JUST ANOTHER 2016 KTM 250SXF CHASSIS KX500 ENGINE CONVERSION GONE MAD!

Sandblaster
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Sandblaster
Edited Date/Time 1/1/2021 4:24am
So, here it is in the back of the truck and headed 4 hours home...

I have never tried this conversion before so we will see what happens.. :-)

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Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/20/2017 3:46pm
11/20/2017 3:46pm
Got it home... Time for the real work to begin..



No... I will not be using my SM for a donor Lol...

The Shop

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vmxracer
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vmxracer 11/21/2017 2:05am
11/21/2017 2:05am
Will be watching with interest, I'm about to start something similar, putting a ktm380 engine in 2015 250sx frame
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/21/2017 6:15am
11/21/2017 6:15am
vmxracer wrote:
Will be watching with interest, I'm about to start something similar, putting a ktm380 engine in 2015 250sx frame
Jason From JT engine Works and I have discussed the same thing... But it's on the back burner until I get this one done Lol..
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/21/2017 3:55pm
11/21/2017 3:55pm
Just for grins I compared a older 07 KTM 450 frame to the kx500 engine and that would be a much easier conversion... But, I'm hard headed :-)



PTshox
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PTshox 11/22/2017 12:37am
11/22/2017 12:37am
Sandblaster wrote:
Just for grins I compared a older 07 KTM 450 frame to the kx500 engine and that would be a much easier conversion... But, I'm hard...
Just for grins I compared a older 07 KTM 450 frame to the kx500 engine and that would be a much easier conversion... But, I'm hard headed :-)



If you did that 07 chassis you'd be the proud owner of one evil handling machine! Along the line of a TM400
2
moto9
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moto9 11/22/2017 1:19am
11/22/2017 1:19am
Most wild conversions require cutting and modifying the frame.
Now get to work?
vmxracer
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vmxracer 11/22/2017 1:49am
11/22/2017 1:49am
Can you use part of the 07 cradle with the 16 frame?
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/22/2017 5:37am
11/22/2017 5:37am
Sandblaster wrote:
Just for grins I compared a older 07 KTM 450 frame to the kx500 engine and that would be a much easier conversion... But, I'm hard...
Just for grins I compared a older 07 KTM 450 frame to the kx500 engine and that would be a much easier conversion... But, I'm hard headed :-)



PTshox wrote:
If you did that 07 chassis you'd be the proud owner of one evil handling machine! Along the line of a TM400
Good thing I'm using the 16 frame :-)
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/22/2017 5:38am
11/22/2017 5:38am
moto9 wrote:
Most wild conversions require cutting and modifying the frame.
Now get to work?
Yes they do Lol....
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/22/2017 5:42am
11/22/2017 5:42am
I have the coolest water cooled band saw you have ever seen!!!

JWACK
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JWACK 11/22/2017 5:45am
11/22/2017 5:45am
The most important thing you should do is swap out the teeth chattering 4cs forks with the old kawasaki open chambers! They will work ten times better! Jk but not really.
Looking forward to seeing it finished.
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/22/2017 5:48am
11/22/2017 5:48am
JWACK wrote:
The most important thing you should do is swap out the teeth chattering 4cs forks with the old kawasaki open chambers! They will work ten times...
The most important thing you should do is swap out the teeth chattering 4cs forks with the old kawasaki open chambers! They will work ten times better! Jk but not really.
Looking forward to seeing it finished.
Oh yeah... Still working on that...
I have a set of 11 KX450F forks but I'm looking at something else right now...
Schools still out on that for now..

Pit Row

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GregDVT
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GregDVT 11/22/2017 8:00am
11/22/2017 8:00am
Sandblaster wrote:
I have the coolest water cooled band saw you have ever seen!!!

Awesome haha
scooter5002
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scooter5002 11/22/2017 9:16am
11/22/2017 9:16am
Is that one of the two bikes I found for you, or ANOTHER one? Bike pig. Laughing
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/22/2017 9:30am
11/22/2017 9:30am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2017 9:31am
Hmmm...
The pumpkin came from Grantspass OR..
A guy on Facebook had it for sale.
I eventually ended up buying two and shipping one to Canada...
Someone gave me the heads up on the first pumpkin on Facebook... but I can't remember who.. I thought he was in the US.
If it was you, Thanks! Lol
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/22/2017 4:48pm
11/22/2017 4:48pm
Ok... I did the rough work and Jason came in and did some more clean up.
We are being very careful to remove as little material as possible.
These tubes are thin and we don't want to weaken them and more then required..







PTshox
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PTshox 11/22/2017 11:24pm
11/22/2017 11:24pm
You're digging in! That's the only way to do it. It will all work out...ke

keep an eye on the counter shaft sprocket location vs the swing arm pivoit bolt. You want the counter shaft
to be a little bit below the swing arm piviot bolt... )
Bearuno
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Bearuno 11/23/2017 2:30am
11/23/2017 2:30am
Why, Why , did you cut the foot peg mount section of the of the swingarm pivot casting???????????????

You've made things so much harder for yourself.

I did such a conversion last year, and I just removed the tubing part of the cradle and made a whole new cradle to go from the cast plates, and then up to (the necessarily higher point to clear the exhaust) downtube.

All it took was less than $60 AUD of 1 1/4" 4130, and the 2 bends to each side of the cradle. I also put in 2 diagonals from the linkage mount / frame cross over much like you'd see on most steel frames.

