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Having learned from the endless debate around whether 2-strokes should compete against 4-strokes (or at least which capacity of each is comparable) and the unintended consequences these rules have had on the bikes/models produced by OEMs, how should the regulations be written for the emergence of electric bikes? Thinking of this from the perspective of Pro MX/SX racing.
Should electric bikes not race against gas powered bikes in the same class at a pro level?
Or should the AMA/FIM work out an electric output capacity that allows electric bikes to fairly compete against gas powered bikes?
Bear in mind that it is a lot easier to audit the output of an electric bike through data logging software than it is to tear down a gas powered bike and measure the bore and stroke. Not fool proof (there will always be a handful of people that will find a way to cheat!), but certainly easier to monitor compliance with electric.
Should electric bikes not race against gas powered bikes in the same class at a pro level?
Or should the AMA/FIM work out an electric output capacity that allows electric bikes to fairly compete against gas powered bikes?
Bear in mind that it is a lot easier to audit the output of an electric bike through data logging software than it is to tear down a gas powered bike and measure the bore and stroke. Not fool proof (there will always be a handful of people that will find a way to cheat!), but certainly easier to monitor compliance with electric.
Poll
I can't Fing wait.
Interesting interview from Anton Wass addressing this current issue,
from Gypsy Tales podcast episode 338, May 16th 2023. time stamp 2:30.52 ( last 6 minutes, way after the Jiu-Jitsu talk
)
Transcripted to my best :
Anton ( 2:30:52) : " we wanna do some big things.. world records... ( laughter)... so we have some cool ideas there and.. ...
the next.. of course going racing .. it's gonna be fun as well ... see what happens when we line up on the gate..."
Jase ( 2:31:13) : " Yeah, where we at with that?" " it's been some challenges? "
Anton : " yeah, ( sigh ) there's been some real challenge... it's.. .. so national level it seems that we are basically able to race now globally , so, you know, amateur level, people.. it's seems that all countries have opened up now or are adjustable to open up so that customers can go and race locally and I think that can be very exciting and also very important.
But on the highest level, so.. you know, MXGP and AMA Supercross.... this kind of racing... we are not allowed to race ... Yet.. and ... my experience is that the big OEMs are pushing back, they don't want us to compete so... they're not letting us in...
you know... we even applied to part of like the ... European Motorcycle Association.. like any motorcycle manufacturer... haven't been let in, which is a bit strange.. and.. I think ..they.. you know... of course not everyone... but some of them are really like trying to block us ... from entering racing, which is... frustrating, it's kind of a (.????.) for doing something right, but I don't agree with their approach and you are afraid of competition, you know ... that... I don't think that's the way. if you have competition that might be better you accept it, you race it, lose, get better and win... you know ...that's the way to do it. In my mind at least. But yeah, we'll see. I think eventually it will open up. "
Jase ( 2:32:54) : "so what are the... I guess... what is some of the pushback or what would be the problem with letting stark race?"
Anton : " ( sigh ) There is no technical problem ...so we can adjust the bike.. we presented solutions that we.... of course we should not (???? ) at full power .... should race at same power of a 250 or 450...that's not a problem..."
Jase : " but how do you regulate that?"
Anton ( 2:33:23 ) : so we built ... in the functionalities, so that ... we are developing... we have not released yet.. a federation app, so that you as customer can block your bike for a certain amount of hours, so you can't go above a certain power.. and ...then your bike can be checked wirelessly by the federations .. they will have a specific app where they can see the history of your bike as well so if you.. you know...basically... the LED on the handlebar will be blinking in a specific light for a specific class ... it's very easy to see from a distance what is your limitation... and that's not possible to tamper with for any customer... but then the federations can also go in and see like... the actual data ... so if for some reason you would be able to tamper that which we don't understand how you could... they could still see the data ..so I think all of that is possible... it's more ..okay we need to change the rules to allow electric to compete against gas ... but ... everything else, the chassis dimensions are the same ... you know...we are ready to go out and play.. but.. I think it's more of... and if you have a world championship, how is it a world championship if the best ... the best are not allowed there? And maybe we are not the best..."
Jase " but you don't get a chance to prove it "
Anton : " Yes we don't get a chance to prove... that is not a world championship. Not to me at least. So I think it will change. So let's see one."
Jase: "So what is your idea of how much power you can have ? Let's say for 450 AMA Supercross like , how do you decide how much power you give the bike"
Anton ( 2:35:10) :" I think it should be same as what a factory bike has, so I mean.. stock power 450..."( interrupted )
Jase : " which means then that you gonna have to know what they produce..." ( interrupted )
Anton: "Yeah but I think the federation could like, okay.. take 3 factory bikes, put them on the dyno...see what power it makes, give us.. THAT is the limit.. you know, same of slightly below.. That's still fine.. and we are happy to go race on that."
Jase: " Yeah. Which seems fair... I just don't know what the other... I guess .. the criticism would be ..but... "
Anton: " So.. it's.. you know ... there is no logical reason. Besides it's different... if two strokes can race against four strokes.. like, do we need to create more noise? like, you know.. or.. fumes? ( laughter ) do you need gears on the bike? you know... there's no reason... I mean, you have ridden the bike hours, do you feel that you can race on it? "
Jase " I want to. " ( laughter ) " Please "
Anton " So I think it's only about updating the regulations and... I don't think uh... you know...
The big OEMs have a lot of saying in that ... but.. you know.. it shouldn't ... if it is racing on the highest level... I understand if you want a specific class where you can only race this specific bike... everyone should race the same bike.. okay that's something different but racing at the highest level you should have all ( ???? ) racing against each other. So I think we should be there as well."
( end of interview )-------
The hurdle is I do not see Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha or KTM letting the AMA or any third party obtaining data from their bikes because it could enable a competitor to have a glimpse into the data. ( torque/horsepower )The only way would be full transparency, all data open to all, but then no one would have an edge... not sure they would like that.
Plus what is to say one wouldn't tamper with a "special" power map for the dyno, like Volkswagen did for dieselgate ?
The Shop
They have the biggest test bed EVER! Put the bikes in the vet classes. See what they do, it’s AN OPEN CLASS. Do that for 2 years, look at the data and then make a ruling. Instead of guessing and getting it wrong.
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