'08 JS vs '06-'07 RC vs '13 RV vs '16 KROC vs '15 ET

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7/5/2017 11:33 AM

It's a slow day at the office after a holiday weekend and I need some bench racing to pass the time. I watched a segment on NFL Network talking about players you would rather have for 1 play, 1 game, 1 season, 1 career, etc. and I thought it would make for an interesting moto topic.

We are talking outdoors only here: Who would you take for 1 lap, 1 moto, 1 overall, and 1 season? I would ask who would you take for 1 career but we all know the answer to that so I'm not wasting my time.

Here is my list:

1 lap - 2008 Stewart
1 moto - 2006 RC (with '08 Stewart and '15 Tomac as very close 2nds)
1 overall - 2006 RC
1 season - 2006 RC

This might seem like an insult to RV but I don't think he can quite match the all-out pace of Stewart and I think Ricky would beat him more times than not in a moto and overall.

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7/5/2017 11:36 AM

What, no I hadn't heard of that

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7/5/2017 11:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/5/2017 11:50 AM

RV would win every category. There I said it.

RV from '07 may be even better than '13.

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7/5/2017 12:01 PM

Juice_Mann wrote:

RV would win every category. There I said it.

RV from '07 may be even better than '13.

I think RV is probably the 2nd best rider ever, so I mean no disrespect to the guy because he was a BAD dude. But he wouldn't want to face a prime Carmichael. In 2011 Reed was giving him all he wanted before Chad decided to launch himself to the moon at Millville. RC had a perfect season against a prime Reed and I think the only moto Reed ever beat him was in 05 when RC crashed in moto 1 at Southwick.

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7/5/2017 12:21 PM

Juice_Mann wrote:

RV would win every category. There I said it.

RV from '07 may be even better than '13.

NateDawg wrote:

I think RV is probably the 2nd best rider ever, so I mean no disrespect to the guy because he was a BAD dude. But he wouldn't want to face a prime Carmichael. In 2011 Reed was giving him all he wanted before Chad decided to launch himself to the moon at Millville. RC had a perfect season against a prime Reed and I think the only moto Reed ever beat him was in 05 when RC crashed in moto 1 at Southwick.

Yeah but the '11 RV was not the same guy as '13. After Reed crashed out Dungey was also giving him all he could handle. Then in 2013 Dungey wasn't close enough to sniff a fart from RV all season. But like I said in my first post in '07 he was probably even better. Go back and watch the 2007 MXDN. That was epic!!

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7/5/2017 12:28 PM

I take RC any time. He had a desire to win unlike anyone else. Regardless of who you put him up against he would've found a way.

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7/5/2017 12:43 PM

RC wouldn't have settled. He would have pushed them all to the breaking point harder and faster than Dungey ever thought about doing. Other than that, the field would have settled out like it currently does, only thing we are left to wonder is who would be 30 seconds back in 3rd place , 53 seconds back in 4th and who in 5th would be getting lapped?

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7/5/2017 12:48 PM

RC,not even close, 1 Moto, 1 season, 1 title etc.

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7/5/2017 12:48 PM

I'm certain there will be a lot of people giving me shit so I decided to do a little research to back my argument. RV was seconds faster per lap than everyone at the 2007 MXDN and he was riding a 250! Link below.

http://racerxonline.com/2007/09/25/sign-of-the-lap-times-red-bull-motocross-of-nations

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7/5/2017 1:05 PM

Juice_Mann wrote:

I'm certain there will be a lot of people giving me shit so I decided to do a little research to back my argument. RV was seconds faster per lap than everyone at the 2007 MXDN and he was riding a 250! Link below.

http://racerxonline.com/2007/09/25/sign-of-the-lap-times-red-bull-motocross-of-nations

1. Ricky was sick that weekend
2. He was already partially retired and not racing every weekend and
3. He was riding through traffic on a bent bike

It's pretty ridiculous that people look at the 2007 MXoN and say that it's proof RV would beat Carmichael. It is the same thing people used to say when James would run similar or even better lap times than Ricky on a 125 when RC was on a 250. We all saw what happened when Stewart jumped up to the big bikes, RC kicked his ass.

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7/5/2017 1:09 PM

Juice_Mann wrote:

I'm certain there will be a lot of people giving me shit so I decided to do a little research to back my argument. RV was seconds faster per lap than everyone at the 2007 MXDN and he was riding a 250! Link below.

http://racerxonline.com/2007/09/25/sign-of-the-lap-times-red-bull-motocross-of-nations

That was just that one race though.
He was great in 2007 but not better than in 2013.

