicholas_Lindenberg wrote:

If Suzuki returned with a decent 125 it could potentially reignite their brand. At least add some interest anyways.

If Suzuki returned with their 2008 RM125 they'd have success or even return with a retrofitted 125af like some have speculated with the way the designed the latest rmz250 frame cradle in the front to allow for a 2 stroke pipe without having to cut and change the frame

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12/15/2019 6:05 PM

Nicholas_Lindenberg wrote:

If Suzuki returned with a decent 125 it could potentially reignite their brand. At least add some interest anyways.

Lightning78 wrote:

If Suzuki returned with their 2008 RM125 they'd have success or even return with a retrofitted 125af like some have speculated with the way the designed the latest rmz250 frame cradle in the front to allow for a 2 stroke pipe without having to cut and change the frame

I told my son I'd buy him one (after Donn's report), he's still waiting.

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"If you are going through HELL, keep going."-Winston Churchill
"A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free"-Zorba

12/15/2019 6:12 PM

What happened to the "Suzuki RM125 AF coming out" thread, did it get deleted? Hey Maverick, ,,

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"If you are going through HELL, keep going."-Winston Churchill
"A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free"-Zorba

12/15/2019 6:20 PM

oldblood wrote:

What happened to the "Suzuki RM125 AF coming out" thread, did it get deleted? Hey Maverick, ,,

https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Suzuki-RM-125-AF-coming-out,1357458

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

12/15/2019 6:20 PM

Reach out to KTM to spark interest..... Since they have GasGas now, they could soon have their own series for the most part. They would have three brands screaming around the track, on a national level. That's three different choices for potential buyers under one umbrella, KTM couldn't lose with sales. Surely to God Japan would take notice, possibly even light a fire under Yamaha's ass to update their iron a bit? Probably never happen, but it could work. If there is will, there is a way.......

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12/15/2019 6:21 PM

oldblood wrote:

What happened to the "Suzuki RM125 AF coming out" thread, did it get deleted? Hey Maverick, ,,

Thanks, I might revive it just for the pics(and off season).

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"If you are going through HELL, keep going."-Winston Churchill
"A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free"-Zorba

12/15/2019 7:10 PM

There are so many reasons why this won’t work as a feeder class.

If you are an up and coming rider, nationally known or just locally fast, odds heavily are you’re on a 250f and a 450. 125’s to anyone above 15 are novelty bikes, not race machines.

Forcing up and comers to buy or borrow novelties and follow a national series is a huge ask. Especially when (in my opinion based on my location) pro rider entries have tanked massively. The goal is to feed and develop riders. Not devolve them to yesteryears technology.

Although it wouldn’t sound as cool and you guys know I am THAT two stroke guy, a real feeder class needs to be production 250f’s adhering to the limited amateur rules. Open to former pros. Open to local A and B riders. Pro racing is done on four strokes. Until the rules change (to follow market demand) it will continue to be four stroke racing.

Accept 80 entries. Give them two 15 minute timed qualifying practices. Take top 40 into one 20 minute moto. develop the riders and accustom them to the pro experience. If you force them to ride 125’s you get 35 entries, guys riding 96 CR 125’s, and 6-10 A riders on borrowed bikes. If you make it a 250 A/B limited class you’ll have filled gates and actual competition development. 100% payback. Have a points system. National championship it.

Be realistic guys. Race two strokes locally for fun. If you want two strokes in the national classes, go buy two strokes at your local dealer.

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12/15/2019 8:11 PM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

There are so many reasons why this won’t work as a feeder class.

If you are an up and coming rider, nationally known or just locally fast, odds heavily are you’re on a 250f and a 450. 125’s to anyone above 15 are novelty bikes, not race machines.

Forcing up and comers to buy or borrow novelties and follow a national series is a huge ask. Especially when (in my opinion based on my location) pro rider entries have tanked massively. The goal is to feed and develop riders. Not devolve them to yesteryears technology.

Although it wouldn’t sound as cool and you guys know I am THAT two stroke guy, a real feeder class needs to be production 250f’s adhering to the limited amateur rules. Open to former pros. Open to local A and B riders. Pro racing is done on four strokes. Until the rules change (to follow market demand) it will continue to be four stroke racing.

Accept 80 entries. Give them two 15 minute timed qualifying practices. Take top 40 into one 20 minute moto. develop the riders and accustom them to the pro experience. If you force them to ride 125’s you get 35 entries, guys riding 96 CR 125’s, and 6-10 A riders on borrowed bikes. If you make it a 250 A/B limited class you’ll have filled gates and actual competition development. 100% payback. Have a points system. National championship it.

Be realistic guys. Race two strokes locally for fun. If you want two strokes in the national classes, go buy two strokes at your local dealer.

