Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but paid users have great benefits. Paid member benefits:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2024 SX, MX, and SMX series (regularly $30).
But I heard the drunk guy on Pulp who works for Atlas said it's ironclad.
I actually listened to the interview with a Leatt rep on Pulpmx (might even have been Mr. Leatt himself or an associate not sure anymore) which was quite a few years ago now and I really liked his explanation on the how the brace is supposed to work. Basically providing an additional load path other than your spine for the shock to be absorbed. I even bought one of the earlier leatt braces but I felt really weird when wearing it, movement just felt so restricted and I was worried about not being able to tuck/roll after a crash that I stopped wearing it after only a few rides.
The Shop
First off, no way do I ever believe "neck brace saved my life" stories. The truth is, you don't know. And your surgeon doesn't know. I saw EMS guys at work, they have no clue about MX safety equipment. Maybe with the exception of those working at the Alpinestars medical crew and similar. Having followed special courses, I could do a better job at pulling off the helmet than them, since they usually don't even know the cheek pads are removable. So whatever they claim about MX related crashes is no more than words, most likely just to cheer up the victim a little bit.
Further, I'm all for the scientific method and happy that Leatt, Atlas and others are building dummies and computer models. The problem is, the tests currently employed do not treat the body as a whole. For example Atlas claims they measure the forces at the neck and head. Fine, but what about the rest of the spine, what about shoulder blades, chin, clavicles etc. Those areas are ignored. I sent an inquiry to Atlas a few weeks ago with related questions, but they've remained unanswered to date.
Leatt claims by means of a computer model that the strut will never damage the spine. Anecdotal evidence says otherwise though. And the fact they've changed their product means they've acknoledged the flaw silently. Conclusion: we as end users cannot rely on their computer models or tests. They are flawed and limited from the very beginning.
Now, a couple of hours ago I wathched a video where a Leatt rep let some very important information out. He claimed that if you wear their brace with a helmet of a different brand, then it will "make trouble" and that the brace could work as a fulcrum point. That's very good they sometimes let their employees talk unscripted. But I have two questions: why do we not see appropriate warnings on the brace itself and second, what else do they know about their brace that we don't know?
Comparison with seat belts is wrong. Stretching one's shoulder is not a life-changing experience. The spine and other organs in the vicinity of the neck brace is however too sensitive a subject to become a living dummy for those manufacturers. We're just statistics for them, but everyone of us has a single life. And if a piece of equipment can cause more harm and even damage the spine while otherwise you would just walk away, then I don't need such equipment, and that's what they fail to prove to us, that the brace is otherwise safe. And the relation with an airbag is a complete nonsense. The airbag won't even go off up to a certain impact force, while the brace is always there, for better or for worse.
So by the end of the day to confirm the theory with practice I needed to buy a brace (and/or braces) and analyse whether it really can cause harm. I've discarded Leatt because of the rigid construction and because it's a dodgy company overall with low-quality products. There are people who claim otherwise, but I stay true to my own experience. In Europe there is also Ortema brace, but I couldn't find their testing procedure anywhere at all, so their brace was discarded automatically. Alpinestars has a strut on the spine, so that one was also discarded. So the only brace it made sense to try out was Atlas Air neck brace.
Once I got it on, I immediately realized how flawed its design was. When I tucked my chin (with a full-face helmet on!), my lower teeth came directly in contact with the front plate of the brace. Are you kidding me? That's a possibility to split your chin and loose you teeth, right there, before it does anything good at all! You may not even touch the ground once for that to happen. And then I read about all that team of specialists working on the brace, biomechanics and all those guys, and I just cannot comprehend, how could they miss it? And of course they didn't. That's why that part is slightly softer, but no way will it change anything. And then I google "neck brace mx teeth" and I find anecdotal evidence of the Atlas brace really being able to knock teeth out. At that very point the brace went back to its box and was sent out the following day!
After analyzing all the available data and having hands-on experience with what is arguebly the best neck brace out there, the only thing I'm left with is an Acerbis soft neck roll for 36 euros. This thing is amazing. It protects my clavicles from the edges of the helmet, it protects my neck from hyperflexion backwards and sideways (forward is not a problem), it let's me tuck my chin without the risk to knock the teeth out, it won't damage my T-spine because it's not supported by the spine, it works like suspension by being soft and not stopping the helmet abruptly, it won't work as a fulcrum point. Lovely!
So there you have it. Being ready to spend big bucks on neck protection I went with the cheapest option available, as it's the most bulletproof and safest option out there as of today. Please, note, it's stupid to claim we don't need neck protection. If Dungey broke his neck, then it can happen to anyone anytime. Our sport actually craves neck protection and that's why the Leatt neck brace was initially so widely accepted. But the devices we currently have on the market sold as neck braces for motocross are all flawed and dangerous in certain situations. This should change! And until then I'll keep wearing my Acerbis soft neck roll.
