Full Tilt TM Racing Two Stroke Build(s) Update: Dirt Magazine "Two Stroke Tuesday"

racerx317
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racerx317 4/5/2018 4:00pm
4/5/2018 4:00pm
Black Diamond... if you’re going to do graphics I’d have to recommend Sandbox Kings. I didn’t have to trim anything and it all fit perfectly.

H4L
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H4L 4/5/2018 5:04pm
4/5/2018 5:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2018 5:05pm
racerx317 wrote:
I don’t want to take away from this build thread any more than I already have... I just get so pumped about the bike that I...
I don’t want to take away from this build thread any more than I already have... I just get so pumped about the bike that I can go on for hours talking about these machines.

My apologies to black diamond... I will take some pics of our bike tomorrow and put it in the product review section to keep this thread clean. To answer your question though... HGS comes stock on the TMs.

blackdiamond wrote:
No apology needed, I appreciate the feedback and insight! You are welcome to post anything TM related on this thread, I am always interested to hear...
No apology needed, I appreciate the feedback and insight!

You are welcome to post anything TM related on this thread, I am always interested to hear other peoples opinions on various mods, parts, etc. I am also learning these bikes day by day and find new things all the time that I did not know before purchasing them.
Yep. Keep the info coming.. It's definitely peeked my interest..

Didn't know much about TM till this thread got started.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/5/2018 7:36pm
4/5/2018 7:36pm
racerx317 wrote:
Black Diamond... if you’re going to do graphics I’d have to recommend Sandbox Kings. I didn’t have to trim anything and it all fit perfectly.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/05/253740/s1200_CD0F266C_F563_4504_A819_293F16DF2B71.jpg[/img]
Black Diamond... if you’re going to do graphics I’d have to recommend Sandbox Kings. I didn’t have to trim anything and it all fit perfectly.

Clean looking graphics layout.

The Shop

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blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/5/2018 8:06pm
4/5/2018 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2018 2:08am
.kyle wrote:
Interesting! Thanks for the wheel picture. I wonder what the weight is like compared to other brands of rear wheel.
The lightest I know of. I was pleasantly surprised.



For comparison purposes, the rear on the Kite hub set for the Honda is over 9 lbs: https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-team-tested-kiteexcel-wheelset-by-du…

blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/5/2018 8:09pm
4/5/2018 8:09pm
The idea of using 9 sprocket bolts makes sense now. You can take every sprocket nut off with a T-handle from the opposite side because they are spaced to perfectly align with the spoke crossings.



1
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/5/2018 10:07pm
4/5/2018 10:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2018 12:03am
I found some time tonight to do some more tweaking on a few details.

Here is a pic of the 144 with 2 silencer mounting tabs (the 144 shares the same subframe as the 250 which has 2 silencer mounts) There is no need for the second mount on the 144 so I removed it to clean up the rear end a bit.





Problem solved.

blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/5/2018 10:23pm
4/5/2018 10:23pm
While measuring and changing a lot of the hardware on the bikes to titanium I ran into a few small roadblocks. One of them is the cylinder base nuts on both bikes. They require a small flange nut because of the way the cylinder is cast and I have not been able to find any that fit correctly.

I ended up taking typical ti nuts and had my friend Emil machine the flanges down to fit the base of the cylinder perfectly.



JMX82
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JMX82 4/6/2018 4:52am
4/6/2018 4:52am
Are you replacing all hexagon socket screws in the engine cases with more common hex head cap screws?
erik_94COBRA
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erik_94COBRA 4/6/2018 8:36am
4/6/2018 8:36am
blackdiamond wrote:
The idea of using 9 sprocket bolts makes sense now. You can take every sprocket nut off with a T-handle from the opposite side because they...
The idea of using 9 sprocket bolts makes sense now. You can take every sprocket nut off with a T-handle from the opposite side because they are spaced to perfectly align with the spoke crossings.



