Little Kids on the "Big Track" or even the "Vet Track"...

TeamGreen
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Edited Date/Time 6/6/2015 6:46am
Today it happened on both...

1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track.

We're taking Milestone.

So, what say you?

I think it's a Safety Problem: coming over a long Huge-Blind jump & there's a kid on a FIFTY in my landing-line...
And a kid on a KX60.
And a kid on a SX65.

Opinions?

I'm not interested in landing on some poor little kid that's jus' trying to ride; but, I'm 52 & these kids are on MY "Old-Guy" track and they're SCARING THE SHIT OUTTA ME when I'm 20 feet up!
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DPR250R
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6/3/2015 7:04pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 7:25pm
Happened to me once at Diamondback (NY). Came over a blind table and a kid on a KX 60 was darting to the left to get out of my way. Problem was... I was heading left not to run him over. I ended up off the track. I was pretty scared... This was probably 15 years ago.

Now they run classes at the few tracks I go to. The wait between sucks, but I get why they do it and think they should.
brocster
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Aliso Viejo, CA US
6/3/2015 7:05pm
There is the same discussion going on, on our local forum.

My question is what parent sends there kid out in those circumstances? what's the mentality?

Xeno
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San Clemente, CA US
6/3/2015 7:05pm
Depends on the kid.
I'd like to see the parent standing on the infield, watching their kid's every move (I know I will).

I've had "closing speed" issues with the mini riders, too. Very scary.
Highsider
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Way Toasty, IA US
6/3/2015 7:06pm
So now I have two questions before paying at the front gate:

1. you allow quads?

2. you allow minis on the Vet and Main tracks?

The Shop

slipdog
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6/3/2015 7:07pm
I had to light up the finish flagger at E-Street this weekend for the same thing
cwtoyota
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Tacoma, WA US
6/3/2015 7:21pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 7:40pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Today it happened on both... 1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track. We're taking...
Today it happened on both...

1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track.

We're taking Milestone.

So, what say you?

I think it's a Safety Problem: coming over a long Huge-Blind jump & there's a kid on a FIFTY in my landing-line...
And a kid on a KX60.
And a kid on a SX65.

Opinions?

I'm not interested in landing on some poor little kid that's jus' trying to ride; but, I'm 52 & these kids are on MY "Old-Guy" track and they're SCARING THE SHIT OUTTA ME when I'm 20 feet up!
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track.



She came out of this alight...
Couple of guys who were watching told me that she followed dad out onto the track. Dad entered the track between the double and so did she. Dad almost got his little girl killed. Worst feeling I've ever had on a bike!

Dad was at fault in my crash, but having a flagger or splitting up the practice could have prevented it.

Size of bike isn't as important as skill level and level of experience of the rider and his/her awareness. Still, it's nearly impossible to see the little kids on small bikes on the back side of a jump, or when they roll between jumps.

Crush
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Sydney AU
6/3/2015 7:22pm
Will never agree with it.

There are heaps of kids that can smoke me on the 85, but if we have a collision it's not a fight, they're fucked.

A little time scheduling and problem is avoided, MX needs all the safety help it can get.
mtl
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6/3/2015 7:24pm
I blame the parents who want their kid to get faster.
6/3/2015 7:25pm
situational awareness, looking ahead, sometimes to the next section, and knowing who you are coming up on. There aren't any sections at milestone that are so blind slower riders should surprise you, vet or main. Its unfortunate but required to keep everyone in one piece.
6/3/2015 7:27pm
Ryder Difrancesco can show alot of vets the fast way around the track on his 65.

But I agree, it's a huge safety hazard having young guns on the track who don't have the "skill" so to speak to stay in their lines and know how to not interfere with other, faster riders.
731chopper
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DFW, TX US
6/3/2015 7:27pm
Having any 50 on a track with big bikes is complete negligence for safety by both the track owner/operator and the parent. If they are riding the same track the practices need to be split between big bikes and minis at the very least.
DPR250R
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6/3/2015 7:28pm
cwtoyota wrote:
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track. [embed] https://youtu.be/yEt7c3jDAlA [/embed] She came out of this alight... Couple of guys...
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track.



She came out of this alight...
Couple of guys who were watching told me that she followed dad out onto the track. Dad entered the track between the double and so did she. Dad almost got his little girl killed. Worst feeling I've ever had on a bike!

Dad was at fault in my crash, but having a flagger or splitting up the practice could have prevented it.

Size of bike isn't as important as skill level and level of experience of the rider and his/her awareness. Still, it's nearly impossible to see the little kids on small bikes on the back side of a jump, or when they roll between jumps.

