Tracks charging spectator fees

FreshTopEnd
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Sacramento, CA US
6/2/2026 12:29pm
motomojo wrote:
It could work for larger public tracks.The Equine industry uses a form of this to protect themselves from litigation. Certainly it could be adapted to other...

It could work for larger public tracks.

The Equine industry uses a form of this to protect themselves from litigation. Certainly it could be adapted to other sports considered to be dangerous. There has to be a better way to do it than what we are doing now.

I'm not sure the equestrian model translates.  The challenge will be potential liability around human changes to natural terrain - what track isn't built these days - and managing operations in terms of risk management with lots of people on site.

6/2/2026 12:51pm
motomojo wrote:
Here's is the AZ statute 33-1551

This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct. It is how they get around the liability waivers. Whether or not something constitutes gross negligence is going to up to a judge and/or jury and that judge and that jury won't know squat about mx. Everything we do on an mx bike at an mx track is batshit crazy to a judge and/or jury so what you think of as gross negligence at your track is very likely going to differ significantly from what the fact finders think of as gross negligence. 

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1
6/2/2026 12:57pm
kage173 wrote:
I will never understand how a group of people that buy $80k trucks, $70k trailers, $10k bikes, $5k worth of aftermarke parts, $800 helmets and $30/...

I will never understand how a group of people that buy $80k trucks, $70k trailers, $10k bikes, $5k worth of aftermarke parts, $800 helmets and $30/ gallon race fuel somehow draw the line at $40 rider and $10 spectator fees. 

Out of the entire moto economy, the track owners have the slimmest profit margins while putting in the most passion and love for the sport and the local moto community. 

I have had moto dads come into the shop, driving a new $750k RV and not gonna pay $3k for a pw50.  "My boy is the next big thing" give us free stuff!  It gets old fast.

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motomojo
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Kingman, AZ US
6/2/2026 1:06pm
motomojo wrote:
Here's is the AZ statute 33-1551
Smuffers wrote:
This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct...

This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct. It is how they get around the liability waivers. Whether or not something constitutes gross negligence is going to up to a judge and/or jury and that judge and that jury won't know squat about mx. Everything we do on an mx bike at an mx track is batshit crazy to a judge and/or jury so what you think of as gross negligence at your track is very likely going to differ significantly from what the fact finders think of as gross negligence. 

Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the years to be honest authentic folks. There have been injuries over the years but so far no issues. I know none of these folks will sue at least I'm very confident of that nor tell their ins where they were injured.

No point in living in fear I'll take my chances I've made it 10 years so far. Life's a gamble roll the dice.

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1

The Shop

vet323
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Lead, SD US
6/2/2026 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2026 1:30pm
motomojo wrote:
Here's is the AZ statute 33-1551
Smuffers wrote:
This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct...

This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct. It is how they get around the liability waivers. Whether or not something constitutes gross negligence is going to up to a judge and/or jury and that judge and that jury won't know squat about mx. Everything we do on an mx bike at an mx track is batshit crazy to a judge and/or jury so what you think of as gross negligence at your track is very likely going to differ significantly from what the fact finders think of as gross negligence. 

motomojo wrote:
Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the...

Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the years to be honest authentic folks. There have been injuries over the years but so far no issues. I know none of these folks will sue at least I'm very confident of that nor tell their ins where they were injured.

No point in living in fear I'll take my chances I've made it 10 years so far. Life's a gamble roll the dice.

They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you don't charge anything  for access. That doesn't work for an actual racetrack.

6/2/2026 1:36pm
vet323 wrote:
They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you...

They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you don't charge anything  for access. That doesn't work for an actual racetrack.

Correct, and this was the blanket the industry tried hiding Rich Taylor under.  

When I did my hand and thumb in two years ago at DITD down south, I got calls non stop from my insurance company asking every kind of detail about the event I was at, waivers I signed, details of the course etc. The first 2 times they called the pain meds were really doing their job and I didn’t even think it was real. The third time I was coherent enough and just told them I signed a waiver, walked the course beforehand and acknowledged the risk before participating in the event. Never heard anything ever again. 

1
motomojo
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Kingman, AZ US
6/2/2026 1:37pm
Smuffers wrote:
This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct...

