EPO

englishman
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England GB
9/11/2025 8:53am
jmc2 wrote:
Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes...

Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes, etc.

englishman wrote:
When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to...

When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to counter act the blood thickening.

A lot of pros would wear HRM’s to bed with alarms set to go off if BPM went low. 

One of my buddies recounts a story of when the peloton ( he was a pro ) were staying in a hotel during the Vuelta I think it was and one very well known pro was spotted in the middle of the night running up and down the hall to get his BPM up - 100% true story. 

Bjarne Riis had a nickname of “ Mr 60% “ because his hematocrit level was always around 60% , which is insanely dangerous but there we go ..,

A lot of rumor / speculation / hypothesis around HGH abuse and incidences of cancer amongst certain ex pro cyclists.

JazzyJJ wrote:

I also heard they would wake up every hour or two and spin on a spin bike for a bit. Wild times man 

It was insane for sure . Back when EPO came on the scene in a more formalized way there was a team called Gewiss Ballan . I’m not sure of the exact year but would have been ‘93 ish.

Anyway, one of the early season classics ( Liege or  Flèche can’t remember which) the ENTIRE team went to the head of the peloton and just rode off the front.

The most insane thing you’ve ever seen - an entire team ,  no attacking, no tactics, nothing just literally riding the entire peloton off their wheels.

About the same time we watched Frank Vandenbroucke during Flanders attack up a climb like he was on a motorcycle and then solo away . We all looked at each other and said “ no need to test that guy “ . Sure enough he got popped the next week.

All the guys I knew that were on EPO described it :- “ you can’t go hard enough to hurt yourself, it’s like having an unlimited amount of wattage and instant recovery” . 

12
JazzyJJ
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Nunya, WY US
9/11/2025 9:03am
englishman wrote:
When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to...

When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to counter act the blood thickening.

A lot of pros would wear HRM’s to bed with alarms set to go off if BPM went low. 

One of my buddies recounts a story of when the peloton ( he was a pro ) were staying in a hotel during the Vuelta I think it was and one very well known pro was spotted in the middle of the night running up and down the hall to get his BPM up - 100% true story. 

Bjarne Riis had a nickname of “ Mr 60% “ because his hematocrit level was always around 60% , which is insanely dangerous but there we go ..,

A lot of rumor / speculation / hypothesis around HGH abuse and incidences of cancer amongst certain ex pro cyclists.

JazzyJJ wrote:

I also heard they would wake up every hour or two and spin on a spin bike for a bit. Wild times man 

englishman wrote:
It was insane for sure . Back when EPO came on the scene in a more formalized way there was a team called Gewiss Ballan...

It was insane for sure . Back when EPO came on the scene in a more formalized way there was a team called Gewiss Ballan . I’m not sure of the exact year but would have been ‘93 ish.

Anyway, one of the early season classics ( Liege or  Flèche can’t remember which) the ENTIRE team went to the head of the peloton and just rode off the front.

The most insane thing you’ve ever seen - an entire team ,  no attacking, no tactics, nothing just literally riding the entire peloton off their wheels.

About the same time we watched Frank Vandenbroucke during Flanders attack up a climb like he was on a motorcycle and then solo away . We all looked at each other and said “ no need to test that guy “ . Sure enough he got popped the next week.

All the guys I knew that were on EPO described it :- “ you can’t go hard enough to hurt yourself, it’s like having an unlimited amount of wattage and instant recovery” . 

That is wild, makes me wonder what that actually feels like. Must feel like superman

2
OwenJakes
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sebree, KY US
9/11/2025 3:57pm
3strokemx wrote:
The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do...

The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  
This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do more work before getting winded. 

There are benefits for recovery and a little for weight loss as well. 

Altitude tent or living at altitude does the same thing but it's natural and you're less likely to mess up your endocrine system or have a heart attack.
 

OwenJakes wrote:

Very interesting. If you live at elevation do you also develop the thicker blood as well? Correct me if I’m not understanding that rightly. 

