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It’s the perfect explanation that it’s a team issue and not a bike issue as well…
Nothing is wrong with the bike. It’s perfect for us average joes.
How are you coming up with your 0.5-1sec slower numbers? Tracks are not the same from session to session, let alone year to year. Riders improve or decline year over year. I get that you might believe that the numbers are correct, however that’s an opinion and nowhere near a proven, or even provable, fact.
Might be happening!!!🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️😁😁😁
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The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the Kawasaki doesn’t handle Chase’s preferred riding style perfectly, then the bike sucks. But how far does that belief extend? Does that mean that every rider who has to adapt their riding style at all is proving that the bike they are riding sucks? What if Tomac decided that he wanted to skim the whoops sitting on the seat and the bike kept pogoing him over the bars no matter how much work the team put in to try to make it work? Is that the bike’s fault, or is that a case where the rider needs to adapt his approach instead of just demanding that the way he wants to ride is perfect and if the bike doesn’t handle it perfectly, the bike is dog shit?
Obviously that’s hyperbolic, but it’s a serious issue about how far you take a philosophy before you decide that it’s not a universal truth.
Some folks need to realize that Kawasaki can run a shitty operation AND Chase can be a high-maintenance head case…doesn’t need to be one or the other…
according to what?
Spill it pops
We appreciate when pops chimes in.
Yes, his time on Kawi was over ten years ago, but his interview was recent. Whether the Kawi is a 2011 or a 2026, Jake's point seemed to be that that problem is more fundamental than just the bike. It is with those calling the shots at team Kawasaki and their willingness to listen to the riders and to make necessary changes. Prado handled the situation poorly, RV being the beast he was, pushed through it and won anyway, but now we have a guy who is one of the pickiest guys with setup -- Chase Sexton -- and one thing is clear: It's not the riders that are the problem.
Birds in my ear. Might be hear-say as well!
What about that spicy shit they put on for tomac almost 10 years ago. You know.. the USGP stuff.
I have to assume, being a MXGP series, the rules applied as such. Compared the AMA series, more strict. They probably can’t & possibly wish they could.
Chase is like a light switch. Seems to be either on or off.
I don’t recall Eli, Adam or Jason complaining on the previous 2019-2023 KX450 design? I haven’t ridden the 2024+ KX450, but I like my 2020 KX450, only complaint is initial turn in is not the best, but really good in all other areas after proper setup.
IF he’s able to find/do something that’s he’s been repeatedly unable to do despite having the best equipment in class.
It won’t happen or it would’ve by now.
I have to say my 2020 kx250f was the best bike ive ever ridden! Obviously different to the 450 though
There are several years of data from Chase in qualification. The other riders hasn't changed. Sorry, but they haven't. Jett will still, together with Chase, be the only ones that can put 0.5sec or more on them In qualification. Then you have a mix of 5-6 riders at same lap times swapping positions depending on conditions and bike setup.
You need to be very ignorant not to see, he can't go as fast consistently on the kawi as he was able to on the Honda and KTM.
Is it really the Kawi Team? I think Jorge and Chase are outliers and very unfortunate timing for Kawi. Jorge had never raced a Jap bike previously. Chase is very well known to be extremely picky and wants a perfect setup. Honda, KTM, now Kawi? There's a pattern.
Looking back it's no surprise these two had struggles. It was probably even discussed at length in here for both Jorge and Chase before they started.
Now if a 3rd elite rider in a row has the same problems id say yeah it's a very good chance it's the team haha
Is Eli Tomac elite enough?
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Pit Row
I will give my two cents on this topic.
In my opinion is a combination of things, engine position on the frame, rake angle and kinematics.
The engine position combined with the rake angle is making the bike wanting to go straight and washing the front end all the time once you try to go against its nature, this is why mostly all the fast kawi riders were turning with the rear wheel. All this affects straight up on the rear kinematics as you could see on ET3 bikes being all tailored down. The problem is also internally, on Kawasaki itself not developing as it should.
Nope probably need 5 in a row before blaming the team.
Dude freaking Jorge forced his way out of a multi million guaranteed deal and bet on himself but yeah still not enough to blame the team lol
I know Tomac left not completely happy but man he did pretty damn good at Kawi. I'll admit his starts weren't great though.
Look I don't think Kawi are completely innocent with Jorge and Chase but I don't think it's all their fault. Are they part of the problem? Yes. Was Jorge and now Chase part of the problem? Yes.
Tomac did great on the Kawi.
RV obviously did well on it, Savatgy was awesome on it, AC was fast before his arm/hands started playing up, JA won a bunch on it.
Its basically just Jorge and Chase and unfortunately it's back to back which makes it look worse than what it might actually be. And as I said earlier my opinion is that they could also be seen as outliers because they are both quite unique. Jorge having never raced Jap bikes and Chase having a history of being extremely picky. Again I also said earlier if we get a 3RD ELITE RIDER IN A ROW then I'll accept it's mostly likely the team.
Isn’t it clear it also held Eli back and it’s why he left? He won a lot yea, but could he have won more? Shit just the dnfs alone cost him 2020 easily… junk ass team bro come on…
Shit how much of AC’s arms was trying to go fast on a bike that wasn’t forgiving? Would his arm pump have been how it was if the bike worked better? Ac’s early race pace and then drop off sure looks a lot like Jorge’s did, or Tomacs weirdo rides where he would just be slow…
Ac was a great company man and would never say anything bad about the team or bike, but still doesn’t make it true.
Looks like the team can’t get the riders comfortable and they struggle with arm pump and fatigue and can’t push a whole moto.
It’s consistent across almost all of them.
Weimer spelled it out, Rv struggled but was a beast and did enough to win, Eli struggled but was a beast and did enough to win,
Weimer and Hahn never gelled with it. Jorge, ac couldn’t hold on for a whole moto and we can blame his arms but we never saw him on any other bike so I’m not so convinced of it, sexton…
But yeah it’s the riders …
Agreed, my 2020 was the shit. But I honestly love my 2025 just as much.
I read somewhere that De Coster himself said he didn't know what Chase wanted lol
I agree Tomac couldve won more at Kawi but I think it was more(not all) his inconsistent weirdo rides. Primarily indoors. Random 10ths, tip overs and seemingly no urgency to get going, pants falling down etc. He still has them. Mid season slumps/mild injury whatever they are.
AC is 100% a company man. No doubt. Can we attribute his arm problems were caused by the bike? That's a big stretch man.
Jorge gave up in my opinion. Why he gave up? He wasnt happy with the bike. That's pretty obvious. Was the bike capable of doing much much better? I think so.
Look I'm certain the Kawi team has heaps of flaws but Im pretty sure it isn't 100% their fault.
How much of his weirdo rides were him not comfortable with the bike and getting arm pump…. He literally came out and said that was the reason for his random slow / poor riding. But we don’t believe him.
Brake failures, engine failures, can’t set up the bike, can’t get the balance right, fired the suspension guys who wanted to get the balance right lol.
The team is wild.
Yep I agree with all that. But the thing is he still won 4 championships with them.
His time at Kawi is arguably the best portion of his career. Most individual wins, most titles.
I'm not even a Kawi team/bike fan. I just don't think they are solely to blame.
AC washing that frontend more than chase on that kawi.
Indeed. But the questions still arise as to why Sexton would sign a long-term contract with a team known (if any due diligent research was done) to be inflexible and unwilling to work outside the box other than for purely financial gain...and why would a team sign a rider, even one of Sexton's caliber, knowing (if any due diligent research was done) he was a high-maintenance head case? Seems like a recipe for absolute failure...and a very expensive one.
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