This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct. It is how they get around the liability waivers. Whether or not something constitutes gross negligence is going to up to a judge and/or jury and that judge and that jury won't know squat about mx. Everything we do on an mx bike at an mx track is batshit crazy to a judge and/or jury so what you think of as gross negligence at your track is very likely going to differ significantly from what the fact finders think of as gross negligence. 

motomojo wrote:
Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the...

Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the years to be honest authentic folks. There have been injuries over the years but so far no issues. I know none of these folks will sue at least I'm very confident of that nor tell their ins where they were injured.

No point in living in fear I'll take my chances I've made it 10 years so far. Life's a gamble roll the dice.

vet323 wrote:
They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you...

They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you don't charge anything  for access. That doesn't work for an actual racetrack.

True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no won't work there in current form but change can happen if enough folks want it to.

DoctorJD
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Somewhere in..., GA US
6/2/2026 1:46pm
kage173 wrote:
I will never understand how a group of people that buy $80k trucks, $70k trailers, $10k bikes, $5k worth of aftermarke parts, $800 helmets and $30/...

I will never understand how a group of people that buy $80k trucks, $70k trailers, $10k bikes, $5k worth of aftermarke parts, $800 helmets and $30/ gallon race fuel somehow draw the line at $40 rider and $10 spectator fees. 

Out of the entire moto economy, the track owners have the slimmest profit margins while putting in the most passion and love for the sport and the local moto community. 

Well, let me introduce you to the mountain biking community...

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vet323
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Lead, SD US
6/2/2026 1:49pm
motomojo wrote:
Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the...

Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the years to be honest authentic folks. There have been injuries over the years but so far no issues. I know none of these folks will sue at least I'm very confident of that nor tell their ins where they were injured.

No point in living in fear I'll take my chances I've made it 10 years so far. Life's a gamble roll the dice.

vet323 wrote:
They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you...

They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you don't charge anything  for access. That doesn't work for an actual racetrack.

motomojo wrote:
True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no...

True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no won't work there in current form but change can happen if enough folks want it to.

You aren't operating a race track. A race track requires money to operate. A responsible race track requires insurance. 

motomojo
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Kingman, AZ US
6/2/2026 1:51pm
vet323 wrote:
They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you...

They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you don't charge anything  for access. That doesn't work for an actual racetrack.

motomojo wrote:
True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no...

True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no won't work there in current form but change can happen if enough folks want it to.

vet323 wrote:

You aren't operating a race track. A race track requires money to operate. A responsible race track requires insurance. 

Correct as I have stated it's a practice track. Is there anything else I can help you with?

3
OwenJakes
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sebree, KY US
6/2/2026 1:54pm
seth505 wrote:
What's your realistic solution?  I think everyone realizes you don't have one but still decide to complain about the reality of the situation. Also, have you...

What's your realistic solution?  I think everyone realizes you don't have one but still decide to complain about the reality of the situation. Also, have you been to any other type of motorsports track/track day and seen the costs associated?

OwenJakes wrote:
Yeah so I already mentioned the club model as opposed to a venue setup. This may or may not do a ton I’m not a business...

Yeah so I already mentioned the club model as opposed to a venue setup. This may or may not do a ton I’m not a business attorney. 

Better waivers or even mandatory safety courses for first time riders. I don’t understand how people waive all rights and then somehow still have the rights to sue. Why do we have waivers?


Finally as it’s already been mentioned, approaching the situation differently. Insurance companies don’t care if tracks stay open so they’re going to maximize profits against track owners as long as they can. Clearly a different solution besides “moar better insurance” is direly needed. I won’t speak to what that looks like because I don’t have the knowledge. 

What I do know is motocross used to be a decently affordable sport for a family after the up front cost of bikes. The trajectory that we’re on now is anything but that. Everyone seems to be okay with insurance essentially removing the common man from the sport, which is exactly the class of people that uphold and industry. 

There are only so many TRT infused boomers with toy haulers and baseball-dad personalities and they’re not going to keep things going on their own. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:

I suggest you not take up snow skiing.

If you want to get sticker shock, look up a day pass at Aspen.

Day passes for lift MTB is pretty dang steep too. 

See what I did there😏😂

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6/2/2026 1:56pm
motomojo wrote:
Here's is the AZ statute 33-1551
Smuffers wrote:
This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct...