I always set the Counter Shaft center of any 'hybrid' I make at the same height as the original engine (well, unless it's too bloody high as std, when you factor in the huge torque of a 500 2t) .Too many people end up placing that center too high, just to make 'ancillaries' easier to accommodate, but it's a great way to really, really stuff up your suspension and handling.

The Center of the CS and SA Pivot Center is dictated by the engine (but you can get fancy with offset case inserts for the SA pivot bolt to go through) , but I've found usually less than 5mm difference, as designers had long since learned that as small a distance as possible was the go.

I hope it works out for you - my mate that I did the KX500 / 16 SXF Hybrid for loves it, and it was an easy job to do. Being steel, with far smaller frame sections, makes things far simpler than an AF.
1
Slosh 112
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Slosh 112 11/23/2017 3:14am
11/23/2017 3:14am
vmxracer wrote:
Will be watching with interest, I'm about to start something similar, putting a ktm380 engine in 2015 250sx frame
First of all where did you find a 380 Engine in Australia?!?! Second of all do you know of another?!?!
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/23/2017 6:38am
11/23/2017 6:38am
Bearuno wrote:
Why, [i]Why [/i], did you cut the foot peg mount section of the of the swingarm pivot casting??????????????? You've made things so much harder for yourself...
Why, Why , did you cut the foot peg mount section of the of the swingarm pivot casting???????????????

You've made things so much harder for yourself.

I did such a conversion last year, and I just removed the tubing part of the cradle and made a whole new cradle to go from the cast plates, and then up to (the necessarily higher point to clear the exhaust) downtube.

All it took was less than $60 AUD of 1 1/4" 4130, and the 2 bends to each side of the cradle. I also put in 2 diagonals from the linkage mount / frame cross over much like you'd see on most steel frames.

I always set the Counter Shaft center of any 'hybrid' I make at the same height as the original engine (well, unless it's too bloody high as std, when you factor in the huge torque of a 500 2t) .Too many people end up placing that center too high, just to make 'ancillaries' easier to accommodate, but it's a great way to really, really stuff up your suspension and handling.

The Center of the CS and SA Pivot Center is dictated by the engine (but you can get fancy with offset case inserts for the SA pivot bolt to go through) , but I've found usually less than 5mm difference, as designers had long since learned that as small a distance as possible was the go.

I hope it works out for you - my mate that I did the KX500 / 16 SXF Hybrid for loves it, and it was an easy job to do. Being steel, with far smaller frame sections, makes things far simpler than an AF.
Lol... I appreciate your concern, I really do :-)
But, you missed something really important... but it will be made very clear over the next few days...
Things may not be as they appear to be...
I also appreciate your insight on alignments.
A lot of thought went into this, so stay tuned I think you'll be happy with my results..

Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/23/2017 6:42am
11/23/2017 6:42am
A bit more clean up and prep on the frame rails...



One of the things I may not have mentioned is that these frame rails are really thin so great care was taken to not grind off any more material then was absolutely necessary...



Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/23/2017 6:57am
11/23/2017 6:57am
A bit of info:
Jason at JT Engine Works and I are working on this project together as we have the spare time.
Jason is a CR500 and KX500 specialist and works out of my shop.
He builds all types of dirt bike engines and chassis.

Here is a few engine builds he has done..

Bultaco Pursang 125


1989 CR250


KX500 bottom end with custom made 2 piece clutch cover


Couple of KX500's


Here is a couple of pics of his Championship winning CR500 build


This thing is insane..


Needless to say I am very happy to have him helping out on this build..
Sandblaster
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Sandblaster 11/23/2017 7:00am
11/23/2017 7:00am
PTshox wrote:
You're digging in! That's the only way to do it. It will all work out...ke[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/11/22/227027/s1200_IMG_1671.jpg[/img] keep an eye on the counter shaft sprocket location vs the...
You're digging in! That's the only way to do it. It will all work out...ke

keep an eye on the counter shaft sprocket location vs the swing arm pivoit bolt. You want the counter shaft
to be a little bit below the swing arm piviot bolt... )
Oh yeah... Thanks for the tips.
Bearuno
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Bearuno 11/23/2017 10:21am
11/23/2017 10:21am
Sandblaster wrote:
Lol... I appreciate your concern, I really do :-) But, you missed something really important... but it will be made very clear over the next few...
Lol... I appreciate your concern, I really do :-)
But, you missed something really important... but it will be made very clear over the next few days...
Things may not be as they appear to be...
I also appreciate your insight on alignments.
A lot of thought went into this, so stay tuned I think you'll be happy with my results..

I missed a key point - What, that you cut the cradle out of the earlier frame to use, is that it?

As I said, it was a very easy job making a new cradle, and, using round, 1 1/4" 4130 made it cheap, and a hell of a lot stronger for a vibratory old 500 2t - and that's what they are, no matter how well built / balanced an engine is, when compared to a counter balanced 4t. KTMs have become utterly minimalistic, in their pursuit of light weight. And that means you need to be bloody careful.

As you said, the KTM cradles are very thin, and quite small in size. And their shape doesn't compensate for those two points.

I wish you well with your build, but you can get 4130 easily, and finding a tube bender is not hard, even in the back of whoop whoop. But, I've been building frames for over 4 decades now, so material procurement , bending, mitreing , machining and welding is an every day thing for me.

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