100LL avgas in 450

Related:
Create New Tag

4/12/2018 6:13 AM

I have a 15 kx450F that is still runnng the stock compression ratio. I have run vp T4 in the past but the price and availbilty in NJ has turned me back to running 93 pump gas. I have a small regional airport 10 mins from me that sells 100LL avgas for $4 a gallon. Does anyone has some experience running avgas? I am mainly looking into this to find a cleaner burning fuel, IMO the gas coming from the pumps these days is complete garbage.

|

I don't crash, I just run out of talent

4/12/2018 6:21 AM

No experience with avgas, just a suggestion for another alternative.

If you have a road racing track near you, look around for a speedway gas station that sells cam2. Its sunoco 110 race gas. Its $7/gal here and works great in my kx450.

|

4/12/2018 6:23 AM

Used to run it in 2 strokes all the time, no problem. Just recently switched over in my 2014 yz250f, so far it seems to be working well. Performance wise I don’t see any real noticeable difference from the Sunoco 110 I was running. I’m only about 4 hours into it since switching, but I haven’t noticed any Ill effects so far.

|

RPM Performance
CT
783

4/12/2018 6:43 AM

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

4/12/2018 6:43 AM

kb228 wrote:

No experience with avgas, just a suggestion for another alternative.

If you have a road racing track near you, look around ...more

I had two Sunoco station that were literally on my way to track that used to have 100, and 110 on pump. Then the drag strip across from the track shut down and they got rid of it.

|

I don't crash, I just run out of talent

4/12/2018 6:44 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

Its consistent and its not dirty like pump gas.

|

4/12/2018 6:46 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

Well its not a necessity. However i've worked in engine building for awhile and you can really tell a differnce betweent he intrenals of an motor that only ran ethanol filled pump gas, as compared to a ethanol free or leaded fuel. Pull apart the two different motors at 100 hours and the difference is clear.

|

I don't crash, I just run out of talent

4/12/2018 6:53 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

NJKawi913 wrote:

Well its not a necessity. However i've worked in engine building for awhile and you can really tell a differnce betweent he ...more

Not saying you’re wrong but I put about 150 hours on my 450 with just regular wawa gas and never touched the motor. She felt fine to me smile

|

4/12/2018 7:04 AM

Because California gas is shit with winter and summer blends, ethanol and clean air additives. I've run Avgas in my FC450, 05CR250 and YZ465. Avgas is $4.25 near me. Anything in a can is at least $14 a gallon.

|

The older I get, the faster I was.

4/12/2018 7:06 AM

TheOriginalPancakee wrote:

Not saying you’re wrong but I put about 150 hours on my 450 with just regular wawa gas and never touched the motor. She felt ...more

I may have overstated that bit. The differences aren't catosprohpic and something that your going to significantly notice riding it. I'm speaking more on the amount of carbon build up on the valves, piston, and cylinder walls.

These things aren't as evident in small engines like we use in motocross. However in my other hobby drag racing, ive see plenty of motors wear out or lose power based on fuel.

|

I don't crash, I just run out of talent

4/12/2018 7:16 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

NJKawi913 wrote:

Well its not a necessity. However i've worked in engine building for awhile and you can really tell a differnce betweent he ...more

If I'm pulling apart a motor then its because I'm rebuilding it, therefore don't care if its a bit dirtier then a different motor that is cleaner. As long as they both made it approximately the same amount of time before needing rebuild, who cares how much better one looks then the other.

I want the most bang for my buck, paying almost double for fuel that gives no performance gains (ik some will argue there is gain but to that I say prove it. Unless OEM calls out for it, stock motor does not need higher octane and it can actually rob power due to insufficient burn. My kawi 09-11 manual does not call out octane level and therefore is designed for standard octane fuel) and doesn't increase reliability (again can be argued, but if engine on pump gas still exceeds what the OEM service intervals calls out are then it should be changed regardless) just doesn't make sense to me.

