Ron Lechiens 85 CR250 / 125 Magnesium Works Forks

Related:
Create New Tag

5/14/2019 5:40 PM

Wondering what you guys think about these.

Yes, these are really Ron Lechien's Works Factory Honda forks from his 1985 CR250 (they will fit a CR125 too). The tubes are 43 Millimeters. These were custom made from pure Magnesium for Ron by Factory Honda in 1985. Ron says these are the best forks he's ever had. They were recently freshened up by Pro Circuit and are ready to install. These are collectors items, but would be great forks to run on a post vintage rebuild/race bike. They were sprung for 170lbs. (Ron's weight in 1985) It would be very expensive to have these reproduced from pure 100% Magnesium today.


What do you guys think?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ron-Lechiens-Honda-Magnesium-Works-Forks-CR125-CR250/352664124865?hash=item521c6b7dc1:g:sK4AAOSwS~Bc2kOq

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/14/2019 6:34 PM

Who ever has a Dogger tribute Honda right now is feeling the heat👍

|

5/15/2019 6:58 AM

5K seems a little steep. Maybe I'm wrong..

|

5/15/2019 7:47 AM

CrGuy2T wrote:

5K seems a little steep. Maybe I'm wrong..

Yeah, but certain baseball cards are steep too ha ha! I think pure magnesium lowers would be really costly to have reproduced.

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/15/2019 8:03 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/15/2019 8:04 AM

Doubt anyone would want to reproduce them. And no magnesium is actually pretty cheap. With today’s technology those lowers could be spit out of a cnc within a few hours. Nice forks good luck with the sell.

|

5/15/2019 11:14 AM

CrGuy2T wrote:

5K seems a little steep. Maybe I'm wrong..

What do you think they are worth? I know the answer is "how much someone is willing to pay", but considering they are Lechien's magnesium works forks, I'm wondering what everyone thinks they are worth?

And how would these compare performance wise to modern forks assuming they will be mounted to an old bike?

|

5/15/2019 11:49 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/15/2019 12:09 PM

Diego kawi rider are these yours that you are selling on fleabay?
I saw in a event you promoted in a thread last year a guy with Schwartz on his jersey wearing #54 on a what appears to be a 86 KX 125. Ebay sellers name is jakschwart0.

Why not just say I'm selling these and I'm looking for opinions.

I have enjoyed checking out the ad and think they are an exceptionally cool piece of moto history.

|

5/15/2019 12:53 PM

TooOld4WFO wrote:

Diego kawi rider are these yours that you are selling on fleabay?
I saw in a event you promoted in a thread last year a guy with Schwartz on his jersey wearing #54 on a what appears to be a 86 KX 125. Ebay sellers name is jakschwart0.

Why not just say I'm selling these and I'm looking for opinions.

I have enjoyed checking out the ad and think they are an exceptionally cool piece of moto history.

Yes that's me. Aren't you quite the investigator ha ha ha.

I figured by the link people would know they were for sale, but I was interested to hear what people thought of them as well...what they think they are worth, would they like to have them, etc. If they want to buy them, they will track the auction, if not just the comments/indulging/whatever.

You should come to the So Cal Vintage Classic this year at Glen Helen on June 15th.

I will be the slow guy in the Intermediate class on the 87' CR125 and I will also have my 86' KX125 there too.
I am trying to decide which bike I will do better on.
I would be stoked to get a 2nd or 3rd this year, but I will likely just a participation trophy.

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/15/2019 1:23 PM

CrGuy2T wrote:

Doubt anyone would want to reproduce them. And no magnesium is actually pretty cheap. With today’s technology those lowers could be spit out of a cnc within a few hours. Nice forks good luck with the sell.

CrGuy2T:

Thanks for the comment.

Do you have a phone number for a CNC shop that would do these?

After reading your thread comment, I got curious, so I called four (4) shops in San Diego today.
Not one of the shops would do it because its a "one off" order, and would cost them too much, etc.
So I couldn't get a quote, but I am still trying.

One shop I talked to fabricates custom parts for off-road trophy race trucks here in East County San Diego (we have tons of baja racers). He said he would guess these would cost probably $1,500-$2,000/each leg (or more he said) to have made because of all the up front time, measuring it all out, creating a 3D file, etc.