3strokemx wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily say thicker blood, but because there is less oxygen available at elevation, their body adapts by having a higher ratio of (oxygenated) red...

I wouldn't necessarily say thicker blood, but because there is less oxygen available at elevation, their body adapts by having a higher ratio of (oxygenated) red blood cells.

The pharmaceutical use of EPO is for people with a ratio of higher white blood cell count, this is often due to chemo therapy or HIV treatments.  The treatment drugs cause cell death, so the red (oxygenated) blood cells don't regenerate as fast as they are used. The EPO is a stop gap measure that props up the body to create more red blood cells.   

Similarly, if you're sick and tested your blood you'd find you have a higher white blood cell count than when you feel well.

EPO probably works great for sport performance, but like any synthetic hormone if you start to disrupt the bodies natural balance you'll run into other issues like heart attacks, gut issues, mood, sleep, etc.  We have very intricate hormone cycles and as far as I've read noone totally understand them.  

Unfortunately diabetes is very common so people are aware of insulin, which is also used as a pharmaceutical hormone therapy. I've heard of athletes using insulin to help lose weight but the cost is a wide range of health consequences in the coming years, like developing diabetes as their natural production of insulin drops off.

Natural strategies that enhance Red Blood Cell ratio include:
Training at aerobic threshold, this is where you just start to get out of breath, (General heart rate range is 220 - your age = X,    Threshold Range =  X*.91 to X*.95)
Living at altitude, usually 4 weeks minimum.
Chlorophyll supplement (the structure of chlorophyll is eerily similar to blood, and it contains copper which is necessary to utilize iron to make RBC)
Drinking blood 
Eating liver

LMAO DRINKING BLOOD😂😂 hahahaha I’m sure someone’s done it. 

I’m already doing all of the rest of that so I may be peaking already. You did just sell me a chlorophyll supplement though so someone owes you commission ahah. 

Thank you for the wildly interesting and informative responses 

2
1

The Shop

MotoDad32
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239
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Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
9/12/2025 3:52am
Gary Duck wrote:
I don't know which UpTiTe you be, but I find it humorous that over and over this subject comes up and you continue to explain it...

I don't know which UpTiTe you be, but I find it humorous that over and over this subject comes up and you continue to explain it, yet the masses think you're making shit up or something. It's so obvious if you're paying attention that it shouldn't need any explanation. 

No shit.  Exactly what I think every time this comes up.  Lol.

3strokemx
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US
9/12/2025 5:26am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2025 8:05am
JazzyJJ wrote:

I also heard they would wake up every hour or two and spin on a spin bike for a bit. Wild times man 

englishman wrote:
It was insane for sure . Back when EPO came on the scene in a more formalized way there was a team called Gewiss Ballan...

It was insane for sure . Back when EPO came on the scene in a more formalized way there was a team called Gewiss Ballan . I’m not sure of the exact year but would have been ‘93 ish.

Anyway, one of the early season classics ( Liege or  Flèche can’t remember which) the ENTIRE team went to the head of the peloton and just rode off the front.

The most insane thing you’ve ever seen - an entire team ,  no attacking, no tactics, nothing just literally riding the entire peloton off their wheels.

About the same time we watched Frank Vandenbroucke during Flanders attack up a climb like he was on a motorcycle and then solo away . We all looked at each other and said “ no need to test that guy “ . Sure enough he got popped the next week.

All the guys I knew that were on EPO described it :- “ you can’t go hard enough to hurt yourself, it’s like having an unlimited amount of wattage and instant recovery” . 

JazzyJJ wrote:

That is wild, makes me wonder what that actually feels like. Must feel like superman

I did 1 bicycle race season in an altitude tent.  The tent increased hematocrit by ~4%. It didn't change the feeling, I just noticed more people tapping out around me while I kept going.

I don't have first hand experience with the illegal stuff but people that raced with Lance told me the year he went from regular to super he was calling everyone pussies and complained that they weren't trying.  Which seems to be similar with my experience, not feeling enhanced, it just seemed like everyone else was getting tired earlier.