I disagree. You're wrong.

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"If you are going through HELL, keep going."-Winston Churchill
"A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free"-Zorba

12/16/2019 3:53 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

There are so many reasons why this won’t work as a feeder class.

If you are an up and coming rider, nationally known or just locally fast, odds heavily are you’re on a 250f and a 450. 125’s to anyone above 15 are novelty bikes, not race machines.

Forcing up and comers to buy or borrow novelties and follow a national series is a huge ask. Especially when (in my opinion based on my location) pro rider entries have tanked massively. The goal is to feed and develop riders. Not devolve them to yesteryears technology.

Although it wouldn’t sound as cool and you guys know I am THAT two stroke guy, a real feeder class needs to be production 250f’s adhering to the limited amateur rules. Open to former pros. Open to local A and B riders. Pro racing is done on four strokes. Until the rules change (to follow market demand) it will continue to be four stroke racing.

Accept 80 entries. Give them two 15 minute timed qualifying practices. Take top 40 into one 20 minute moto. develop the riders and accustom them to the pro experience. If you force them to ride 125’s you get 35 entries, guys riding 96 CR 125’s, and 6-10 A riders on borrowed bikes. If you make it a 250 A/B limited class you’ll have filled gates and actual competition development. 100% payback. Have a points system. National championship it.

Be realistic guys. Race two strokes locally for fun. If you want two strokes in the national classes, go buy two strokes at your local dealer.

The real fast kids won’t need to bother with a 125 class on a national level, but where I can see it being great is giving guys like Chris alldredge that had all the talent but couldn’t put it together a stage to potentially get given another go. Not to mention the racing would be fucking unreal.

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12/16/2019 3:53 AM

oldblood wrote:

I disagree. You're wrong.

Hahaha okay tell me why you disagree.

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12/16/2019 4:00 AM

fanger wrote:

The real fast kids won’t need to bother with a 125 class on a national level, but where I can see it being great is giving guys like Chris alldredge that had all the talent but couldn’t put it together a stage to potentially get given another go. Not to mention the racing would be fucking unreal.

We already saw that this year. Chris raced a few rounds and broke his body at a local race. I’ve talked to him. I like him. He has a full time job making good money. He does not race for a living he races to race and collects beer money.

It’s not like teams are going to field a 5-6th rider for a 125 class. If you’re an orange brigade rider they might allow you to pit under the tent after you paid to drive and be there.

Only one guy did all the races this year and that’s because it was his job to be there.

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12/16/2019 7:19 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

There are so many reasons why this won’t work as a feeder class.

If you are an up and coming rider, nationally known or just locally fast, odds heavily are you’re on a 250f and a 450. 125’s to anyone above 15 are novelty bikes, not race machines.

Forcing up and comers to buy or borrow novelties and follow a national series is a huge ask. Especially when (in my opinion based on my location) pro rider entries have tanked massively. The goal is to feed and develop riders. Not devolve them to yesteryears technology.

Although it wouldn’t sound as cool and you guys know I am THAT two stroke guy, a real feeder class needs to be production 250f’s adhering to the limited amateur rules. Open to former pros. Open to local A and B riders. Pro racing is done on four strokes. Until the rules change (to follow market demand) it will continue to be four stroke racing.

Accept 80 entries. Give them two 15 minute timed qualifying practices. Take top 40 into one 20 minute moto. develop the riders and accustom them to the pro experience. If you force them to ride 125’s you get 35 entries, guys riding 96 CR 125’s, and 6-10 A riders on borrowed bikes. If you make it a 250 A/B limited class you’ll have filled gates and actual competition development. 100% payback. Have a points system. National championship it.

Be realistic guys. Race two strokes locally for fun. If you want two strokes in the national classes, go buy two strokes at your local dealer.

oldblood wrote:

I disagree. You're wrong.

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

Hahaha okay tell me why you disagree.

Because he is stuck.in.the 80 s. Bikes,riders, tracks all advance. Some dont understand it. Lol.

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12/16/2019 7:39 AM

The EMX 125 class is going well across the pond. Rougher tracks , riders cutting their teeth on those tracks before moving to the 4 stroke. Looks like a good system to me.

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12/16/2019 7:52 AM

An east\ west 125 series in 2020 so you don't have to drive all over the country to compete in the series.

Top 20 in points from each coast in a shootout at the final round.

Series run by the AMA who already has people at every round.

Will someone else please come up with a list of Positive and Negative attributes we could discuss further ?

What is the plan for a 125 series at this point in time for 2020 ?

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12/16/2019 8:00 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

There are so many reasons why this won’t work as a feeder class.

If you are an up and coming rider, nationally known or just locally fast, odds heavily are you’re on a 250f and a 450. 125’s to anyone above 15 are novelty bikes, not race machines.

