One rule I don't understand

Edited Date/Time 6/14/2017 6:13am
Why are bikes older than 5 years old banned from racing supercross?
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hvaughn88
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3/4/2017 5:42am
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
Johnny Ringo
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3/4/2017 5:43am
Because this is a professional sport
JBecker 72
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3/4/2017 6:04am
It's a conspiracy to keep Ronnie Mac out of SX.
3/4/2017 6:13am
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage but I couldn't think of any.

The Shop

3/4/2017 6:24am
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
gpnewhouse wrote:
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage...
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage but I couldn't think of any.
Steal frames bro. Steal frames.
hvaughn88
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3/4/2017 6:28am
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
gpnewhouse wrote:
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage...
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage but I couldn't think of any.
Steal frames bro. Steal frames.
From who?Tongue
3/4/2017 6:29am
gpnewhouse wrote:
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage...
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage but I couldn't think of any.
Steal frames bro. Steal frames.
hvaughn88 wrote:
From who?Tongue
1993 cr 250s. It's a conspiracy man.
71Fish
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3/4/2017 7:03am
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
gpnewhouse wrote:
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage...
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage but I couldn't think of any.
Steal frames bro. Steal frames.
Seems to happen once or twice every year, usually Atlanta or Detroit.
mx317
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3/4/2017 8:05am
gpnewhouse wrote:
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage...
Ah that makes sense, I thought for them to ban older bikes there must be a way someone could use an old bike to their advantage but I couldn't think of any.
Steal frames bro. Steal frames.
71Fish wrote:
Seems to happen once or twice every year, usually Atlanta or Detroit.
Whole bikes too!
loftyair
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3/4/2017 8:32am
5 years? I thought it was 2!
Katoomey
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3/4/2017 8:47am
first of all, banned is the wrong word, they aren't "banned".

no where in the rules does it say that a bike that is 5 years old cannot be homologated. Nor does it say that a bike cannot be re-homologated after 5 years.

the only thing it says, absolutely, is that homologation lasts until it no longer complies with the rules or 5 years.

I'm not saying they would homologate an old bike. They disclaim that homologation is up to their discretion anyway, which is sort of blanket statement that pretty much means they don't have to approve shit if they dont want to.


from the AMA pro motocross rules section;

3.1 Motorcycle Homologation

Motorcycles used in motocross competition require homologation approval granted by AMA Pro Racing prior to
use in competition. Homologation rules are intended to give freedom to modify or replace some of the parts in the
interest of safety, research and development, with constraints imposed to limit cost. Superseded or redesigned
parts must be submitted to AMA Pro Racing for review and approval prior to use in competition. These parts must
be listed in the current OEM parts list supplied to AMA Pro Racing.

a. Only motorcycles homologated by AMA Pro Racing may be used in competition. AMA Pro Racing will only
accept applications for homologation from motorcycle manufacturers or their distributors.

b. Once a motorcycle has been homologated, it may be used until such time that the homologated motorcycle
no longer complies with the technical rules or a maximum of five (5) years.

c. Compliance with homologation requirements will not guarantee AMA Pro Racing homologation approval.
Homologation may be withheld or withdrawn for just cause deemed in the best interest of the sport by AMA
Pro Racing.

d. Homologation procedure and information is available from the AMA Pro Racing Technical Department.



OW38B
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3/4/2017 9:32am
Katoomey wrote:
first of all, banned is the wrong word, they aren't "banned". no where in the rules does it say that a bike that is 5 years...
first of all, banned is the wrong word, they aren't "banned".

no where in the rules does it say that a bike that is 5 years old cannot be homologated. Nor does it say that a bike cannot be re-homologated after 5 years.

the only thing it says, absolutely, is that homologation lasts until it no longer complies with the rules or 5 years.