I spent winter 2019 in the tent again but the 2020 season got cancelled.
I was in great shape, that summer I had a lot of fun riding my regular mtb with my friends on their e-bikes.

With no cycling races planned I started riding motocross again and at first I would get arm pump immediately!   So boosting hematocrit isn't effective on it's own, you still have to put some work in.




 

8
3strokemx
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US
9/12/2025 5:58am
OwenJakes wrote:
LMAO DRINKING BLOOD😂😂 hahahaha I’m sure someone’s done it. I’m already doing all of the rest of that so I may be peaking already. You did just...

LMAO DRINKING BLOOD😂😂 hahahaha I’m sure someone’s done it. 

I’m already doing all of the rest of that so I may be peaking already. You did just sell me a chlorophyll supplement though so someone owes you commission ahah. 

Thank you for the wildly interesting and informative responses 

You're asking good questions!   I'm happy to share what I've learned, hopefully it cuts down on some of the noise and confusion that we have regarding Health and Food in our society and can benefit others as much as I've benefitted. 

Drinking blood is a staple food of the Maasai and Tutsi peoples, probably many other cultures too.
Blood pudding used to be a popular westerner dish,  but I suspect eating blood and organs fell out of favor as industrial farming degraded the health of livestock.  

Here's something wildly interesting related to hormones!
 Babies' hormones are influenced and/or created by the mothers' breast milk.  For example, feeding milk from the morning to a baby at night will disrupt the baby's circadian rhythm and lead to poor sleep.
🤯

6
1
Goon645
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Fantasy
9/12/2025 7:42am

Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so close. Who has a history of cheating. Who didnt race the nations due to a laughable excuse (a lie) but is now racing it in his home country where the same anti doping agency is used as his national series unlike WADA which operates at MXGP events. 

3
1
colonel
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La Massana AD
9/12/2025 8:36am
jmc2 wrote:
Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes...

Did a research project on EPO many years ago and one of concerns is  that it can lead to increased blood viscosity causing , clotting,  strokes, etc.

englishman wrote:
When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to...

When pro cyclists first started taking it there were a lot of deaths during sleep. They hadn’t figured out you had to take blood thinners to counter act the blood thickening.

A lot of pros would wear HRM’s to bed with alarms set to go off if BPM went low. 

One of my buddies recounts a story of when the peloton ( he was a pro ) were staying in a hotel during the Vuelta I think it was and one very well known pro was spotted in the middle of the night running up and down the hall to get his BPM up - 100% true story. 

Bjarne Riis had a nickname of “ Mr 60% “ because his hematocrit level was always around 60% , which is insanely dangerous but there we go ..,

A lot of rumor / speculation / hypothesis around HGH abuse and incidences of cancer amongst certain ex pro cyclists.

JazzyJJ wrote:

I also heard they would wake up every hour or two and spin on a spin bike for a bit. Wild times man 

Never believe everything you read and hear

FreshTopEnd
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Sacramento, CA US
9/12/2025 9:06am
Goon645 wrote:
Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so...

Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so close. Who has a history of cheating. Who didnt race the nations due to a laughable excuse (a lie) but is now racing it in his home country where the same anti doping agency is used as his national series unlike WADA which operates at MXGP events. 

USADA conforms to WADA.  The MXDN is an FIM event.  Labs for both have to meet the same certification requirements.

 

3
JazzyJJ
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Nunya, WY US
9/12/2025 9:11am
Goon645 wrote:
Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so...

Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so close. Who has a history of cheating. Who didnt race the nations due to a laughable excuse (a lie) but is now racing it in his home country where the same anti doping agency is used as his national series unlike WADA which operates at MXGP events. 

USADA conforms to WADA.  The MXDN is an FIM event.  Labs for both have to meet the same certification requirements.

 

In theory, yes. How much testing actually gets done in moto?

GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX US
9/12/2025 10:41am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2025 10:43am
Goon645 wrote:
Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so...

Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so close. Who has a history of cheating. Who didnt race the nations due to a laughable excuse (a lie) but is now racing it in his home country where the same anti doping agency is used as his national series unlike WADA which operates at MXGP events. 

USADA conforms to WADA.  The MXDN is an FIM event.  Labs for both have to meet the same certification requirements.

 

Our national series doesn't use USADA anymore, they have their own program administered by an independent lab. I would assume MXoN is under WADA though?

1
FreshTopEnd
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Location
Sacramento, CA US
9/12/2025 10:54am
Goon645 wrote:
Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so...

Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so close. Who has a history of cheating. Who didnt race the nations due to a laughable excuse (a lie) but is now racing it in his home country where the same anti doping agency is used as his national series unlike WADA which operates at MXGP events. 

USADA conforms to WADA.  The MXDN is an FIM event.  Labs for both have to meet the same certification requirements.

 

JazzyJJ wrote:

In theory, yes. How much testing actually gets done in moto?

It's a crap shoot.  

1
8tensolutions
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Salt Lake City, UT US
9/12/2025 11:10am
Goon645 wrote:
Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so...

Who isn't necessarily the fastest but always wins races in the latter stages, especially outdoors where endurance is the defining factor when skill level is so close. Who has a history of cheating. Who didnt race the nations due to a laughable excuse (a lie) but is now racing it in his home country where the same anti doping agency is used as his national series unlike WADA which operates at MXGP events. 

USADA conforms to WADA.  The MXDN is an FIM event.  Labs for both have to meet the same certification requirements.

 

GrapeApe wrote:

Our national series doesn't use USADA anymore, they have their own program administered by an independent lab. I would assume MXoN is under WADA though?

MXoN is under WADA rules.  It's an FIM event.  Not sure they test there though?

FreshTopEnd
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9/12/2025 12:03pm
GrapeApe wrote:

Our national series doesn't use USADA anymore, they have their own program administered by an independent lab. I would assume MXoN is under WADA though?

I hadn't kept up, thank you.  On the penalty side I think this is a good move.   One of the issues with the WADA penalty regime is that it is the same for all sports regardless of the frequency of competition and the effect a suspension has.  An athlete competing in the Olympics might recover a career in the context of a 4 year ban, but a 4 year ban effectively ends a career in MX.

 

Just skimming the new system it does seem like there could be more defined penalties even if scaled back from the rigid WADA system.  It seems to essentially discretionary.  But that's a quick read and may be wrong on that.

1
mxaniac
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Airway Heights, WA US
9/12/2025 1:35pm
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

UpTiTe wrote:
Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it.  EPO is impossible to find in a piss test...

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap up. I was told gate drops on adderall is a whole other experience. Pretty much everyone has a TUE, the exception is those not using it.

1
1
Tyler D
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La, CA US
9/12/2025 10:57pm

using stuff well beyond epo now. thats old hat. 

1
9/12/2025 11:05pm

Do they test for EPO right now.. what are the chances the top guys are taking it? I’m giving minimum 50 percent chance. 

UpTiTe wrote:
With today’s technology, trainers understanding it better, and the way they test, it’s almost impossible to catch someone using EPO.  And you 50% chance is about 50%...

With today’s technology, trainers understanding it better, and the way they test, it’s almost impossible to catch someone using EPO. 
 

And you 50% chance is about 50% to low.  A lot of guys are using it. 
 

That mx dr explained it in detail it’s virtually impossible to test positive if done correctly. Mx  is like the 88 Olympics now. 

1
2
colonel
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La Massana AD
9/13/2025 12:46am
3strokemx wrote:
The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do...

The primary goal with it is to increase hematocrit (red blood cells).  
This creates a bigger supply of oxygen to your muscles, so you can do more work before getting winded. 

There are benefits for recovery and a little for weight loss as well. 

Altitude tent or living at altitude does the same thing but it's natural and you're less likely to mess up your endocrine system or have a heart attack.
 