Forcing up and comers to buy or borrow novelties and follow a national series is a huge ask. Especially when (in my opinion based on my location) pro rider entries have tanked massively. The goal is to feed and develop riders. Not devolve them to yesteryears technology.

Although it wouldn’t sound as cool and you guys know I am THAT two stroke guy, a real feeder class needs to be production 250f’s adhering to the limited amateur rules. Open to former pros. Open to local A and B riders. Pro racing is done on four strokes. Until the rules change (to follow market demand) it will continue to be four stroke racing.

Accept 80 entries. Give them two 15 minute timed qualifying practices. Take top 40 into one 20 minute moto. develop the riders and accustom them to the pro experience. If you force them to ride 125’s you get 35 entries, guys riding 96 CR 125’s, and 6-10 A riders on borrowed bikes. If you make it a 250 A/B limited class you’ll have filled gates and actual competition development. 100% payback. Have a points system. National championship it.

Be realistic guys. Race two strokes locally for fun. If you want two strokes in the national classes, go buy two strokes at your local dealer.

fanger wrote:

The real fast kids won’t need to bother with a 125 class on a national level, but where I can see it being great is giving guys like Chris alldredge that had all the talent but couldn’t put it together a stage to potentially get given another go. Not to mention the racing would be fucking unreal.

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

We already saw that this year. Chris raced a few rounds and broke his body at a local race. I’ve talked to him. I like him. He has a full time job making good money. He does not race for a living he races to race and collects beer money.

It’s not like teams are going to field a 5-6th rider for a 125 class. If you’re an orange brigade rider they might allow you to pit under the tent after you paid to drive and be there.

Only one guy did all the races this year and that’s because it was his job to be there.

Only one guy did all the races because it's currently an exhibition. Why would you travel the US for a one moto 4 lap race that pays no points? Make it a series and I'm pretty sure it would have more interest behind it. An East/West with top 10 from each going to final (similar to pass Vegas SX) at Iron Man would be cool. Give that race some excitement if the 250 and 450 points battles are already settled. Maybe Suzuki and Kawasaki would bring back a 125 (we know Honda isn't) if they see the interest. If it's already settled that no interest from the OEM's why is it so successful in Europe?

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12/16/2019 8:13 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

There are so many reasons why this won’t work as a feeder class.

If you are an up and coming rider, nationally known or just locally fast, odds heavily are you’re on a 250f and a 450. 125’s to anyone above 15 are novelty bikes, not race machines.

Forcing up and comers to buy or borrow novelties and follow a national series is a huge ask. Especially when (in my opinion based on my location) pro rider entries have tanked massively. The goal is to feed and develop riders. Not devolve them to yesteryears technology.

Although it wouldn’t sound as cool and you guys know I am THAT two stroke guy, a real feeder class needs to be production 250f’s adhering to the limited amateur rules. Open to former pros. Open to local A and B riders. Pro racing is done on four strokes. Until the rules change (to follow market demand) it will continue to be four stroke racing.

Accept 80 entries. Give them two 15 minute timed qualifying practices. Take top 40 into one 20 minute moto. develop the riders and accustom them to the pro experience. If you force them to ride 125’s you get 35 entries, guys riding 96 CR 125’s, and 6-10 A riders on borrowed bikes. If you make it a 250 A/B limited class you’ll have filled gates and actual competition development. 100% payback. Have a points system. National championship it.

Be realistic guys. Race two strokes locally for fun. If you want two strokes in the national classes, go buy two strokes at your local dealer.

I agree somewhat.

As i watch team green riders move up.. they go from super minis to a 125 just long enough to get used to a big sized bike before going to the 250f. So as a “feeder class” i dont know how accurate that would be unless theres a major shift in how people move up.

Lets say instead of seth hammacker getting on a 250f, he has to prove himself on a kx125 in this national series and then he can move to a 250f for pro circuit.

Another issue is most main brands dont make 125’s. Kids would be forced to ride 10+ year old bikes. How long is that sustainable until every frame is trashed and you cant get new ones?

Is this new 125 series supposed to replace other big amateur races? Is a race on the same national track as ken roczen the new test?

The novelty thing is great but an east/west type thing would be great too even if the big amateurs such as hammaker or deegan wouldnt be racing it.

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12/16/2019 8:21 AM

oldblood wrote:

I disagree. You're wrong.

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

Hahaha okay tell me why you disagree.

mxb2 wrote:

Because he is stuck.in.the 80 s. Bikes,riders, tracks all advance. Some dont understand it. Lol.

Or they understand just fine and are fully aware that 2st's are better. Not least because they make racing SOOOOO much more fun to watch.

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