So after hearing a lot of complaints about the 24’ yz450f I was wondering if the updated 250f was going to have problems too. After watching the MXA review of the new 250 I completely expected them to say it was the greatest bike ever, no problems at all, and its absolutely perfect. You know how a lot of guys dont wanna rock the boat. Its funny because most of the time the only way to get an honest review about a model year bike is to watch next years review where they say what problems the old bike had and how the new bike fixed them. I always wish they had just told us that stuff the year before….
Well MXA pulled absolutely no punches here and its kinda not looking good. They had a couple guys try the bike and everybody said it was surprising how much worse it was than the previous bike. This was the most critical review I ever remember seeing and it was a breath of fresh air, but at the same time I was shocked. The new bike uses all of the same parts from the 450 just with the 250 engine bolted in with different engine hangars and a new air boot. Could this mean trouble for the star boys next year? It looks like KTM wont be the only team chasing settings, and also wont be the only team who had an essentially perfect bike and then completely went in a different direction. I have faith in yamaha and especially star, but having an all new bike that has teething problems could really make next year a lot more interesting and shake up the class even more. What do you guys think?
Its a learning year.
If I race for any 250 team I’m wishing for east coast first year on a new model. Will be the same for Kawasaki in 25.
Star will literally do whatever it takes to make the bike competitive. Plus think of it like this, a stock bike that performs well in shootouts can be difficult for a factory team (KTM most recently) to find good settings for. The opposite is also true. A bike that performs poorly in shootouts can still be a great bike with the right tweaks from a team. I do agree however, that they will probably be chasing some settings for a while before establishing a good base.
I wouldn't worry about it. Some people think Hondas are too twitchy yet Keefer swears Jett's bike is the easiest thing to ride on the planet. The teams will figure it out
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Surprised they didn't update the engine other than putting a heavier timing chain on it. It's down alot of power and torque compared to the Austrian and Kawis. But I guess that means they didn't put that dumb design from the 450 that vents the crank case becn into the intake
Nobody will buy it if it was unchanged. KTM's 450 was winning championships so they went ahead and fixed it until it was fucked, now it's Yamahas turn. But since the press release includes words like "all new, compact, horsepower, lightweight, torsional rigidity, rider triangle" everyone will run out and buy one.
But seriously I hope it's competitive next year. Shimoda could be the guy to beat on 250.
Kenny is making a bike that has bad reviews look good
Swapmoto guys had the same thoughts as the mxa crew also.
1 thing that I think Josh might be missing, when he said the thicker cam chain making it feel less snappy. That probably is some of the reason but I honestly think it has more to do with the less-direct air intake. It no longer has that absolute straight downdraft that the 21-23 has. Think of how big of a deal Yamaha and tests made on the intake changes from the 20 to the 21 250F. And it was a pretty minor change to the 21 but made a big difference. The 24, which pulls from the rear, is probably less efficient. Maybe the strides they took in the bodywork/ergos came at the cost of direct airflow.
As far as the chassis, I think the complaints are about what I expected. Certainly gain some cornering at the expense of stability. I think the 21+ chassis was spot on. I never understood the complaints. The bike turns great, while offering stability. Plus it's easy and consistent on set-up.
I don't think the new bike going to be a bad. It's still the bike I will get when the time comes. But I think they took the bike in a direction slightly away from what I would've asked for, as far as chassis. And certainly it just sounds like some give and take in some areas.
Interesting, our video is going up in lil bit. Personally, I found the new chassis offers less comfort and was a bit tricky with front end bias to setup, but after some balance changes I was pretty happy with overall corner performance. For me, corner entry was better, mid corner a lil worse and corner exit was about same as old model.
Wait, I thought MXA loved the 23 450? I’m not aware of any issues?