This does not protect you from litigation. Virtually every lawsuit involving an injured rider and a track/facility owner involves allegations of gross negligence and/or willful conduct. It is how they get around the liability waivers. Whether or not something constitutes gross negligence is going to up to a judge and/or jury and that judge and that jury won't know squat about mx. Everything we do on an mx bike at an mx track is batshit crazy to a judge and/or jury so what you think of as gross negligence at your track is very likely going to differ significantly from what the fact finders think of as gross negligence. 

motomojo wrote:
Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the...

Not really concerned about that as I mentioned in Fresh top ends post I have a core group of people that have proved themselves over the years to be honest authentic folks. There have been injuries over the years but so far no issues. I know none of these folks will sue at least I'm very confident of that nor tell their ins where they were injured.

No point in living in fear I'll take my chances I've made it 10 years so far. Life's a gamble roll the dice.

Rolling the dice with your buddies is all well and good, but you held out these statutes as being a magic bullet to fix the issues facing track owners. Unfortunately, it is more complex than that and most people are not willing to put their personal assets at risk to let 15-20 folks ride on their property. If that property is in your name and not an LLC or other shell company then every other thing you own is at risk if get sued and lose. That's just not a risk most people are willing to take and it has nothing to do with living in fear. 

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OwenJakes
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6/2/2026 1:59pm
mx_563 wrote:

I think location adds context. California is not the easiest or cheapest place to keep a high profile motocross facility open and running. 

 

NicNak wrote:

Yeah well riddle me why archview regional prices are higher than Pala regional prices? Across the board 

Doesn’t archview have club-ish aspects like volunteer labor and other stuff? 

2
vet323
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Lead, SD US
6/2/2026 2:09pm
motomojo wrote:
True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no...

True as I don't charge anything for access. Works for me and others who may like to do what I'm doing but a racing facility, no won't work there in current form but change can happen if enough folks want it to.

vet323 wrote:

You aren't operating a race track. A race track requires money to operate. A responsible race track requires insurance. 

motomojo wrote:

Correct as I have stated it's a practice track. Is there anything else I can help you with?

This subject was never about you and your situation.

 "Change can happen if enough people want it to."

No, it can't. A proper racetrack can't pay for itself with your business model.

2
SouthSwellBraap
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San Juan Capistrano , CA US
6/2/2026 2:11pm
Smuffers wrote:
Rolling the dice with your buddies is all well and good, but you held out these statutes as being a magic bullet to fix the issues...

Rolling the dice with your buddies is all well and good, but you held out these statutes as being a magic bullet to fix the issues facing track owners. Unfortunately, it is more complex than that and most people are not willing to put their personal assets at risk to let 15-20 folks ride on their property. If that property is in your name and not an LLC or other shell company then every other thing you own is at risk if get sued and lose. That's just not a risk most people are willing to take and it has nothing to do with living in fear. 

Nah, they should be living in fear. What they’re describing could very likely fall outside § 33‑1551, which is a narrow immunity statute. If it doesn’t apply, they are fully exposed with no real leverage.

El_Rayo
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Valparaiso , IN US
Fantasy
6/2/2026 2:47pm
vet323 wrote:
They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you...

They don't have to sue. Their insurance company will do it for them. The only way Recreation-Access laws will insulate you from litigation is if you don't charge anything  for access. That doesn't work for an actual racetrack.

Rickyisms wrote:
Correct, and this was the blanket the industry tried hiding Rich Taylor under.  When I did my hand and thumb in two years ago at DITD...

Correct, and this was the blanket the industry tried hiding Rich Taylor under.  

When I did my hand and thumb in two years ago at DITD down south, I got calls non stop from my insurance company asking every kind of detail about the event I was at, waivers I signed, details of the course etc. The first 2 times they called the pain meds were really doing their job and I didn’t even think it was real. The third time I was coherent enough and just told them I signed a waiver, walked the course beforehand and acknowledged the risk before participating in the event. Never heard anything ever again. 

You Should have just said you hurt yourself on yourMTB in your backyard. If you say you were at a race, the more info you give them is ammo for them to sue on your behalf. 

1
6/2/2026 3:32pm
El_Rayo wrote:
You Should have just said you hurt yourself on yourMTB in your backyard. If you say you were at a race, the more info you give...