Had he ridden the whole nationals season like he did at the mxdn, he would have wiped the floor with Ben Townley. But he didn't

Still, he was ridiculous that day

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7/5/2017 1:23 PM

Juice_Mann wrote:

I'm certain there will be a lot of people giving me shit so I decided to do a little research to back my argument. RV was seconds faster per lap than everyone at the 2007 MXDN and he was riding a 250! Link below.

http://racerxonline.com/2007/09/25/sign-of-the-lap-times-red-bull-motocross-of-nations

NateDawg wrote:

1. Ricky was sick that weekend
2. He was already partially retired and not racing every weekend and
3. He was riding through traffic on a bent bike

It's pretty ridiculous that people look at the 2007 MXoN and say that it's proof RV would beat Carmichael. It is the same thing people used to say when James would run similar or even better lap times than Ricky on a 125 when RC was on a 250. We all saw what happened when Stewart jumped up to the big bikes, RC kicked his ass.

Stewart beat himself. He was never as mentally focused or determined as RV or RC. However, I would argue that Stewart was easily the most talented of the the three.

Anyway I know I'm in the minority here so I will shut up lol.

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7/5/2017 1:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/5/2017 1:50 PM

You could argue all you want but fact is when JS had his best days, nobody, and i mean nobody could even touch him, this guy wasnt called fastest man on two wheels for no reason, but as we have all seen, that often meant he rode past physics and crashed.

And although i wasnt RV's biggest fan at the time he was racing, you have to admit his package was impossible to beat, he was blazing fast and when needed to he rode over the limit but always under control.

Tomac reminds me a little bit of JS, when he's on it, he's on different level, attacking everything so hard, and that's why i'm fan of him and JS.

The thing with comparing JS,RV,KR etc with the older man like RC, MC etc is that the competition was way easier back then, the sport has gone so much more professional and i truly think if you put on prime MC to todays competition, he would not even get a podium

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7/5/2017 1:59 PM

Juice_Mann wrote:

I'm certain there will be a lot of people giving me shit so I decided to do a little research to back my argument. RV was seconds faster per lap than everyone at the 2007 MXDN and he was riding a 250! Link below.

http://racerxonline.com/2007/09/25/sign-of-the-lap-times-red-bull-motocross-of-nations

NateDawg wrote:

1. Ricky was sick that weekend
2. He was already partially retired and not racing every weekend and
3. He was riding through traffic on a bent bike

It's pretty ridiculous that people look at the 2007 MXoN and say that it's proof RV would beat Carmichael. It is the same thing people used to say when James would run similar or even better lap times than Ricky on a 125 when RC was on a 250. We all saw what happened when Stewart jumped up to the big bikes, RC kicked his ass.

100% this ^^^

I'm tired of people bringing up the 07 MXoN for proof RV was better than RC.

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7/5/2017 2:01 PM

Raikzz wrote:

You could argue all you want but fact is when JS had his best days, nobody, and i mean nobody could even touch him, this guy wasnt called fastest man on two wheels for no reason, but as we have all seen, that often meant he rode past physics and crashed.

And although i wasnt RV's biggest fan at the time he was racing, you have to admit his package was impossible to beat, he was blazing fast and when needed to he rode over the limit but always under control.

Tomac reminds me a little bit of JS, when he's on it, he's on different level, attacking everything so hard, and that's why i'm fan of him and JS.

The thing with comparing JS,RV,KR etc with the older man like RC, MC etc is that the competition was way easier back then, the sport has gone so much more professional and i truly think if you put on prime MC to todays competition, he would not even get a podium

Nobody could touch JS on his best days? Really? Because I never once saw Stewart race away from RC on a motocross track. If he started to pull a gap, Ricky picked it right back up. Now on the contrary, I watched Carmichael race away from Stewart loads of times. It happened all the time in '06. Hell, go watch High Point from '07. Ricky was partially retired and still ran that dude down and beat him in moto 1 and then handed it to him in moto 2. Stewart was all-out faster than RC on a Supercross track, but he never once checked out on Ricky outdoors.

As for RV, I already mentioned how an aging Reed was able to give Villopoto fits at times outdoors. RC decimated a prime Chad Reed almost every single moto they raced each other. In Supercross RV could've given Carmichael a run for his money, but Ricky was the man outdoors. I do think Villopoto would beat McGrath indoors though. Outdoors, McGrath isn't even top 20 all time.

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7/5/2017 3:16 PM

Raikzz wrote:

You could argue all you want but fact is when JS had his best days, nobody, and i mean nobody could even touch him, this guy wasnt called fastest man on two wheels for no reason, but as we have all seen, that often meant he rode past physics and crashed.