The 9 fastener mounting bothered me until I saw a picture earlier in this thread and suspected what you just posted. Some clever thinking from TM.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 4/6/2018 8:41am
4/6/2018 8:41am
blackdiamond wrote:
The idea of using 9 sprocket bolts makes sense now. You can take every sprocket nut off with a T-handle from the opposite side because they...
The idea of using 9 sprocket bolts makes sense now. You can take every sprocket nut off with a T-handle from the opposite side because they are spaced to perfectly align with the spoke crossings.



erik_94COBRA wrote:
The 9 fastener mounting bothered me until I saw a picture earlier in this thread and suspected what you just posted. Some clever thinking from TM.
Thing about the 9 sprocket bolts is you can just remove every 3rd and now you’ve got 6. Between two bikes I’ve logged about 65 hours like this and have had no problem, and as a bonus I have an extra set of sprocket bolts in my parts inventory for free. Thanks TM!
philG
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philG 4/6/2018 1:16pm
4/6/2018 1:16pm
Loads of SM guys run 6 bolts with no issues.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/6/2018 3:17pm
4/6/2018 3:17pm
JMX82 wrote:
Are you replacing all hexagon socket screws in the engine cases with more common hex head cap screws?
It would be impossible because TM recesses the bolt into the cases in many of the locations and others do not have the room for a flange hex head. I did change out the head bolts to titanium hex head bolts but I will probably leave the engine case bolts alone because the weight savings is so minimal when replaced with Ti in those areas.
JBecker 72
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JBecker 72 4/6/2018 3:21pm
4/6/2018 3:21pm
racerx317 wrote:
Black Diamond... if you’re going to do graphics I’d have to recommend Sandbox Kings. I didn’t have to trim anything and it all fit perfectly.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/04/05/253740/s1200_CD0F266C_F563_4504_A819_293F16DF2B71.jpg[/img]
Black Diamond... if you’re going to do graphics I’d have to recommend Sandbox Kings. I didn’t have to trim anything and it all fit perfectly.

It moved.

Gorgeous bike.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/6/2018 3:35pm
4/6/2018 3:35pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Thing about the 9 sprocket bolts is you can just remove every 3rd and now you’ve got 6. Between two bikes I’ve logged about 65 hours...
Thing about the 9 sprocket bolts is you can just remove every 3rd and now you’ve got 6. Between two bikes I’ve logged about 65 hours like this and have had no problem, and as a bonus I have an extra set of sprocket bolts in my parts inventory for free. Thanks TM!
That seems to be a common move for a lot of TM owners.
Slosh 112
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Slosh 112 4/6/2018 6:09pm
4/6/2018 6:09pm
I've always thought about these 9 bolt sprockets when I'm doing a gearing change or building a set of wheels, my guess is that they do this so they can make the hub lighter and thinner in that area. So instead of having a big bulky hub that is strong they rely on the sprocket for the strength, they do look a lot thinner in that area than any other hub I've seen. But this is where my brain struggles with their logic, if they did that to save weight on already light billet aluminium hubs then they have just wasted it by using 9 bolts to hold it together, could be that it works out because on their factory bikes they can use titanium, or could be because they thought this will F$#@k with peoples heads lets do this.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/6/2018 7:26pm
4/6/2018 7:26pm
Slosh 112 wrote:
I've always thought about these 9 bolt sprockets when I'm doing a gearing change or building a set of wheels, my guess is that they do...
I've always thought about these 9 bolt sprockets when I'm doing a gearing change or building a set of wheels, my guess is that they do this so they can make the hub lighter and thinner in that area. So instead of having a big bulky hub that is strong they rely on the sprocket for the strength, they do look a lot thinner in that area than any other hub I've seen. But this is where my brain struggles with their logic, if they did that to save weight on already light billet aluminium hubs then they have just wasted it by using 9 bolts to hold it together, could be that it works out because on their factory bikes they can use titanium, or could be because they thought this will F$#@k with peoples heads lets do this.
I agree with your theory, I think it helps them design a lighter hub shell and the sprocket bolts weigh exactly 10 grams each (not including the nut)