Just my opinion of course

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

4/12/2018 7:29 AM

billyp330 wrote:

If I'm pulling apart a motor then its because I'm rebuilding it, therefore don't care if its a bit dirtier then a different ...more

Those are all very valid points, that i agree with. They are the same reasons I switched back to pump gas when i got back to riding stock bikes. What are paying for pump gas where your at? I am at $3 a gallons for 93.

|

I don't crash, I just run out of talent

4/12/2018 7:32 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

NJKawi913 wrote:

Well its not a necessity. However i've worked in engine building for awhile and you can really tell a differnce betweent he ...more

billyp330 wrote:

If I'm pulling apart a motor then its because I'm rebuilding it, therefore don't care if its a bit dirtier then a different ...more

I'm with you on this.

|

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

4/12/2018 7:58 AM

NJKawi913 wrote:

Those are all very valid points, that i agree with. They are the same reasons I switched back to pump gas when i got back to ...more

Just under $3 for 93 typically. Looking at your OP I guess $4 a gallon isn't much more so saying double the price is exaggerated, but I was mostly referring to those die hard VP guys, which pay closer to 3-4 times the money per gallon.

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

4/12/2018 8:23 AM

A lot of octane is not required, but quality of gas is very important. My KTM manual recommends 95 octane fuel and warns against a lower quality gas. Poor quality fuel can cause fuel pump problems and clog injectors. Run the best you can afford, but you don't need $15 per gallon gas in most cases.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!

4/12/2018 8:40 AM

Question for those in the know, is there an effect on the injection system to using leaded fuels?

|

4/12/2018 8:41 AM

I run avgas 50/50 with 91 octane pump in my 2015 kx450 with high compression piston and stage 2 hotcams cams and use the lean coupler. I can feel the power decrease running 100% avgas, but it's simply because I can't tune for it. Avgas will run richer than pump gas on the same jetting/fuel map.

For a stock compression motor, you shouldn't need to run it. Sure, avgas is a lot more consistent than pump gas and is a relatively cheap race gas. However, you'll lose power vs using 91 or 93 pump gas. If your stock bike is pinging using pump gas, go ahead and put a splash of avgas in it to mitigate that.

|

4/12/2018 9:38 AM

Sheriff245 wrote:

Question for those in the know, is there an effect on the injection system to using leaded fuels?

Cam2 is leaded. Been running it in my kx450 for 3 years and havent had any issues whatsoever.

|

4/12/2018 9:39 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

I have never understood anyone paying 8-10000 grand for a motorcycle and then dumping absolute garbage fuel in it with California required emission additives and ethanol in them... seriously???

|

Don’t piss off the old people - the older they get the less “life in prison” is a deterrent for them!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

4/12/2018 9:50 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

kb228 wrote:

Its consistent and its not dirty like pump gas.

As he said...

Also, I like the snappy throttle response & the hole-shots I’m getting. I don’t get popping or bogging and I don’t EVER have fuel pump issues. My valve-trains have lasted longer: that’s considering BOTH adjustments and parts durability.

I’ve been testing T4 w/ pump gas mixed at 2:1 (2 gal T4 to 1 gal pump 91).
Works really well and still getting excellent fuel system and engine durability.
Note: I add pump fuel through a fuel filter/fuel sock to keep any unknown crap outta my bike!

|

Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

4/12/2018 10:17 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

bvm111 wrote:

I have never understood anyone paying 8-10000 grand for a motorcycle and then dumping absolute garbage fuel in it with ...more

Please explain the "garbage" in California fuel that ruins your $8-10K bike.

Don't rant the additives names either, I'm looking for actual studies that show how those additives create extra wear and cause premature failure or at least significant performance loss in dirt bike specific testing.

Maybe California fuel is horrible compared to Ohio, no idea, but I doubt it and I have never had a single issue, nor heard of anyone else having one either with any bike ever due to "garbage" fuel. Not saying its impossible, but I'd bet highly unlikely.

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

4/12/2018 10:20 AM

billyp330 wrote:

I have never understood anyone that insists they need race gas for their bikes, especially stock or mostly stock bikes.

bvm111 wrote:

I have never understood anyone paying 8-10000 grand for a motorcycle and then dumping absolute garbage fuel in it with ...more

billyp330 wrote:

Please explain the "garbage" in California fuel that ruins your $8-10K bike.