I'm not saying they would homologate an old bike. They disclaim that homologation is up to their discretion anyway, which is sort of blanket statement that pretty much means they don't have to approve shit if they dont want to.


from the AMA pro motocross rules section;

3.1 Motorcycle Homologation

Motorcycles used in motocross competition require homologation approval granted by AMA Pro Racing prior to
use in competition. Homologation rules are intended to give freedom to modify or replace some of the parts in the
interest of safety, research and development, with constraints imposed to limit cost. Superseded or redesigned
parts must be submitted to AMA Pro Racing for review and approval prior to use in competition. These parts must
be listed in the current OEM parts list supplied to AMA Pro Racing.

a. Only motorcycles homologated by AMA Pro Racing may be used in competition. AMA Pro Racing will only
accept applications for homologation from motorcycle manufacturers or their distributors.

b. Once a motorcycle has been homologated, it may be used until such time that the homologated motorcycle
no longer complies with the technical rules or a maximum of five (5) years.

c. Compliance with homologation requirements will not guarantee AMA Pro Racing homologation approval.
Homologation may be withheld or withdrawn for just cause deemed in the best interest of the sport by AMA
Pro Racing.

d. Homologation procedure and information is available from the AMA Pro Racing Technical Department.



"b. Once a motorcycle has been homologated, it may be used until such time that the homologated motorcycle
no longer complies with the technical rules or a maximum of five (5) years."

The way I read it, they are "banned" after five years and would not be eligible to race after that time no matter what.

Just like 250cc two strokes in the 250cc class, they are not eligible, therefore, by extension they are banned.
Starcrossed
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3/4/2017 9:35am
loftyair wrote:
5 years? I thought it was 2!
That's how many years' models that the manufacturers will pay contingency for. Current or previous year models only qualify for contingency.
51xc
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3/4/2017 10:28am
the true reason: because it's about selling new products. sport is just really entertaining advertisement. like it or not...
rrjr
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3/4/2017 11:04am
Katoomey wrote:
first of all, banned is the wrong word, they aren't "banned". no where in the rules does it say that a bike that is 5 years...
first of all, banned is the wrong word, they aren't "banned".

no where in the rules does it say that a bike that is 5 years old cannot be homologated. Nor does it say that a bike cannot be re-homologated after 5 years.

the only thing it says, absolutely, is that homologation lasts until it no longer complies with the rules or 5 years.

I'm not saying they would homologate an old bike. They disclaim that homologation is up to their discretion anyway, which is sort of blanket statement that pretty much means they don't have to approve shit if they dont want to.


from the AMA pro motocross rules section;

3.1 Motorcycle Homologation

Motorcycles used in motocross competition require homologation approval granted by AMA Pro Racing prior to
use in competition. Homologation rules are intended to give freedom to modify or replace some of the parts in the
interest of safety, research and development, with constraints imposed to limit cost. Superseded or redesigned
parts must be submitted to AMA Pro Racing for review and approval prior to use in competition. These parts must
be listed in the current OEM parts list supplied to AMA Pro Racing.

a. Only motorcycles homologated by AMA Pro Racing may be used in competition. AMA Pro Racing will only
accept applications for homologation from motorcycle manufacturers or their distributors.

b. Once a motorcycle has been homologated, it may be used until such time that the homologated motorcycle
no longer complies with the technical rules or a maximum of five (5) years.

c. Compliance with homologation requirements will not guarantee AMA Pro Racing homologation approval.
Homologation may be withheld or withdrawn for just cause deemed in the best interest of the sport by AMA
Pro Racing.

d. Homologation procedure and information is available from the AMA Pro Racing Technical Department.



OW38B wrote:
"b. Once a motorcycle has been homologated, it may be used until such time that the homologated motorcycle no longer complies with the technical rules [b]or...
"b. Once a motorcycle has been homologated, it may be used until such time that the homologated motorcycle
no longer complies with the technical rules or a maximum of five (5) years."

The way I read it, they are "banned" after five years and would not be eligible to race after that time no matter what.

Just like 250cc two strokes in the 250cc class, they are not eligible, therefore, by extension they are banned.
Bikes older than 5 years are not "banned". However, no manufacturer is going to take the time and expense to put a 5 year old bike through homologation again. Their objective with racing is to promote and sell new models.
3/4/2017 11:06am
51xc wrote:
the true reason: because it's about selling new products. sport is just really entertaining advertisement. like it or not...
I know that but I wondered what the official reason was, it's not like a privateer is going to be at an advantage by racing an older bike.
OW38B
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3/4/2017 11:14am
rrjr wrote:
Bikes older than 5 years are not "banned". However, no manufacturer is going to take the time and expense to put a 5 year old bike...
Bikes older than 5 years are not "banned". However, no manufacturer is going to take the time and expense to put a 5 year old bike through homologation again. Their objective with racing is to promote and sell new models.
I'm not sure you understand then what "homologation" is and it's intent.