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racerx317
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racerx317 4/6/2018 9:01pm
4/6/2018 9:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/6/2018 9:28pm
Slosh 112 wrote:
I've always thought about these 9 bolt sprockets when I'm doing a gearing change or building a set of wheels, my guess is that they do...
I've always thought about these 9 bolt sprockets when I'm doing a gearing change or building a set of wheels, my guess is that they do this so they can make the hub lighter and thinner in that area. So instead of having a big bulky hub that is strong they rely on the sprocket for the strength, they do look a lot thinner in that area than any other hub I've seen. But this is where my brain struggles with their logic, if they did that to save weight on already light billet aluminium hubs then they have just wasted it by using 9 bolts to hold it together, could be that it works out because on their factory bikes they can use titanium, or could be because they thought this will F$#@k with peoples heads lets do this.
I personally don’t see a problem with it at all.

1. Adding three extra bolt / nut weight is still a lighter total design if it saves just shy of a pound off the wheel weight as the earlier post states.

2. Aftermarket wheels often put the nut stuffed oddly behind the spoke cross making it difficult to even get a box end wrench on it easily. On the TM, you can easily put a socket on the nut (two different ways) while the wheel is still on the bike to loosen or tighten. After loosening them, remove the chain and rear wheel to quickly swap out the sprocket. I, personally, can change a sprocket faster on the TM than a bike with aftermarket wheels.

3. I’m all good with the added security of the three extra bolts with jumps regularly exceeding 100’+ these days.



Bearuno
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Bearuno 4/7/2018 1:28am
4/7/2018 1:28am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 1:45am
racerx317 wrote:
I personally don’t see a problem with it at all. 1. Adding three extra bolt / nut weight is still a lighter total design if it...
I personally don’t see a problem with it at all.

1. Adding three extra bolt / nut weight is still a lighter total design if it saves just shy of a pound off the wheel weight as the earlier post states.

2. Aftermarket wheels often put the nut stuffed oddly behind the spoke cross making it difficult to even get a box end wrench on it easily. On the TM, you can easily put a socket on the nut (two different ways) while the wheel is still on the bike to loosen or tighten. After loosening them, remove the chain and rear wheel to quickly swap out the sprocket. I, personally, can change a sprocket faster on the TM than a bike with aftermarket wheels.

3. I’m all good with the added security of the three extra bolts with jumps regularly exceeding 100’+ these days.



This post ^

It's Great that in this thread, people are finally seeing the way - and reasoning - and ease of use, of TMs 9 bolt set up.

It's So easy to work on, and gives a far stronger hub / sprocket interface ( see the Vital running joke[s] about torquing sprocket bolts) and potential for a lighter and stronger hub.

The TM hubs - along with so much of their product(s) are beautiful , superbly engineered things.

That people take 3 bolts out and run them like that ( I recall that as an MXA tip / bleat - but of course, not all tried it as a result of their tip) - well, good on you. Glad it works for you.

I'd never do that - as the bloke above said, I could get Sprockets on and off TM rear wheels easier / quicker than the majority of rear wheels. It's just such a good set up, I've no problem with a few extra seconds of work.
Andy7
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Andy7 4/7/2018 6:54am
4/7/2018 6:54am
Can you upload some detailed shots of the monoshock please? I know the body is cnc and very trick also. Stunning bikes!
.kyle
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.kyle 4/7/2018 7:06am
4/7/2018 7:06am
9 bolts certainly make a lot more sense now because of the pictures! Thanks blackdiamond.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 4/7/2018 7:07am
4/7/2018 7:07am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 7:21am
Bearuno wrote:
This post ^ It's Great that in this thread, people are finally seeing the way - and reasoning - and ease of use, of TMs 9...
This post ^

It's Great that in this thread, people are finally seeing the way - and reasoning - and ease of use, of TMs 9 bolt set up.

It's So easy to work on, and gives a far stronger hub / sprocket interface ( see the Vital running joke[s] about torquing sprocket bolts) and potential for a lighter and stronger hub.