Damn... that was scary to watch.
yamahuh
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US
6/3/2015 7:31pm
If they are beginner or learning to ride the speed difference is too great and should be on a kid track. Had a girl on a 50 learning to ride in GA and would stop in the valley between doubles and you could not see her. I went and talked with the 'mini dad' who seemed ticked at first, a didn't want to acknowledge there was a problem. Eventually they moved to the kid track.
machine
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Collettsville, NC US
6/3/2015 7:34pm
I agree they need to stay off the big boy tracks. I had it happen one time as I was coming over a blind jump in the air. The kid crashed and his dad was wheeling his bike ACROSS the track, instead of OFF the track. Well, he saw me in the air and threw the bike right onto the line I was landing on. Hell, if he would have just laid it down, I would have missed it.

Well, needless to say, I landed on his bike (RM85) and ate shit and jacked my shoulder up good. Yes, if the kid is capapble, then by al means, they should be allowed, but really it's the parents fault for not being realistic about their kids ability level. I wouldn't let my kid out there, if they were a safety hazzard to themselves, or other riders.
6/3/2015 7:40pm
cwtoyota wrote:
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track. [embed] https://youtu.be/yEt7c3jDAlA [/embed] She came out of this alight... Couple of guys...
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track.



She came out of this alight...
Couple of guys who were watching told me that she followed dad out onto the track. Dad entered the track between the double and so did she. Dad almost got his little girl killed. Worst feeling I've ever had on a bike!

Dad was at fault in my crash, but having a flagger or splitting up the practice could have prevented it.

Size of bike isn't as important as skill level and level of experience of the rider and his/her awareness. Still, it's nearly impossible to see the little kids on small bikes on the back side of a jump, or when they roll between jumps.

My gawd that was terrible. Had you panic and frozen in air, you could have ended that kids life. That was one hell of a save...bravo. Seriously, bravo.

Torco1
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Corona, CA US
6/3/2015 7:45pm
I'm all for splitting it up by skill level. Too many times I've almost killed someone or myself at Milestone. I've made myself crash pretty bad on more than one occasion trying to avoid hitting someone that shouldn't really be out on a track at all......and they had no idea what even happened behind them while they continue on and I'm trying to pick myself up on the side of the track somewhere.
6/3/2015 7:46pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Today it happened on both... 1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track. We're taking...
Today it happened on both...

1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track.

We're taking Milestone.

So, what say you?

I think it's a Safety Problem: coming over a long Huge-Blind jump & there's a kid on a FIFTY in my landing-line...
And a kid on a KX60.
And a kid on a SX65.

Opinions?

I'm not interested in landing on some poor little kid that's jus' trying to ride; but, I'm 52 & these kids are on MY "Old-Guy" track and they're SCARING THE SHIT OUTTA ME when I'm 20 feet up!
I ride Milestone frequently, too. Both the main track and the crash-test-dummy (VET) track.

It completely depends on the kid. Some kids are just as fast as a VET C, B rider, but can't clear the biggest jumps. I'm ok with that, because a lot of guys roll them anyway. And these faster mini kids have the experience to stay on the edges when they roll and most importantly, hold their lines. The, super slow kids, that are inexperienced are way more dangerous then slow adults because they usually lack the awareness and hold your line rule. That's no bueno, not acceptable.

Interestingly enough, i've seen 2 fights at Milestone for the opposite reason. Super fast kids ripping around on the Pee-Wee track and mini-dad flips out.

Doug
loftyair
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6/3/2015 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 8:11pm
I know a guy that's really fast. Up in the Great Northwest, he went out in the intermediate and pro practice. They were so slow it was ridiculous. A guy swerved a couple times and put them into another guy causing this person to crash. It's unfortunate, but when youre riding the right one, make sure your riding the right one dammit! I actually like the tracks that you don't split them up better. That way, not everyone is trying to be in the ones they're not supposed to be in. And it's a lot less people on the track at once it seems.
TeamGreen
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6/3/2015 8:20pm
situational awareness, looking ahead, sometimes to the next section, and knowing who you are coming up on. There aren't any sections at milestone that are so...
situational awareness, looking ahead, sometimes to the next section, and knowing who you are coming up on. There aren't any sections at milestone that are so blind slower riders should surprise you, vet or main. Its unfortunate but required to keep everyone in one piece.
3 tables that you can clear on the Vet track, alone.

ALL 3 have Blind Landing issues: you can jump them and land "Blind". Especially the two largest tables.

