10w 40 in 2 stroke premix

Related:
Create New Tag

12/27/2019 3:04 AM

I’m new to owning a 2 stroke , I bought a new 2019 gas gas ec300.
Now the guy in the shop told me to use motul 10w 40 for pre mix. Since I bought the bike it has not been idling properly, I’ve been reading online and I’ve found out I could have done damage to the bike using this oil. The bike currently has 4 hours and I’ve only ran a full tank with the 10w 40 after the bike ran out with what the shop put in.
I’ve now drained the tank and will be going back in the shop tomorrow to see why they told me to use 4t oil in the bike. I’m asking on here if there would be any severe damage done to my new bike from this oil.
Thanks

|

12/27/2019 3:30 AM

I have seen pistons totally scratched up from using motor oil instead of using twostroke oil in the fuel.
You could be lucky , but i would inspect true exhaust port first.



|

12/27/2019 4:59 AM

|

HAF

12/27/2019 6:15 AM

When I was a kid I seen other kids push a bike to the gas pump, put gas in then put a few glop's of motor oil in the bike and shake the bike like hell and take off.

I would not run it. I would get some yamalube R

|

12/27/2019 6:18 AM

Could you have misunderstood when the shop told you to run 10w40 oil in the transmission?

|

12/27/2019 6:18 AM

I know of a guy that runs 1980s twinshock bikes- 400-500cc Maicos and that type of thing. He uses 10/40 oil for pre-mix also! I know, I couldn’t believe it either. I don’t remember what ratio he used though, but he’s used it forever and will continue to.

I guess, oil is oil to some extent... if you put a quantity of any oil in petroleum it will by virtue become more lubricative than straight petrol. But you must know your ratios to get it right.

That said, all the time there’s two-stroke oil on the market & available, why would you even think about using something else??

|

12/27/2019 7:07 AM

What does the owners manual say to use. use That!! If the engine did not suffer some sort of damage I would be very surprised. Hope it ends well for you.

|

2010 crf450
2002 cr125
1993 Yamaha waveblaster
1993 Kawasaki 750sx

12/27/2019 8:23 AM

People ran motor oils as premix all the time before 2 stroke oil was a thing.

Usually 30 weight but I doubt your motor has any sort of damage. Just drain the tank and carb and start fresh with some proper mix.

|

12/27/2019 8:33 AM

Matt_Becket wrote:

I’m new to owning a 2 stroke , I bought a new 2019 gas gas ec300.
Now the guy in the shop told me to use motul 10w 40 for pre mix. Since I bought the bike it has not been idling properly, I’ve been reading online and I’ve found out I could have done damage to the bike using this oil. The bike currently has 4 hours and I’ve only ran a full tank with the 10w 40 after the bike ran out with what the shop put in.
I’ve now drained the tank and will be going back in the shop tomorrow to see why they told me to use 4t oil in the bike. I’m asking on here if there would be any severe damage done to my new bike from this oil.
Thanks

For PRE-MIX?

10-40w 4T is for the gearbox. Someone misunderstood something somewhere.

|

2015 Kawasaki KX 250F
2015 GasGas TXT Racing 125
2015 Husqvarna TC 125
2018 KTM 150 XC-W

12/27/2019 8:45 AM

Moto Tribology can probably give you some additional info, but here's why you want to run 2-stroke oil: Not because it will prevent damage better, but because it knows when to GTFO.

2-stroke oil has a tough job; it needs to maintain film strength in a harsh (gasoline) solution, provide a cooling and lubricative effect in one piston stroke, and then be completely vaporized and exit the engine along with the exhaust. As you may have guessed, no oil can do that perfectly, so even the best 2-stroke oils are a compromise.
Regular engine oil, however, has different flash points, different additives, and is not designed to vaporize instantly. It will therefore clog up your engine with excess carbon and sludge. You may notice a lot of black goo coming out your exhaust (common for 2-strokes, but amplified when running 10W-40.) This may be why you are experiencing an idling problem. Motor Oil is also less efficient at staying "oily" in a gasoline bath, which is what you're doing when premixing it.

I wouldn't worry too much about engine damage - yet - but switch over to a good 2-stroke oil immediately. Drain your fuel and start fresh (try to minimize the mixing of the oils). Here are some of my favorites and some that I've heard good recommendations about:
Bel-Ray H1R or MC-1
Maxima K2
Motul 710 2T
Yamalube 2R
Honda HP-1


|

Braaapin' aint easy.