Its unfortunate because the progression of that ktm was magical. From 2013 to 2022 every year they were knocking off a little bit of metal here, straightening this port over there, shaving the plastics down a little bit in a bunch of places and by 2022 the bike had reached the perfect final form of what they had been working towards for a decade. You can flip through each year and watch the bike slowly get lighter, tighter, and completely refined. Then for 2023 they crumpled it all up and said fuck all that noise.
The yamaha has been on a pretty incredible journey as well from the first reversed cylinder “blue pig” 450 that would toss riders into the cheap seats, to really starting to get it sorted out and then transferring the ip to the 250. The problem was that the bad reputation had stayed with the 450 much longer than was warranted because the bike had been completely turned around years before ferrandis and then tomac finally changed the perception. It seems like yamaha has a really solid new platform that just has the usual growing pains vs ktm which seems to actually be a flawed (race) bike. It seemed that by the end of this year they had already gotten the bike straightened out for dylan and I’m sure theyll transfer that knowledge to the 250. That being said it definitely isnt going to help star having to chase some settings on a new bike, but that could really help make the next season even more interesting than it already will be. Especially with jo moving over to a super dialed but apparently down on hp crf250.
Just sold my 23 / 450 - came home with a BN 22. Good luck with this mistress.
Very similar reaction to the ‘24 KX250F in handling. Sounds like it’s something about using a 450 frame with a 250 motor, since he stressed similar handling problems in both vids.(https://youtu.be/guMLWy10Ruw?si=MZt_6jVXo-Je8xCA) It also sounds like Yamaha overdid it on the cam chain and sprockets. Surely, companies will use a different/ lighter setup, which will help with the engine bog (unless the production rule prevents that).
It wasn’t fully negative, but Josh looked very offput. He had that unpleasant look of “What happened?” Lol
Is slapping a 250 motor in a 450 frame the best way to build a bike? There was a short video earlier this year maybe in MXA where a vet KX250 rider mounted a 5 lb. weight in the open space in front of his motor. MXA guys said it worked to solve the handling issues he had been chasing.
Maybe not the best but a helluva lot cheaper that way
It’s a shame. It used to be that 250s would get all the 450 frame updates and changes, but in a 250f chassis. Sounds like the 250 handling issues have to do with the lighter 250 engine have its rotating mass further back (toward the swingarm) than the 450.
I don't think there's a single manufacturer that makes separate 250f and 450f frames
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Mmm, TM Fantic and probably Beta.
Even though the OEMs are doing it, doesn’t mean it works better than a 250f engine in a 250f frame.
But it’s the way it is today.
Kawasaki doesn't use their 450 frame in their 250, their 250 frame is it's own frame.
Suzuki and Kawasaki still produce different frames for their 250s and their 450s.
Honda, Yamaha, KTM, GasGas, and Husky use the same frame for their 250s and 450s.
I don't think they were blasting it as much as they were saying they just couldn't get the setup sorted out.
If teams really had to change cam chain in 1.6 hours!? they sure over done it now. I would say it was more in mapping/track than cam chain he felt and old bike had 50 hours that will free up motor.
They'll take a learning lesson.
Curious if you back-to-back tested this against the 2023 bike on the same track/day to gather this conclusion?
MXA said the last few years the KX250 is now using the 450 frame. I think they said since '21. Not saying you are wrong but I was under the impression it was the same frame because of their tests. And they kind of made a big deal about it (in a negative way.) It looks like it's the case, with a decent-sized gap in the front part of the frame cradle. But it's possible that they are wrong.
The geometry is the same but supposedly the wall thickness of some of the tubes is different to give it a different flex. I asked Keefer about the MXA comments on the KX250, and he told me the fork is too stiff and once you get that fixed the bike turns fine.
Suzuki made a new frame with space for a center port exhaust for the 250 but not the 450.
I thought the same thing, reviews were good in the magazines.
On Suzuki the frame, swing arm, triple clamps, suspension front & rear are all different.
im Pretty sure 98% of us, myself included, couldn’t tell the difference if we bought a 24 after having the 23
OTHER than a new fresh bike is always nice
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