You Should have just said you hurt yourself on yourMTB in your backyard. If you say you were at a race, the more info you give them is ammo for them to sue on your behalf. 

You’re right, I just didn’t know how it had all worked until the LACR stuff and then I started piecing together what they were doing. Next time it’ll be that I fell off the ladder painting my house 👍🏻

1
6/2/2026 3:56pm
jshak805 wrote:
What are the thoughts on spectators being charged to watch? "Starting now, all practice days will include a $10 spectator fee for anyone who is not riding...

What are the thoughts on spectators being charged to watch? 

"Starting now, all practice days will include a $10 spectator fee for anyone who is not riding or practicing.

This helps support daily operations, staffing, facility upkeep, track maintenance, and the continued work it takes to keep Glen Helen a place riders and families can count on week after week."
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DZEJPFYJh0D/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

I live in Florida and have raced all over the US and practiced all over along the way. On a practice day, the spectator always pays to get in the gate. Normally $10-15.00 depending on the track. The only time this does not apply, is if you go to a private facility. Any public track charges, they always have for as long as I can remember. If they are not charging, they are doing it wrong and I am sure it isn't helping their business. Spectators should be happy to pay to come in and watch to entertain themseleves for the day or evening. If it's a parent or family member they are there to support their rider and they also get the entertainment of watching others and having an activity to do. You don't get into a movie theater for free, why should you get into a race track free? Pay the money, support the tracks. If $10-15.00 is to much for you, take up T ball or Football.

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yak651
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Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
6/2/2026 4:20pm

Paid $20/night to camp at a track last weekend, the only amenity was porta johns. Not complaining as I know a track doesn’t make much, but think $20/weekend for camping would be more reasonable if you don’t have flush bathrooms and showers. And yes there was still a $10/person gate fee.

1
mxdad552
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Newington, CT US
6/2/2026 4:28pm
Zeke27G wrote:
Operating a business in California is not for the faint of heart, especially a motocross track of all things. If charging spectator fees helps to cover...

Operating a business in California is not for the faint of heart, especially a motocross track of all things. If charging spectator fees helps to cover operating costs and keep tracks open, I don't see the issue at all. 

I believe if rider is a minor, parent should'n be charged 

1
Radical
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San Diego, CA US
6/2/2026 4:48pm
kage173 wrote:
I will never understand how a group of people that buy $80k trucks, $70k trailers, $10k bikes, $5k worth of aftermarke parts, $800 helmets and $30/...

I will never understand how a group of people that buy $80k trucks, $70k trailers, $10k bikes, $5k worth of aftermarke parts, $800 helmets and $30/ gallon race fuel somehow draw the line at $40 rider and $10 spectator fees. 

Out of the entire moto economy, the track owners have the slimmest profit margins while putting in the most passion and love for the sport and the local moto community. 

There are plenty of us who don't drive $80k trucks, etc...

4
prozach
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Location
Eureka, CA US
6/2/2026 4:52pm

Family of 4, me and my two kids ride and my wife comes to watch.  $160!!  Ouch.  Yeah. It's hard to go very often.  I usually just end up going by myself.  $50. Plus $5 process fee if using a card.  

It would be nice if places had family discount.  But I understand tons of people would just abuse it.  If everyone actually paid when they go to tracks, they might not have to charge as much.  I'm sure lots of people sneak someone in.  

Zesiger 112
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Galveston, TX US
6/2/2026 7:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2026 7:29pm

Creates a barrier to entry for people who want to scope out an easy grab. 
I’d be fine with a fee if as mentioned every rider is allowed one guest for emergency 


It’s like charging a deposit in a small business, weeds out the problem customers real quick 

1
3strokemx
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US
6/3/2026 5:17am
El_Rayo wrote:
You Should have just said you hurt yourself on yourMTB in your backyard. If you say you were at a race, the more info you give...

You Should have just said you hurt yourself on yourMTB in your backyard. If you say you were at a race, the more info you give them is ammo for them to sue on your behalf. 

Rickyisms wrote:
You’re right, I just didn’t know how it had all worked until the LACR stuff and then I started piecing together what they were doing. Next...

You’re right, I just didn’t know how it had all worked until the LACR stuff and then I started piecing together what they were doing. Next time it’ll be that I fell off the ladder painting my house 👍🏻

*Crashed my bicycle in the insurance company's parking lot

3

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