12/27/2019 9:02 AM

Good 10/40 will be fine. In a low stres,s watercooled modern two stroke. Dedicated 2 stroke oil would be better but no harm will be done using that stuff. It lubricates 4 stroke engines which have higher loading almost everywhere successfully.

|

If the glass is half full it's twice as big as it needs to be.

12/27/2019 10:05 AM

Momus wrote:

Good 10/40 will be fine. In a low stres,s watercooled modern two stroke. Dedicated 2 stroke oil would be better but no harm will be done using that stuff. It lubricates 4 stroke engines which have higher loading almost everywhere successfully.

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?


Matt,

Switch to a 2 stroke oil. Any bottom of the barrel 2 stroke oil whatsoever will be better than a 10W-40 4-stroke oil used a premix.

The lubrication is different; there are different requirements for a 2-stroke oil that a 4-stroke oil just won't have because:
a) it would be severely detrimental to 4-stroke engine's lubrication and
b) there is absolutely no need for a 4-stroke oil to have those attributes


For all those reminiscing, yes, there was a time when a 30wt engine oil could be used for premix. That time is what we in the industry call "the past". We are no longer in that time; just as we are no longer in a time where we load coal into our locomotives and don't lace our medicines with cocaine for its "healing properties".


As others have mentioned, either you or the salesperson were confused about the recommendation. The 10W-40 is for the transmission, not for premixing into the fuel. Switch to a 2-stroke oil for the premix and do it at the right ratio and be on your way. You probably didn't do any permanent damage in 1 tank, and any sludge or deposits will likely sort themselves out over time with a decent oil in the mix.

|

I'm just here for the oil threads.

MotoTribology.com - Motorcycle Lubrication Education

12/27/2019 10:11 AM

|

12/27/2019 10:15 AM

Is this real

|

12/27/2019 10:45 AM

I'm sure someone will jump me for recommending a budget oil, but if you can buy Lucas at a car store for the same price as 10W40, why on earth wouldn't you just do that?

As a kid in the 80s-90s I lived in the country and ran Penzoil two stroke outboard oil because it was readily available. My dad's rationale was that if it's good enough to protect a 1$5K two stroke outboard, it would probably be fine for a dirt bike. We never had any issues with failures. Point being, I think even outboard oil would be better than 10W40.

I think the dude at your dealership just had his wires crossed.

|

12/27/2019 10:47 AM

kb228 wrote:

Is this real

You'd be surprised some of the things I've heard directly and secondhand from dealer's mouths. The same can be said about owners, but the dealer employees should know better.

|

I'm just here for the oil threads.

MotoTribology.com - Motorcycle Lubrication Education

12/27/2019 11:07 AM

The real reason you want to run two stroke oil is it smells way better doing its job.

|

12/27/2019 12:05 PM

I would bet you could probably go into the cupboard and use any cooking oil you find, what do you think castor oil is? I remember my dad who was a flattracker in the 50s and early 60s pulling a can of 10/40 off the shelf, putting the spout in and mixing me a batch of gas in the early 70s, I would guess he probably raised the ratio because of the weight. Is it as good as some of the specialty oils today, probably not. Is it as good as some of the specialty oils today, probably. There didn't used to be 10,000 different oils, there was oil. I was helping a friend move yesterday, I was cleaning off a shelf full of oils, some full, some not, most marked specifically for certain bikes. Oil companies have found out that you can sell more oil, and for a higher price if you market it for specific things. I took it all and dumped it into 2 nearly empty 5qt jugs. I'll be using it for my simple 4 stroke engines in things like lawn equipment and generators. Pretty sure I'll be OK.

|

12/27/2019 12:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/27/2019 2:29 PM

kb228 wrote:

Is this real

Its a troll, when ever school is out for Xmas break they show up in droves and you can always tell because they all are brand new vital accounts and start stupid threads like this one.

|

Ed Johnson

12/27/2019 1:03 PM

"What in the actual fuck are you talking about?" wins the internet today...

|

12/27/2019 1:45 PM

Brand new 2 stroke , owner uses 10-40w tranny oil in for premix.......
I just shed a couple tears I think.

Why in god's name would you do that , when you could of just bought a good recommended 2 stroke oil? I'm not an engineer or any kind of oil expert , but there is a serious difference in the way those oils burn I would think.