Do have a good CNC contact to call that has maybe done these (or something like these) before?

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/15/2019 2:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/15/2019 2:14 PM

I only checked the background since I wondered were there other items of historical value for sale. Since this appeared to be the first item that ebay seller had offered I dug further due to all the positive feedback.

I'm sure there are several who would like to see images of the internals.

You would do yourself a better service by promoting these as you being the seller and demonstrating a willingness to answer questions.
That could very well build interest and get potentially more individuals checking it out.

Maybe I'm missing something but who cares if they could duplicate them. If these are indeed the doggers forks that alone adds values along with being works. The exteriors are only a small part of this as I see it.

|

5/15/2019 2:30 PM

CrGuy2T wrote:

Doubt anyone would want to reproduce them. And no magnesium is actually pretty cheap. With today’s technology those lowers could be spit out of a cnc within a few hours. Nice forks good luck with the sell.

Diego Kawi Rider wrote:

CrGuy2T:

Thanks for the comment.

Do you have a phone number for a CNC shop that would do these?

After reading your thread comment, I got curious, so I called four (4) shops in San Diego today.
Not one of the shops would do it because its a "one off" order, and would cost them too much, etc.
So I couldn't get a quote, but I am still trying.

One shop I talked to fabricates custom parts for off-road trophy race trucks here in East County San Diego (we have tons of baja racers). He said he would guess these would cost probably $1,500-$2,000/each leg (or more he said) to have made because of all the up front time, measuring it all out, creating a 3D file, etc.

Do have a good CNC contact to call that has maybe done these (or something like these) before?

At $2k per leg, he's underbidding that project... Each leg is indeed similar, but a unique part. You'd have to reverse engineer the legs to create CAD designs, then program each leg, design and create appropriate fixtures, source the materials (and account for minimum order quantity), set up the machines (note the plural), buy appropriate tooling, account for set-up parts, etc. I'd bet you'd have a hard finding someone to manufacture these for less than $6k total for a set, regardless of material. Now, if you wanted to make 20 sets, it might be a different story, but I bet the market for these might be pretty limited!

If you're really interested in machining a custom set of these, there are shops local to San Diego who can get it done. But if you're only after a price to prove the other guy wrong, then it's not worth it to have a shop waste a couple hours quoting this. And that's why you're getting shops who turn it down citing too much money for a one-off. They see the likelihood of this actually going through as near zero, so why waste time coming up with a quote.

|

Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Precision Engineered Motocross Components

5/15/2019 2:41 PM

TooOld4WFO wrote:

I only checked the background since I wondered were there other items of historical value for sale. Since this appeared to be the first item that ebay seller had offered I dug further due to all the positive feedback.

I'm sure there are several who would like to see images of the internals.

You would do yourself a better service by promoting these as you being the seller and demonstrating a willingness to answer questions.
That could very well build interest and get potentially more individuals checking it out.

Maybe I'm missing something but who cares if they could duplicate them. If these are indeed the doggers forks that alone adds values along with being works. The exteriors are only a small part of this as I see it.

Good comments TooOld, I agree. Yes, its my first time selling on EBay.
I have some extra parts and gear to sell (86' KX125e1 parts, 87' CR125 parts, 2009 KX250f, helmets, boots, etc), and I have been dragging my feet on getting an EBay set up. So selling these forks prompted me to get on it.
I can answer questions as best as I can; but I don't think opening them up is going to happen.

Yes, these are the Doggers forks.
He had them since Honda made them for him back in 1985.
I watched him pull them out of his cabinets in his garage.

I have also watched him roost with nuclear force in my face, but that's another thread discussion, ha ha ha.

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/15/2019 3:23 PM

CrGuy2T wrote:

Doubt anyone would want to reproduce them. And no magnesium is actually pretty cheap. With today’s technology those lowers could be spit out of a cnc within a few hours. Nice forks good luck with the sell.

Diego Kawi Rider wrote:

CrGuy2T:

Thanks for the comment.

Do you have a phone number for a CNC shop that would do these?

After reading your thread comment, I got curious, so I called four (4) shops in San Diego today.
Not one of the shops would do it because its a "one off" order, and would cost them too much, etc.
So I couldn't get a quote, but I am still trying.