And although i wasnt RV's biggest fan at the time he was racing, you have to admit his package was impossible to beat, he was blazing fast and when needed to he rode over the limit but always under control.

Tomac reminds me a little bit of JS, when he's on it, he's on different level, attacking everything so hard, and that's why i'm fan of him and JS.

The thing with comparing JS,RV,KR etc with the older man like RC, MC etc is that the competition was way easier back then, the sport has gone so much more professional and i truly think if you put on prime MC to todays competition, he would not even get a podium

NateDawg wrote:

Nobody could touch JS on his best days? Really? Because I never once saw Stewart race away from RC on a motocross track. If he started to pull a gap, Ricky picked it right back up. Now on the contrary, I watched Carmichael race away from Stewart loads of times. It happened all the time in '06. Hell, go watch High Point from '07. Ricky was partially retired and still ran that dude down and beat him in moto 1 and then handed it to him in moto 2. Stewart was all-out faster than RC on a Supercross track, but he never once checked out on Ricky outdoors.

As for RV, I already mentioned how an aging Reed was able to give Villopoto fits at times outdoors. RC decimated a prime Chad Reed almost every single moto they raced each other. In Supercross RV could've given Carmichael a run for his money, but Ricky was the man outdoors. I do think Villopoto would beat McGrath indoors though. Outdoors, McGrath isn't even top 20 all time.

THIS!!! RC was the man. "G.O.A.T." moniker for a reason.

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In an infinite universe, anything is possible!

7/5/2017 7:01 PM

RC. Nothing more to say.

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7/5/2017 8:23 PM

Villopoto is the best racer. Put him in his prime against anyone in anytime for a season he will be champ if he doesn't get hurt. And yes that includes carmichael.

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7/5/2017 8:30 PM

RD757 wrote:

Villopoto is the best racer. Put him in his prime against anyone in anytime for a season he will be champ if he doesn't get hurt. And yes that includes carmichael.

Oh how quickly people forget...

RC has as many perfect seasons as RV has 450 titles. Just think about that.

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7/5/2017 8:43 PM

RD757 wrote:

Villopoto is the best racer. Put him in his prime against anyone in anytime for a season he will be champ if he doesn't get hurt. And yes that includes carmichael.

No. And I've been a huge RV fan since he was on YZ80's. BUT he wouldn't beat Carmichael. Would he go as fast? Sure. But beat him in two 30+2 motos?? Not gonna happen.

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7/5/2017 11:11 PM

I'd say Ricky outdoors.... JS7 indoors..
Ricky just wore you down in motocross and seemed to have another gear.

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7/5/2017 11:28 PM

Stewart had the most talent, but RC had the most desire by far. That dude was 110% at all times. Like a pit bull trying to eat a steak!

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7/5/2017 11:34 PM

RD757 wrote:

Villopoto is the best racer. Put him in his prime against anyone in anytime for a season he will be champ if he doesn't get hurt. And yes that includes carmichael.

Not even fucking close bro. You must of been watching porn during the RC years. RC would of made a voodoo dall of RV and beat the shit out of it during the week! RC would of done whatever it took to win. I have never seen another rider since, with drive like that. 1 Moto shy if 3 perfect seasons!

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7/5/2017 11:34 PM

From July 29, 2001 to May 21, 2006, Carmichael lost 2 overalls in MX. Unfuckingreal. I feel like people just forget how amazing he was. 2015 Tomac for the first 5 motos was Carmichael every single moto for 5+ years. As I've stated previously, he dominated so much and so often that we became numb to it. Tomac's 2015 season stands out because he hadn't done it before and he hadn't done it since. Same with Villopoto 2013 and Roczen 2016. Those were both dominant seasons, and they weren't as dominant as Carmichael's 4th most dominant MX season. Take a gander at the MX vault over on RacerX and sort it by individual races and MX only. It's honestly not even a debate.

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7/5/2017 11:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/5/2017 11:49 PM

2013 RV would beat all of them for a season bar maybe RC, and it would be a fucking fist fight, 100%.

He was in manimal mode all that year, go back and watch. He fuckin went around the outside of James at Washagoul like he was standing still.

James in 06/07/08 is right there obviously, but if 06/07 proved anything, it was that under pressure from RC, James would crash, and do so regularly. If it's a 6 man race, so the pressure is always on, then this wouldn't help that at all.

The same for Eli in 15, speed, wow, but season, he didn't keep it going.

16 Ken, I think the others wear him out, and his key advantage, passing early, doesn't really matter if there is only 6 people in the race.