OwenJakes wrote:

Very interesting. If you live at elevation do you also develop the thicker blood as well? Correct me if I’m not understanding that rightly. 

3strokemx wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily say thicker blood, but because there is less oxygen available at elevation, their body adapts by having a higher ratio of (oxygenated) red...

I wouldn't necessarily say thicker blood, but because there is less oxygen available at elevation, their body adapts by having a higher ratio of (oxygenated) red blood cells.

The pharmaceutical use of EPO is for people with a ratio of higher white blood cell count, this is often due to chemo therapy or HIV treatments.  The treatment drugs cause cell death, so the red (oxygenated) blood cells don't regenerate as fast as they are used. The EPO is a stop gap measure that props up the body to create more red blood cells.   

Similarly, if you're sick and tested your blood you'd find you have a higher white blood cell count than when you feel well.

EPO probably works great for sport performance, but like any synthetic hormone if you start to disrupt the bodies natural balance you'll run into other issues like heart attacks, gut issues, mood, sleep, etc.  We have very intricate hormone cycles and as far as I've read noone totally understand them.  

Unfortunately diabetes is very common so people are aware of insulin, which is also used as a pharmaceutical hormone therapy. I've heard of athletes using insulin to help lose weight but the cost is a wide range of health consequences in the coming years, like developing diabetes as their natural production of insulin drops off.

Natural strategies that enhance Red Blood Cell ratio include:
Training at aerobic threshold, this is where you just start to get out of breath, (General heart rate range is 220 - your age = X,    Threshold Range =  X*.91 to X*.95)
Living at altitude, usually 4 weeks minimum.
Chlorophyll supplement (the structure of chlorophyll is eerily similar to blood, and it contains copper which is necessary to utilize iron to make RBC)
Drinking blood 
Eating liver

Drinking blood - Ive never heard more bullshit in my life. 
This does more harm than any good for a human. We not animals mate. 

220 - less age is totally flawed. It came from limited data in the 1970's and not from a large scale scientific study.
It does not account for individual differences in the human population like genetics for example 
Therefore it is miscalculated and your zones are incorrect which can lead to training incorrectly on both ends, easy and hard training. 
Fitness level, sex, body size, and training history all influence this and some endurance athletes for example maintain a higher Max HR into the older years.
The reason are huge for this being flawed. 

If you want to use a calculation use Tanaka (2001) and also Gellish (2007) 
207-0.7 x Age
208-0.7 x Age

Simple ways to naturally increase is Iron supplementation, ViTB12 & folate and a simple process of just exercising and increasing blood volume in the body and this over time adapt with increased RBC mass. 
EPO and Growth Hormone are all part of regulated sleep and when being well hydrated during this also increases, when dehydrated which lowers plasma volume and makes HCT appear higher, but correct TBC production depends largely on being hydrated. 

Yes, Altitude exposure increases HCT but you will see changes after 14 days, HCT is not the only outcome for altitude, you looking at Haemoglobin mass, plasma volume to name a few which changes happen as said from day 14, however you need to be exposed at 2000m+. In some cases you won't see HCT increas but other parameters do. 

The key point for EPO is recovery, if as an athlete you can recover quicker and also handle more stress load on the body, your adaptation to training is greater. Resulting in improved form and fitness. 

2
1
Timo
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Wichita, KS US
9/13/2025 5:03am
mxaniac wrote:
When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap...

When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap up. I was told gate drops on adderall is a whole other experience. Pretty much everyone has a TUE, the exception is those not using it.

I take Adderall and forgot to take my pill last weekend before the start, I couldn't tell much difference other than my thoughts wondered a bit more in the second hour. 

 

9/13/2025 5:24am
mxaniac wrote:
When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap...

When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap up. I was told gate drops on adderall is a whole other experience. Pretty much everyone has a TUE, the exception is those not using it.

Timo wrote:
I take Adderall and forgot to take my pill last weekend before the start, I couldn't tell much difference other than my thoughts wondered a bit...