One shop I talked to fabricates custom parts for off-road trophy race trucks here in East County San Diego (we have tons of baja racers). He said he would guess these would cost probably $1,500-$2,000/each leg (or more he said) to have made because of all the up front time, measuring it all out, creating a 3D file, etc.

Do have a good CNC contact to call that has maybe done these (or something like these) before?

Luxon MX wrote:

At $2k per leg, he's underbidding that project... Each leg is indeed similar, but a unique part. You'd have to reverse engineer the legs to create CAD designs, then program each leg, design and create appropriate fixtures, source the materials (and account for minimum order quantity), set up the machines (note the plural), buy appropriate tooling, account for set-up parts, etc. I'd bet you'd have a hard finding someone to manufacture these for less than $6k total for a set, regardless of material. Now, if you wanted to make 20 sets, it might be a different story, but I bet the market for these might be pretty limited!

If you're really interested in machining a custom set of these, there are shops local to San Diego who can get it done. But if you're only after a price to prove the other guy wrong, then it's not worth it to have a shop waste a couple hours quoting this. And that's why you're getting shops who turn it down citing too much money for a one-off. They see the likelihood of this actually going through as near zero, so why waste time coming up with a quote.

Luxon:

Yep.
I am just trying to get a verbal "ball park" estimate: Is it $1,000, $3,000, or $10,000? what are we talking here?
I was looking for them to say something in alignment with CRGuy2t's comment:
"No problem, Magnesium is pretty cheap and with todays technology our CNC Machine can spit them out in a few hours."
That hasn't been the message at all. Magnesium is cheap perhaps, but setting the whole thing up isn't easy or cheap.
I agree with your logic. Each fork leg is different.

As one woman said: "The only other way is to get the original molds from Honda". Yeah, good luck with that.

I wasn't trying to "prove anyone wrong", I was just surprised by the "cheap and easy" comment/philosophy.

In fact, these forks are rare, and would not be cheap and easy to reproduce.

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/15/2019 3:51 PM

Diego Kawi Rider wrote:

Luxon:

Yep.
I am just trying to get a verbal "ball park" estimate: Is it $1,000, $3,000, or $10,000? what are we talking here?
I was looking for them to say something in alignment with CRGuy2t's comment:
"No problem, Magnesium is pretty cheap and with todays technology our CNC Machine can spit them out in a few hours."
That hasn't been the message at all. Magnesium is cheap perhaps, but setting the whole thing up isn't easy or cheap.
I agree with your logic. Each fork leg is different.

As one woman said: "The only other way is to get the original molds from Honda". Yeah, good luck with that.

I wasn't trying to "prove anyone wrong", I was just surprised by the "cheap and easy" comment/philosophy.

In fact, these forks are rare, and would not be cheap and easy to reproduce.

Yep, certainly not cheap nor easy to reproduce. CRGuy2t isn't wrong in that the CNC machines can spit them out in a couple hours, but that's omitting all the up front work it takes to get there, which is 95% of the time and expense.

But as TooOld4WFO mentions, I think the real value in these forks is their history, not that they have magnesium lowers.

|

Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Precision Engineered Motocross Components

5/15/2019 4:17 PM

Luxon MX wrote:

At $2k per leg, he's underbidding that project... Each leg is indeed similar, but a unique part. You'd have to reverse engineer the legs to create CAD designs, then program each leg, design and create appropriate fixtures, source the materials (and account for minimum order quantity), set up the machines (note the plural), buy appropriate tooling, account for set-up parts, etc. I'd bet you'd have a hard finding someone to manufacture these for less than $6k total for a set, regardless of material. Now, if you wanted to make 20 sets, it might be a different story, but I bet the market for these might be pretty limited!

If you're really interested in machining a custom set of these, there are shops local to San Diego who can get it done. But if you're only after a price to prove the other guy wrong, then it's not worth it to have a shop waste a couple hours quoting this. And that's why you're getting shops who turn it down citing too much money for a one-off. They see the likelihood of this actually going through as near zero, so why waste time coming up with a quote.