I don't get or understand some of the things people do to their bikes , but this is just full on stupid in my eyes.

|

And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

12/27/2019 1:53 PM

jeffro503 wrote:

Brand new 2 stroke , owner uses 10-40w tranny oil in for premix.......
I just shed a couple tears I think.

Why in god's name would you do that , when you could of just bought a good recommended 2 stroke oil? I'm not an engineer or any kind of oil expert , but there is a serious difference in the way those oils burn I would think.

I don't get or understand some of the things people do to their bikes , but this is just full on stupid in my eyes.

Clearly explains he thought the dealer told him to do so.

Sometimes mistakes happen.

In this situation, it was far from catastrophic. Luckily.

Motor oils still burn cleaner than castor oils, which is why many people used them over castor oils before “2 stroke oil” was a thing.

|

12/27/2019 1:53 PM

MotoTribology wrote:

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?


Matt,

Switch to a 2 stroke oil. Any bottom of the barrel 2 stroke oil whatsoever will be better than a 10W-40 4-stroke oil used a premix.

The lubrication is different; there are different requirements for a 2-stroke oil that a 4-stroke oil just won't have because:
a) it would be severely detrimental to 4-stroke engine's lubrication and
b) there is absolutely no need for a 4-stroke oil to have those attributes


For all those reminiscing, yes, there was a time when a 30wt engine oil could be used for premix. That time is what we in the industry call "the past". We are no longer in that time; just as we are no longer in a time where we load coal into our locomotives and don't lace our medicines with cocaine for its "healing properties".


As others have mentioned, either you or the salesperson were confused about the recommendation. The 10W-40 is for the transmission, not for premixing into the fuel. Switch to a 2-stroke oil for the premix and do it at the right ratio and be on your way. You probably didn't do any permanent damage in 1 tank, and any sludge or deposits will likely sort themselves out over time with a decent oil in the mix.

We now lace our cocaine with medicines. Times have changed, indeed.

|

12/27/2019 6:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/27/2019 6:40 PM

There are YouTube clips of guys running motor oil in place of 2-stroke oil and no damage to the engine and it actually mixed really well with gas.

|

12/27/2019 6:46 PM

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

This, above, is my new favorite all time vital MX comment! Congrats. That was beautiful.

|

12/27/2019 6:49 PM

forgive me,i did not read all comments.
before premix, old timers used motor oil as such.
fwiw, on break in, motor oil is not a bad thing. it actually helps seat rings to wall. then pre mix there after.hope this helps.

|

12/27/2019 6:49 PM

Good thing he didn’t tell you to use sugar.

|

12/27/2019 6:58 PM

As I said, first time owning a 2 stroke.I’m sure after I bought the bike it had proper pre mix. So far it’s had 2 full tanks ran through the bike and only when I filled the bike up for the first time myself, I had used the 10w40. Rode it all day until empty.
I’m just wondering if there would be any significant damage done to the bike.
I have proper 2 stroke oil now and of course I’ll be using that.
I have no idea why the guy in the shop told me to use the oil he sold me and no I did not get confused with the gear box oil as we were talking about mixing ratios at the time.

|

12/27/2019 7:04 PM

Matt_Becket wrote:

As I said, first time owning a 2 stroke.I’m sure after I bought the bike it had proper pre mix. So far it’s had 2 full tanks ran through the bike and only when I filled the bike up for the first time myself, I had used the 10w40. Rode it all day until empty.
I’m just wondering if there would be any significant damage done to the bike.
I have proper 2 stroke oil now and of course I’ll be using that.
I have no idea why the guy in the shop told me to use the oil he sold me and no I did not get confused with the gear box oil as we were talking about mixing ratios at the time.

you should be fine. conventional oil is a routine for 2 stroke break in with many builders. it helps seat the rings to wall .just pre mix and enjoy.

|

12/27/2019 7:32 PM
Edited Date/Time: 12/27/2019 7:54 PM

My dad still has a can of Castrol GP 50 in the garage that he ran 20:1 in his '69 CZ. You had to run a super oil-rich mixture like that because the main bearings ran basically dry because on the off side it had a double-row ball bearing and on the drive side it had two single-row bearings inboard from the seal. The only other option for those motors was Castrol bean oil which burned too dirty.

Obviously this has nothing to do with this thread other than the fact that some true old-timer will probably remember doing this.

When asked if he would run a similar mix in a modern 2T motor, he just laughed. Given the availability of modern 2T oils and modern engine designs that breathe crankcase compression into the transfer ports, you'd have to have your head examined to run 4T oil IMO....

|