A manufacturer would have to make 500 units of said year bike (over 5 years) to be eligible for for re-homologation and that makes no sense when said bike has already been thru the process.

But like always say "the AMA has never been accused of being smart"
rrjr
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3/4/2017 11:50am
rrjr wrote:
Bikes older than 5 years are not "banned". However, no manufacturer is going to take the time and expense to put a 5 year old bike...
Bikes older than 5 years are not "banned". However, no manufacturer is going to take the time and expense to put a 5 year old bike through homologation again. Their objective with racing is to promote and sell new models.
OW38B wrote:
I'm not sure you understand then what "homologation" is and it's intent. A manufacturer would have to make 500 units of said year bike (over 5...
I'm not sure you understand then what "homologation" is and it's intent.

A manufacturer would have to make 500 units of said year bike (over 5 years) to be eligible for for re-homologation and that makes no sense when said bike has already been thru the process.

But like always say "the AMA has never been accused of being smart"
I understand the rule.
That's why I said no manufacturer would take the time and expense to homologate a 5 year old model.
I guess I should've been more specific with my reply by saying no manufacturer would take the time and expense to produce and manufacture enough models of a 5 year old bike to make it eligible to be re-homolagted.

Totally agree with your comment about the AMA.
71Fish
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3/4/2017 2:18pm
71Fish wrote:
Seems to happen once or twice every year, usually Atlanta or Detroit.
mx317 wrote:
Whole bikes too!
I'm retarded.
When you respond like that it makes me feel terrible for having fun with you. As with most misspellings, we knew what you meant.
3/4/2017 3:27pm
What amazes me is how many people have no idea that it is a rule. Like when Roczen wanted to ride that RM at the last national and people were acting like the AMA straight up told him no. Kenny himself didn't even know and he acted like he was treated unfairly.
Markee
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6/12/2017 1:00pm
What amazes me is how many people have no idea that it is a rule. Like when Roczen wanted to ride that RM at the last...
What amazes me is how many people have no idea that it is a rule. Like when Roczen wanted to ride that RM at the last national and people were acting like the AMA straight up told him no. Kenny himself didn't even know and he acted like he was treated unfairly.
The real person treated unfairly was the fan in that situation.
6/12/2017 1:20pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
It's a joke to assume that the officials are capable of ensuring that current factory bikes are adhering to the production rule.
Acidreamer
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6/12/2017 1:23pm
Man id hate to have to buy a $5000 bike and then still have to put another $10,000 to be competitive. Every couple of years.
gt80rider
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6/12/2017 1:28pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
No doubt, for example, the Suzukis change so radically from yr to yr that even a super computer could not hold all the different specs. (Sarcasm tag for all the idiots out there)
bsharkey
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Marysville, WA US
6/12/2017 3:21pm
kind of a dumb rule really. with as much as technology on the bikes improve the top guys will always be on newer bikes. honestly when was the last time you saw a pro rider racing a 5 year old bike? the amswer is never
wardy
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6/12/2017 3:58pm
Because this is a professional sport
with Volunteer flaggers.

LOL!
kott0n
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6/12/2017 3:59pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
Let's run with this.

So a 2000 kx250 was raced professionally and poured over by officials upon release.

So it's already been accepted as an ama race bike in the year 2000.

What's changed with that bike? Same frame/motor as oem in 2000 as today right? Run it then.
GangGreen
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6/13/2017 5:57am
hvaughn88 wrote:
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to...
If I remember correctly, the last time this got brought up the answer was basically because it would be next to impossible for the officials to be able to make sure the bikes were all legal if they had to keep up with the specs of every single bike from all the years

Sorry for that incredibly long sentence
OW38B quoted, “But like I always say "the AMA has never been accused of being smart"”
TripleFive quoted, “It's a joke to assume that the officials are capable of ensuring that current factory bikes are adhering to the production rule”

I would bet $100 I could push a 10 year old KX450 through AMA Technical Inspection and not get caught. If you wrote “2017 KX450” on your signup sheet, had the correct Backgrounds, Numbers, and MX Sports stickers.

• Anyone that’s ever raced an AMA National would chuckle knowing my statement is correct
.

I have a good two-stroke homologation story, where Roger Decoster saved the day, for another time.

Who was it that did that video series sneaking into the pro pits?

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