Diego Kawi Rider wrote:

Luxon:

Yep.
I am just trying to get a verbal "ball park" estimate: Is it $1,000, $3,000, or $10,000? what are we talking here?
I was looking for them to say something in alignment with CRGuy2t's comment:
"No problem, Magnesium is pretty cheap and with todays technology our CNC Machine can spit them out in a few hours."
That hasn't been the message at all. Magnesium is cheap perhaps, but setting the whole thing up isn't easy or cheap.
I agree with your logic. Each fork leg is different.

As one woman said: "The only other way is to get the original molds from Honda". Yeah, good luck with that.

I wasn't trying to "prove anyone wrong", I was just surprised by the "cheap and easy" comment/philosophy.

In fact, these forks are rare, and would not be cheap and easy to reproduce.

Luxon MX wrote:

Yep, certainly not cheap nor easy to reproduce. CRGuy2t isn't wrong in that the CNC machines can spit them out in a couple hours, but that's omitting all the up front work it takes to get there, which is 95% of the time and expense.

But as TooOld4WFO mentions, I think the real value in these forks is their history, not that they have magnesium lowers.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with: "....I think the real value in these forks is their history, not that they have magnesium lowers."

I actually think the value of the forks is comprised of three parts:

1) They were Ron Lechien's (and they were so good he kept them);
2) They are Works Forks (all the unique internals, technology and testing that goes into them)
3) Magnesium Lowers are, in fact, expensive to have reproduced, so by definition add a lot of value to the forks.

Magnesium is lighter. and stronger then aluminum.

Just my two cents (or three).

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/15/2019 5:15 PM

Diego Kawi Rider wrote:

I don't necessarily agree 100% with: "....I think the real value in these forks is their history, not that they have magnesium lowers."

I actually think the value of the forks is comprised of three parts:

1) They were Ron Lechien's (and they were so good he kept them);
2) They are Works Forks (all the unique internals, technology and testing that goes into them)
3) Magnesium Lowers are, in fact, expensive to have reproduced, so by definition add a lot of value to the forks.

Magnesium is lighter. and stronger then aluminum.

Just my two cents (or three).

You may not agree with it, but you're also the one selling them... They're 34 year old forks. No one is putting them on a current bike to increase performance; they're either buying them for the history or because they happen to have a vintage bike and a bunch of money to throw around. But regardless, I guess you'll find out what they're worth when your auction ends!

FYI, magnesium is lighter, but not stronger than aluminum when comparing reasonable alloys of each. And if they're "pure" magnesium (e.g. unalloyed), they're much weaker than aluminum. These are likely machined from AZ31B alloy as that's one of the go-to structural extrusion alloys of magnesium. It's not likely these are a casting due to their one-off nature, but even if they were, the cast alloys are weaker than AZ31B, which is only about 70% the strength of 6061-T6 aluminum and 35% the strength of 7075-T6.

You don't see any current forks, works or not, made from magnesium. That's because, while it is 65% the weight of aluminum, it's only 35% the strength of a 7000 series alloy. Add in the corrosion and manufacturing issues, and aluminum is the vastly superior material for the job. Magnesium certainly has its place, but in the motocross world that's going to be limited to cast engine cases and covers for the most part.

|

Billy Wight
Luxon MX
@LuxonMX
https://luxonmx.com
Precision Engineered Motocross Components

5/15/2019 6:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/15/2019 6:39 PM

History is all they are worth. Same as all my late 90’s to mid 00 parts. It’s all worth what someone will pay. I personally say the bring about 2800-3500. The world will speak as they are on eBay. So you will soon know.

|

5/16/2019 1:37 AM

Luxon MX wrote:

You may not agree with it, but you're also the one selling them... They're 34 year old forks. No one is putting them on a current bike to increase performance; they're either buying them for the history or because they happen to have a vintage bike and a bunch of money to throw around. But regardless, I guess you'll find out what they're worth when your auction ends!

FYI, magnesium is lighter, but not stronger than aluminum when comparing reasonable alloys of each. And if they're "pure" magnesium (e.g. unalloyed), they're much weaker than aluminum. These are likely machined from AZ31B alloy as that's one of the go-to structural extrusion alloys of magnesium. It's not likely these are a casting due to their one-off nature, but even if they were, the cast alloys are weaker than AZ31B, which is only about 70% the strength of 6061-T6 aluminum and 35% the strength of 7075-T6.