I know, it happened today.
These kids were SLOW...REALLY...SLOW.
And SMALL.

I look waaaaay ahead and usually you can see these kids on-top of the jump as you approach; but, there are times when they're ALREADY Over it.

I, intentionally, look "across-track" & "across section" A LOT; however, the problem still exists.

This ain't about the Fast Kids: this is about the tiny little 50s and REALLY SLOW 65-85 kids...so slow and so "ALL OVER THE PLACE"...too.

THAT HAVE THEIR OWN TRACK(s)! ...@ Milestone...and Pala (have had the same problem at Pala...and GH.

Note: this afternoon the Main track was closed at 2.
Myke
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San Diego, CA US
6/3/2015 9:15pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 9:17pm
I was at Comp Edge and there were mini's (slow 65cc kids) on the big track. I think that's totally wrong.

I was watching the parents of the kids while they were out there. You could def tell they were thinking this was putting them on the way to become the next James Stewart.

I not really sure I know what I am talking about, but aren't they going to learn more on obstacles sized for their bikes? Not these big jumps they need to roll over.
6/3/2015 9:25pm
TeamGreen wrote:
3 tables that you can clear on the Vet track, alone. ALL 3 have Blind Landing issues: you can jump them and land "Blind". Especially the...
3 tables that you can clear on the Vet track, alone.

ALL 3 have Blind Landing issues: you can jump them and land "Blind". Especially the two largest tables.

I know, it happened today.
These kids were SLOW...REALLY...SLOW.
And SMALL.

I look waaaaay ahead and usually you can see these kids on-top of the jump as you approach; but, there are times when they're ALREADY Over it.

I, intentionally, look "across-track" & "across section" A LOT; however, the problem still exists.

This ain't about the Fast Kids: this is about the tiny little 50s and REALLY SLOW 65-85 kids...so slow and so "ALL OVER THE PLACE"...too.

THAT HAVE THEIR OWN TRACK(s)! ...@ Milestone...and Pala (have had the same problem at Pala...and GH.

Note: this afternoon the Main track was closed at 2.
At that point, they don't belong on the vet even with a parent behind them. What do you do? ask a flagger to flag them off?

Pala is bad too, cahuilla doesn't seem to draw so many mini's.
TeamGreen
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6/3/2015 9:33pm
TeamGreen wrote:
3 tables that you can clear on the Vet track, alone. ALL 3 have Blind Landing issues: you can jump them and land "Blind". Especially the...
3 tables that you can clear on the Vet track, alone.

ALL 3 have Blind Landing issues: you can jump them and land "Blind". Especially the two largest tables.

I know, it happened today.
These kids were SLOW...REALLY...SLOW.
And SMALL.

I look waaaaay ahead and usually you can see these kids on-top of the jump as you approach; but, there are times when they're ALREADY Over it.

I, intentionally, look "across-track" & "across section" A LOT; however, the problem still exists.

This ain't about the Fast Kids: this is about the tiny little 50s and REALLY SLOW 65-85 kids...so slow and so "ALL OVER THE PLACE"...too.

THAT HAVE THEIR OWN TRACK(s)! ...@ Milestone...and Pala (have had the same problem at Pala...and GH.

Note: this afternoon the Main track was closed at 2.
At that point, they don't belong on the vet even with a parent behind them. What do you do? ask a flagger to flag them off...
At that point, they don't belong on the vet even with a parent behind them. What do you do? ask a flagger to flag them off?

Pala is bad too, cahuilla doesn't seem to draw so many mini's.
I think I'm going to make a suggestion to the flaggers and, at times, tell the parents that...

"I'm Soooooooo not looking forward to Landing on your kid that's going about 10 mph on a track that's for guys My Age."

I really, really, really feel sorry for ANY parent that acts like an ass when this happens. It won't be pretty...

Today, I shook my head at a set of parents after a "close-call"...one of'em pulled her off the track. I just loaded up.

ledger
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TN US
6/3/2015 9:44pm
My gawd that was terrible. Had you panic and frozen in air, you could have ended that kids life. That was one hell of a save...bravo...
My gawd that was terrible. Had you panic and frozen in air, you could have ended that kids life. That was one hell of a save...bravo. Seriously, bravo.

Amen !! great job to cwtoyota for getting his bike over as far as possible, otherwise, this would be a different story. I hope the girls dad learned a lesson.
jeffro503
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St Helens, OR US
6/3/2015 10:54pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Today it happened on both... 1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track. We're taking...
Today it happened on both...