The TM hubs - along with so much of their product(s) are beautiful , superbly engineered things.

That people take 3 bolts out and run them like that ( I recall that as an MXA tip / bleat - but of course, not all tried it as a result of their tip) - well, good on you. Glad it works for you.

I'd never do that - as the bloke above said, I could get Sprockets on and off TM rear wheels easier / quicker than the majority of rear wheels. It's just such a good set up, I've no problem with a few extra seconds of work.
The reason I started removing the 3 sprocket bolts is because I noticed it in pics of their factory riders/bikes. I don’t think I would have taken MXA’s word for it, but when I saw TM themselves doing it I figured it was “approved.”

I like to keep my bikes a light as possible, weighing tires, light tubes, light rim locks, etc. so removing 3 sprocket bolts seemed like a no brainer.
•motospeed• 4/7/2018 8:22am
4/7/2018 8:22am
nytsmaC wrote:
The reason I started removing the 3 sprocket bolts is because I noticed it in pics of their factory riders/bikes. I don’t think I would have...
The reason I started removing the 3 sprocket bolts is because I noticed it in pics of their factory riders/bikes. I don’t think I would have taken MXA’s word for it, but when I saw TM themselves doing it I figured it was “approved.”

I like to keep my bikes a light as possible, weighing tires, light tubes, light rim locks, etc. so removing 3 sprocket bolts seemed like a no brainer.
My first TM (1997 TM125en) was an ex TM Racing Australia / Tony Vickers race bike, which was purchased directly from the race team (the importer). It had the 6 bolt setup also (3 bolts removed). I've run the same setup on all my TMs (8 of them) without a problem.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/7/2018 10:55am
4/7/2018 10:55am
Andy7 wrote:
Can you upload some detailed shots of the monoshock please? I know the body is cnc and very trick also. Stunning bikes!
Here are a few pics of the shock.







nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 4/7/2018 11:26am
4/7/2018 11:26am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 11:28am
I weighed the shocks too, the TM shock is close to 1lb lighter than the Showa off of a CR250 if I recall correctly, with springs removed. It is beautifully built.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/7/2018 1:12pm
4/7/2018 1:12pm
nytsmaC wrote:
I weighed the shocks too, the TM shock is close to 1lb lighter than the Showa off of a CR250 if I recall correctly, with springs...
I weighed the shocks too, the TM shock is close to 1lb lighter than the Showa off of a CR250 if I recall correctly, with springs removed. It is beautifully built.
That is impressive considering it has a 18mm shock shaft as well.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/8/2018 1:46pm
4/8/2018 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2022 10:52pm
I had a chance yesterday to make a bit more progress on a few more small changes I wanted to make to the bikes.

One of the few things I do not think is a good idea on these bikes is the fact hat the sight glass on the rear master cylinder faces the outside of the bike instead of the rear like most models. That seems like it would be much more prone to breakage than most bikes so I decided to prep the master cylinders to be welded shut.

Here is what they look like after the sight glass was machined off:



blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 4/8/2018 3:06pm
4/8/2018 3:06pm
Doing a little homework and trying to figure out some triple clamp and bar mount options.



racerx317
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racerx317 4/8/2018 3:50pm
4/8/2018 3:50pm
I have a minor note to add related to the fork guard bolts. I installed a Tamer Holeshot Device (YZ125/250 fits the TM) and found that the right fork guard was not staying in the correct position. In a hurry I held it and tightened it only to crack one of the holes in the guard itself and distorted the others and it still didn’t sit correctly on the bike with the added weight of the Tamer. I found out that the fork gaurds are actually the same as an older model CR125, so I bought some of the Honda bolts to see if I could get rid of some slop from the smaller TM bolt. They aren’t nearly as cool as the gold TM bolts but fit like a freaking glove. My new fork guard is due in tomorrow and I’ll install the new bolts in that side as well. No more worries of distorting the plastic!

Just a minor note in case anyone else had this issue.









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