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Cheers, Crush
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7/5/2017 11:46 PM

TDeath21 wrote:

From July 29, 2001 to May 21, 2006, Carmichael lost 2 overalls in MX. Unfuckingreal. I feel like people just forget how amazing he was. 2015 Tomac for the first 5 motos was Carmichael every single moto for 5+ years. As I've stated previously, he dominated so much and so often that we became numb to it. Tomac's 2015 season stands out because he hadn't done it before and he hadn't done it since. Same with Villopoto 2013 and Roczen 2016. Those were both dominant seasons, and they weren't as dominant as Carmichael's 4th most dominant MX season. Take a gander at the MX vault over on RacerX and sort it by individual races and MX only. It's honestly not even a debate.

I've been a JS7 fan since day one. But RC is the best MX racer we have ever seen. He has owned everyone from JS7 to Everts. I don't even think the dude is human. Guy was from another planet on an MX track.

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7/5/2017 11:56 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/5/2017 11:57 PM

Crush wrote:

2013 RV would beat all of them for a season bar maybe RC, and it would be a fucking fist fight, 100%.

He was in manimal mode all that year, go back and watch. He fuckin went around the outside of James at Washagoul like he was standing still.

James in 06/07/08 is right there obviously, but if 06/07 proved anything, it was that under pressure from RC, James would crash, and do so regularly. If it's a 6 man race, so the pressure is always on, then this wouldn't help that at all.

The same for Eli in 15, speed, wow, but season, he didn't keep it going.

16 Ken, I think the others wear him out, and his key advantage, passing early, doesn't really matter if there is only 6 people in the race.

2007 RC/JS battles were unreal. Never seen RV have to fight for 2-30 minute motos like that! Maybe he could of hung with those two? I don't know

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7/6/2017 6:30 AM

The correct answer is always RC.

It would be interesting to see RC loss record. Over 10 outdoor seasons he won 102 out of 120 races or 240 motos. How many motos did he win and where did he finish when he didn't win. He never had a single DNS or DNF over 240 motos until his very last race at Glenn Helen when he broke his wrist. That is an impossible feat when you consider how hard he was going a lot of the time and some of the wipe outs he had.

RV and some of these guys might of got him at a few races but 9 out of 10 times RC would find whatever speed was needed to win. That's what he did.

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7/6/2017 7:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/6/2017 7:07 AM

I've been rewatching 2002 and 2004 seasons from youtube. 2005-2007 I know by heart now. All I have to say is that JS7 is my favourite rider, RV, Kenny etc. are great riders, but RC is no doubt the GOAT. I can't see anyone ever to beat his records. He was so good in every level. His aggressiveness was something to behold.

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7/6/2017 7:49 AM

Raikzz wrote:

You could argue all you want but fact is when JS had his best days, nobody, and i mean nobody could even touch him, this guy wasnt called fastest man on two wheels for no reason, but as we have all seen, that often meant he rode past physics and crashed.

And although i wasnt RV's biggest fan at the time he was racing, you have to admit his package was impossible to beat, he was blazing fast and when needed to he rode over the limit but always under control.

Tomac reminds me a little bit of JS, when he's on it, he's on different level, attacking everything so hard, and that's why i'm fan of him and JS.

The thing with comparing JS,RV,KR etc with the older man like RC, MC etc is that the competition was way easier back then, the sport has gone so much more professional and i truly think if you put on prime MC to todays competition, he would not even get a podium

NateDawg wrote:

Nobody could touch JS on his best days? Really? Because I never once saw Stewart race away from RC on a motocross track. If he started to pull a gap, Ricky picked it right back up. Now on the contrary, I watched Carmichael race away from Stewart loads of times. It happened all the time in '06. Hell, go watch High Point from '07. Ricky was partially retired and still ran that dude down and beat him in moto 1 and then handed it to him in moto 2. Stewart was all-out faster than RC on a Supercross track, but he never once checked out on Ricky outdoors.

As for RV, I already mentioned how an aging Reed was able to give Villopoto fits at times outdoors. RC decimated a prime Chad Reed almost every single moto they raced each other. In Supercross RV could've given Carmichael a run for his money, but Ricky was the man outdoors. I do think Villopoto would beat McGrath indoors though. Outdoors, McGrath isn't even top 20 all time.

honda341 wrote:

THIS!!! RC was the man. "G.O.A.T." moniker for a reason.

Yep, JS beat RC once right?

If JS had a lead every time, I think it's over, but RC and RV, and Kenny too, as racers, wow. They are "on" in the battle.

Eli and JS are maybe more similar.

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Cheers, Crush
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