Don't rant the additives names either, I'm ...more

I live in ohio and i can confidently say that pump gas causes my kx450 to not even run. Fuel filter or not, crap gets into something and blocks the injector and messes it up. If its not cam2 or vp it wont run. Period.

|

4/12/2018 10:24 AM

We tested the avgas in our two strokes after someone recommended it to us and it was considerably cheaper than the VP we usually run. Blew up two top ends while running it. Never blew a top end before since we keep the bikes in prestige shape and do the routine maintenance and never blew a top end after switching back to regular race gas.

We just mixed it the same as we were with the race gas but just seemed like too much of a coincidence to blow one relatively new top and and then a fresh top end consecutively while trying the avgas.

|

4/12/2018 10:26 AM

kb228 wrote:

I live in ohio and i can confidently say that pump gas causes my kx450 to not even run. Fuel filter or not, crap gets into ...more

So you put pump gas in it and it wont start at all or does it run, but not run correctly?

Any mods to your bike? Such as high compression piston?

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000

4/12/2018 10:28 AM

billyp330 wrote:

Please explain the "garbage" in California fuel that ruins your $8-10K bike.

Don't rant the additives names either, I'm ...more

kb228 wrote:

I live in ohio and i can confidently say that pump gas causes my kx450 to not even run. Fuel filter or not, crap gets into ...more

billyp330 wrote:

So you put pump gas in it and it wont start at all or does it run, but not run correctly?

Any mods to your bike? Such as high ...more

It will start run fine and then never restart. Did this when it was stock and now has a high comp piston and stage 1 hot cams and havent tried pump gas since before the motor mods

|

4/12/2018 10:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/12/2018 10:31 AM

mx317 wrote:

A lot of octane is not required, but quality of gas is very important. My KTM manual recommends 95 octane fuel and warns ...more

Our gasoline is calculated differently here in the states. 95 RON is the same as 91 PON in the U.S.A. Pumps usually say R+M/2.

|

4/12/2018 10:32 AM

aeffertz wrote:

We tested the avgas in our two strokes after someone recommended it to us and it was considerably cheaper than the VP we ...more

Makes no sense because whats in av gas is the same compounds in most fuels. Fuel isnt some magical thing.
Its just a blend of the same things in all fuels in different amounts.

I knew a guy who blew up a bike on Av Gas,. Seized in about 3 minutes. Av Gas is Blue. His Oil was blue,. Guess what?

That blue gas had no oil. Pump gas is yellowish to clear.

|

4/12/2018 10:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/12/2018 11:27 AM

aeffertz wrote:

We tested the avgas in our two strokes after someone recommended it to us and it was considerably cheaper than the VP we ...more

Asimo wrote:

Makes no sense because whats in av gas is the same compounds in most fuels. Fuel isnt some magical thing.
Its just a blend of ...more

Sounds possible but we run Klotz so it's easy to tell what gas is mixed and isn't. This was probably 10 years ago so my memory is admittedly a bit shoddy now so I dont remember the exact details.

Just remember throwing out the remaining AV gas that we had because it just didn't seem worth the fprice savings in fuel going with gas that's not intended for motorcycles.

|

4/12/2018 10:38 AM

aeffertz wrote:

We tested the avgas in our two strokes after someone recommended it to us and it was considerably cheaper than the VP we ...more

Asimo wrote:

Makes no sense because whats in av gas is the same compounds in most fuels. Fuel isnt some magical thing.
Its just a blend of ...more

Anti-Freezing and anti-water agents...etc. are in Av-Gas.

Also, the mix/ratios of all those chemicals actually matters.

California pump fuel is ALL 10% (on avg) Ethanol ...or worse. There are Non-Ethanol fuels including some pump “93” rated fuels that are pretty good.

Downs Energy in Corona has VP 110 leaded in a pump for a pretty good price ($7-8 I think)

|

Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

4/12/2018 10:42 AM

kb228 wrote:

I live in ohio and i can confidently say that pump gas causes my kx450 to not even run. Fuel filter or not, crap gets into ...more

billyp330 wrote:

So you put pump gas in it and it wont start at all or does it run, but not run correctly?

Any mods to your bike? Such as high ...more

kb228 wrote:

It will start run fine and then never restart. Did this when it was stock and now has a high comp piston and stage 1 hot cams ...more

Something was definitely wrong with your bike then, my guess is that's why you now have motor mods.

|

2018 crf450r
2015 Ninja 1000