I take Adderall and forgot to take my pill last weekend before the start, I couldn't tell much difference other than my thoughts wondered a bit more in the second hour. 

 

Do you take it because you need it or because you want the performance enhancing benefits? I assume there’s a difference when using it as a performance enhancing drug verses taking because you actually need it. 

3strokemx
Posts
2436
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Location
US
9/13/2025 9:22am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2025 9:25am
colonel wrote:
Drinking blood - Ive never heard more bullshit in my life. This does more harm than any good for a human. We not animals mate. 220 - less...

Drinking blood - Ive never heard more bullshit in my life. 
This does more harm than any good for a human. We not animals mate. 

220 - less age is totally flawed. It came from limited data in the 1970's and not from a large scale scientific study.
It does not account for individual differences in the human population like genetics for example 
Therefore it is miscalculated and your zones are incorrect which can lead to training incorrectly on both ends, easy and hard training. 
Fitness level, sex, body size, and training history all influence this and some endurance athletes for example maintain a higher Max HR into the older years.
The reason are huge for this being flawed. 

If you want to use a calculation use Tanaka (2001) and also Gellish (2007) 
207-0.7 x Age
208-0.7 x Age

Simple ways to naturally increase is Iron supplementation, ViTB12 & folate and a simple process of just exercising and increasing blood volume in the body and this over time adapt with increased RBC mass. 
EPO and Growth Hormone are all part of regulated sleep and when being well hydrated during this also increases, when dehydrated which lowers plasma volume and makes HCT appear higher, but correct TBC production depends largely on being hydrated. 

Yes, Altitude exposure increases HCT but you will see changes after 14 days, HCT is not the only outcome for altitude, you looking at Haemoglobin mass, plasma volume to name a few which changes happen as said from day 14, however you need to be exposed at 2000m+. In some cases you won't see HCT increas but other parameters do. 

The key point for EPO is recovery, if as an athlete you can recover quicker and also handle more stress load on the body, your adaptation to training is greater. Resulting in improved form and fitness. 

I'm pretty sure humans are animals. 🤣   

IMG 9060.jpeg?VersionId=GU7.ts
1
Timo
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Wichita, KS US
9/13/2025 8:01pm
mxaniac wrote:
When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap...

When I mentioned the masking the down votes were brutal. All my information comes from former national level racers I know, I wouldn't must make crap up. I was told gate drops on adderall is a whole other experience. Pretty much everyone has a TUE, the exception is those not using it.

Timo wrote:
I take Adderall and forgot to take my pill last weekend before the start, I couldn't tell much difference other than my thoughts wondered a bit...

I take Adderall and forgot to take my pill last weekend before the start, I couldn't tell much difference other than my thoughts wondered a bit more in the second hour. 

 

Benhameen wrote:
Do you take it because you need it or because you want the performance enhancing benefits? I assume there’s a difference when using it as a...

Do you take it because you need it or because you want the performance enhancing benefits? I assume there’s a difference when using it as a performance enhancing drug verses taking because you actually need it. 

I have ADHD, it keeps my intrusive thoughts away. It also helps with focus, but keeping the random thoughts of driving my van off a bridge is why I take it. They've done studies on college age people and any performance increase if you don't need it for ADHD is matched by placebo. I'd think some of its side affects would not be ideal for racing professionally as well.

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Vet57
Posts
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12/13/2010
Location
BRO Town, MA US
9/14/2025 1:40am

Excuse my ignorance on the subject but wondering if taking Testosterone would improve performance on the track ?

9/14/2025 3:42am

It is obvious when looking back to see when it entered  MX/SX.  

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9/14/2025 6:48am
JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which...

JS pissed hot for adderall in 2014 and was suspended, so obviously they do test for PEDs. It’s ideal to have a clean sport in which winners are winners and losers are losers, no excuses and no advantages.

UpTiTe wrote:
Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it.  EPO is impossible to find in a piss test...

Adderall is easy to find n a piss test, and you only need a TUE to use it. 