Awhile back I was at the light and a Mazda 3 pulled up, bass a thumping, lowered, big exhaust can, the driver had his hair all colors and in a Rasta looking way, metal stuff in his face etc AND he was wearing many bandannas on his head and also around his neck was a Leatt neck brace and he had many bandannas wrapped around it! Maybe the fashion end of this isn’t explored as much as it could be.
Oh and his girlfriends costume was really freaky.
Anyway. Whatever.
Pit Row
Multiple manufactures have mentioned up to 45% reduction in forces (lab), and real world data computes numbers as high as 89% less head/neck injuries among neck brace wearers. 45% less collarbone injuries as well.
The reason we (or any safety company) cannot claim anything is because we would be sued 10 times a day and spend all our time and money on lawsuits arguing about claims. Read warning labels of helmets, or any safety gear.. they are all similar.
Important: These warning labels are a reflection of the absolute worst case scenario so the customer assumes the risks of what they are doing - they are not a measure of the safety of any device they are attached to.
Proof they do what each manufacture intends them to do:
Lab testing (by 3+ manufacturers over 10-15 years)
Backed by doctors, biomedical engineers, etc all over the world
Real world data over 10 years/nearly 10,000 accidents
(Note that all of these create a pattern, tell the same story, all backing each other up)
Proof they don't work:
One time my friend had a bad crash and hurt himself.
I didn't feel good with it on.
My friend said they don't work, so they for sure don't work.
The same science you guys all ask for is readily available (and being added to constantly) for one side of the argument, but not the other. If these products were as deadly and terrible as you suggest, the data would tell a very different story.
Further, the reduction in injuries to the head/neck/collarbone you mention are meaningless as these numbers were gathered in the absence of any control group.
You may be able to fool people who have never designed, created, or carried out an experiment, but to those of us who have your attempts at validating your product are pitiful.
This really is not advanced stuff, any undergrad who paid attention in statistics/research methods could point out the same thing.
The problem is you are comparing this to something like a pharma drug. We can't put a "fake/sugar pill" neck brace on people, tell them to land head first on a jump and somehow come out the other end with any meaningful data. That is reckless, ridiculous and I would assume illegal. And the dummy's we use don't know if they are wearing a fake neck brace or a real one, they aren't biased - just plastic, rubber, metal, sensors, and electronics.
We can lab test, with and without a brace, and document the differences. That is how you validate a safety product in a lab. The "control" for our experiments is the "no neck brace" test, as it reflects the baseline. From there, we test with a brace in all the same scenarios - if the effects are positive, the product is doing what we intended. It's very black and white. You cannot have a placebo effect for a neck brace - when you hit the ground, it hurts no matter what you do.
Once released to the real world, we can also gather data over time. If you combine enough together, an average outcome is produced - hence why this real world data is so important. It rules out the edge cases. Also, this is real world injuries, not an experiment in a lab. It was not fabricated, simply recorded over time. This doesn't make it meaningless, these are real people who are are crashing. In fact, the absence of control in this case is what makes it so valuable.
If you have a more effective method in mind, please get in touch with us privately and we can work together to improve the current methods of evaluating safety equipment.
The numbers presented reflect everything they saw relating to neck injuries in the past 10 years. The numbers are from a generated report from their data entry system.
That is as real as it gets...
You are welcome to reach out to the people who recorded the data, I am sure they are very happy to answer your questions.
https://www.actionsportsems.com
I was curious if there has been a case of someone suffering a significant spinal injury while wearing a neck brace of any type. Pardon me if this has been discussed, in the previous 8 pages. Cheers.
Yes, there have been.
One thing to remember is that neck braces are only designed with the intention of aiding your Cervical spine (basically, just your neck). It is still very possible to damage other areas of the spine (Thoracic, Lumber, etc) as well as your Cervical spine while wearing a brace - they are not perfect. These injuries can also lead to paralysis or sometimes death.
However, you are far more likely to experience severe injuries with Cervical spine injuries, vs other areas of the spine. Many people damage their Thoracic spine (also the most common spinal injury) and live to walk/ride another day.
People will continue to get knocked out and/or die while wearing helmets. People will continue to suffer severe injuries with neck braces on (and off) - but that does not mean either product isn't effective, or that we should dismiss them due to edge cases.
Dangerous sport. We are just trying to do our part to make it a little safer.
Now, a couple of hours ago I wathched a video where a Leatt rep let some very important information out. He claimed that if you wear their brace with a helmet of a different brand, then it will "make trouble" and that the brace could work as a fulcrum point.
And I find it quite concerning. I know this is years old but did you by chance save the video or still remember it? I've been looking at getting a Leatt brace but that piece of information is enough to potentially put me off it (if true) since the Leatt helmet doesn't come close to fitting my head.
Post a reply to: 10 Year Neck Brace Study Results