1st on the Main Track and later in the afternoon...on the freshly groomed, watered and very fast Vet Track.

We're taking Milestone.

So, what say you?

I think it's a Safety Problem: coming over a long Huge-Blind jump & there's a kid on a FIFTY in my landing-line...
And a kid on a KX60.
And a kid on a SX65.

Opinions?

I'm not interested in landing on some poor little kid that's jus' trying to ride; but, I'm 52 & these kids are on MY "Old-Guy" track and they're SCARING THE SHIT OUTTA ME when I'm 20 feet up!
cwtoyota wrote:
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track. [embed] https://youtu.be/yEt7c3jDAlA [/embed] She came out of this alight... Couple of guys...
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track.



She came out of this alight...
Couple of guys who were watching told me that she followed dad out onto the track. Dad entered the track between the double and so did she. Dad almost got his little girl killed. Worst feeling I've ever had on a bike!

Dad was at fault in my crash, but having a flagger or splitting up the practice could have prevented it.

Size of bike isn't as important as skill level and level of experience of the rider and his/her awareness. Still, it's nearly impossible to see the little kids on small bikes on the back side of a jump, or when they roll between jumps.

Damn! I ride Riverdale quite often ( been a couple months though ) and that's exactly what scares me at times. I've seen pro's out pounding laps while there are 50 / 65 riders riding at the same time. Been many times I've had my stomach in my throat from seeing close calls.

As far as your video , you did everything possible to miss that kid. If anything you should be patting yourself on the back because you basically threw it away to avoid her. Good job man , and brave!
itsherbro
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Pomona, CA US
6/3/2015 11:02pm
ride at your own risk
PNWOffroad
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Bend, OR US
6/3/2015 11:09pm
There are many little guys faster than I am, but like some have stated its more of a mass and size equation when comparing contact with a big bike and a little bike
Justin345
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Southern MD, MD US
6/4/2015 5:22am
Do west coast tracks not split up practice sessions? Every track I've ever been to run 15-20 minute practice sessions. Usually A/B big bikes, C big bikes, mini/beginner. This is obviously for liability reasons as it's simply not safe to mix them on the track at the same time. It's odd to me that west coast tracks wouldn't split up sessions like that as well?
Uncle Tony
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6/4/2015 5:36am Edited Date/Time 6/4/2015 5:38am
DPR250R wrote:
Happened to me once at Diamondback (NY). Came over a blind table and a kid on a KX 60 was darting to the left to get...
Happened to me once at Diamondback (NY). Came over a blind table and a kid on a KX 60 was darting to the left to get out of my way. Problem was... I was heading left not to run him over. I ended up off the track. I was pretty scared... This was probably 15 years ago.

Now they run classes at the few tracks I go to. The wait between sucks, but I get why they do it and think they should.
Ha that's funning, same thing happened to me at Diamondback, some little kid stopped on the tabletop to talk to his buddy and I almost landed on him so I made a u-turn and told him to get off the track if he wants to hang out with his friend, next lap I'm mid flight and the little bastard is standing there flipping me off! Down at or local club they break it up in groups so you don't have that problem but some of the moto dads with super star kids are above the rules and the little pricks get to go out in any practice they want
walent215
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Ridgecrest, CA US
6/4/2015 6:02am
Justin345 wrote:
Do west coast tracks not split up practice sessions? Every track I've ever been to run 15-20 minute practice sessions. Usually A/B big bikes, C big...
Do west coast tracks not split up practice sessions? Every track I've ever been to run 15-20 minute practice sessions. Usually A/B big bikes, C big bikes, mini/beginner. This is obviously for liability reasons as it's simply not safe to mix them on the track at the same time. It's odd to me that west coast tracks wouldn't split up sessions like that as well?
Some do,some don't....I rarely see it nowadays....back in the late 90s early 2000 you would see it much more....my son landed on a father/son combo putting around on the main track at comp edge a while back.....soooo ridiculous as the kid was on a 50 and was a total beginner..I'm glad it wasn't worse....tracks should not allow beginner minis on any track with big bikes...period!
6/4/2015 7:00am
Here in the UK kids have been grouped separately for sometime with flaggers on every jump.
Before this happened I had the misfortune of seeing a 9 year old kid in his dads arms shortly before he died from head - neck injuries after an adult landed on him on the blind side of a jump. I can't begin to imagine how the parents or the rider felt, all I know I went home and took my kids bikes down the shop to be sold that day.
As much as I hate waiting for groups at my local practice tracks I do understand and support it .

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