You don't see any current forks, works or not, made from magnesium. That's because, while it is 65% the weight of aluminum, it's only 35% the strength of a 7000 series alloy. Add in the corrosion and manufacturing issues, and aluminum is the vastly superior material for the job. Magnesium certainly has its place, but in the motocross world that's going to be limited to cast engine cases and covers for the most part.

If I was the seller, I'd be backing off on the repeated "Pure Magnesium" bit. It's not a way to entice any but the absolute neophyte to engineering - and, they can press a few buttons on their computer to find out how bad a choice pure Mag ( or, basically any other metallic material in it's pure form) would be.

It's got to be a Magnesium Alloy , with some percentage of a variety of other material(s). to have any real structural strength. It's as simple as that.

I had some fun a week or two back, doing some Mag welding. Mixing gases, damned near 'burying' the electrode in the puddle, and collecting the minuscule bits of dust from the cleaning between runs. It entertained my Grand Nephews to see ( they were goggled up, and safely located away from things) said dust burn up in my kiln.

|

5/16/2019 7:11 AM

Diego Kawi Rider wrote:

I don't necessarily agree 100% with: "....I think the real value in these forks is their history, not that they have magnesium lowers."

I actually think the value of the forks is comprised of three parts:

1) They were Ron Lechien's (and they were so good he kept them);
2) They are Works Forks (all the unique internals, technology and testing that goes into them)
3) Magnesium Lowers are, in fact, expensive to have reproduced, so by definition add a lot of value to the forks.

Magnesium is lighter. and stronger then aluminum.

Just my two cents (or three).

Luxon MX wrote:

You may not agree with it, but you're also the one selling them... They're 34 year old forks. No one is putting them on a current bike to increase performance; they're either buying them for the history or because they happen to have a vintage bike and a bunch of money to throw around. But regardless, I guess you'll find out what they're worth when your auction ends!

FYI, magnesium is lighter, but not stronger than aluminum when comparing reasonable alloys of each. And if they're "pure" magnesium (e.g. unalloyed), they're much weaker than aluminum. These are likely machined from AZ31B alloy as that's one of the go-to structural extrusion alloys of magnesium. It's not likely these are a casting due to their one-off nature, but even if they were, the cast alloys are weaker than AZ31B, which is only about 70% the strength of 6061-T6 aluminum and 35% the strength of 7075-T6.

You don't see any current forks, works or not, made from magnesium. That's because, while it is 65% the weight of aluminum, it's only 35% the strength of a 7000 series alloy. Add in the corrosion and manufacturing issues, and aluminum is the vastly superior material for the job. Magnesium certainly has its place, but in the motocross world that's going to be limited to cast engine cases and covers for the most part.

Bearuno wrote:

If I was the seller, I'd be backing off on the repeated "Pure Magnesium" bit. It's not a way to entice any but the absolute neophyte to engineering - and, they can press a few buttons on their computer to find out how bad a choice pure Mag ( or, basically any other metallic material in it's pure form) would be.

It's got to be a Magnesium Alloy , with some percentage of a variety of other material(s). to have any real structural strength. It's as simple as that.

I had some fun a week or two back, doing some Mag welding. Mixing gases, damned near 'burying' the electrode in the puddle, and collecting the minuscule bits of dust from the cleaning between runs. It entertained my Grand Nephews to see ( they were goggled up, and safely located away from things) said dust burn up in my kiln.

Bearuno: Good comment, I made a correction in the EBay listing. I emailed the current bidder an explanation too.

|

San Diego
1986 KX 125 E1
1987 CR125
2018 KTM 250 EXC TPI
#54

5/17/2019 10:01 AM

Are you selling these for RL or did you buy/acquire them from him somehow?

|

5/20/2019 12:09 PM

Those forks belong on this ron lechien replica build in france i reckon.......




|





5/20/2019 1:17 PM

smezmx wrote:

Those forks belong on this ron lechien replica build in france i reckon.......




Where did you get the rear sprocket ? Great looking bike . What year is it ?
Thanks

|