 EPO is impossible to find in a piss test, and just about impossible to find in a blood test. 

The other stuff can be masked in different ways, the most common is secretion inhibitors, and micro dosing.

A little hint, secretion inhibitors cause stomach problems, like IBS and food poisoning symptoms. Look at all the guys who have had stomach issues since 2000.  Our sport is just as dirty as every other sport. 

Gary Duck wrote:
I don't know which UpTiTe you be, but I find it humorous that over and over this subject comes up and you continue to explain it...

I don't know which UpTiTe you be, but I find it humorous that over and over this subject comes up and you continue to explain it, yet the masses think you're making shit up or something. It's so obvious if you're paying attention that it shouldn't need any explanation. 

I don't know who he is either, but if "one" of the back rows at a local/regional level nothing hare scramble over half the guys admitting to some sort PED use with absolutely no money on the line. It would be foolish to think that when millions are on the line that some sort of PED use isn't happening.

3strokemx
Posts
2436
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Location
US
9/14/2025 8:07am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2025 11:25am
Vet57 wrote:

Excuse my ignorance on the subject but wondering if taking Testosterone would improve performance on the track ?

I think Yes but It depends on the person and the area they are trying to improve. 

The benefits are increased strength, muscle mass, reduced fat, quicker recovery.

Motocross is more dynamic than many activities. 

Motocross requires strength, but the strongest guy doesn't always win.  
There's a sweet spot where you need to be strong enough, but being even stronger doesn't help you become a better rider. 

Too much muscle mass might actually be a detriment, notice how no pro racers look like body builders? Even the famed Tyler Evans looked small in comparison to the biggest guy at your local gym.

For younger MX riders I think the primary benefit of T would be faster injury recovery.
For older MX riders I think the benefits would be more energy overall, faster recovery, and better eye sight (eye muscles tend to get lazy as men age and T declines).

As with any hormone, there is a huge risk of disrupting your natural hormone cycles.  Especially cancer, heart attack, mood swings, suicide risk, poor sleep, on and on.  Seems like it's pretty easy for men over 50 to get prescribed T, so I'm confident there are members here using it. 

There are non pharmaceutical ways to change your Testosterone, probably not as dramatic as the injections though.
 I use "might" and "probably" because there are many differences between individuals so results vary.

-Alcohol, for women their Testosterone goes up after a few drinks, for men it goes down (whiskey dick).
-Tobacco and Caffeine, especially combined, increase T.  If abused (used daily) it might actually make your T go down over time.
-Lifting heavy stuff and doing short intense workout will increase T.  Endurance running/cycling can make it go down if you go "medium" the whole time. Going at a casual pace is great, interspersing high intensity is good, grinding 2+h at a Medium pace is possibly doing more harm than good for your T level.  
-KAATSU / Blood flow restricting training,  basically using a tourniquet to restrict blood flow to legs or arms while doing an easy work out. Simulates high intensity excercise with a quick and easy work out. Often used when injured to decrease recovery time.  For example, KAATSU lifting 5lb dumbells (with your arms) can help with knee recovery due to the release of growth hormones.

Overall Endocrine/Hormonal Health:
-Eating whole animals (sardines, oysters, eggs, etc) and organ meats, especially testicles can increase T and endocrine health. (there are supplements so you don't have to eat balls, make sure the supplements don't contain fillers)
-Industrially grown foods and processed foods cause endocrine system disruption, soy is one in particular with a lot of studies linking to low testosterone. Most restaurant foods are prepared with seed oils (soybean, rapeseed/canola, cottonseed oil). You'll want to cook with saturated fats to maintain hormonal health. (Saturated fats are solids when not heated, Lard, Tallow, Butter, Ghee)
-Blue light after dark, the wave frequency of blue light (TV, Phone,blue lights on the outside of your camper) signals your body that the sun is rising and you need energy for the day. If you're seeing blue/white lights in the evening then your endocrine system is disrupted and your T will suffer. 
 

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