250 vs 250...... Dear DC

GuyB
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GuyB 10/13/2013 11:48am
10/13/2013 11:48am
burn1986 wrote:
Edited
Congratulations on the dumbest post of the year.
MX7MX
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MX7MX 10/13/2013 12:17pm
10/13/2013 12:17pm
If the results wouldn't change, then what difference does it make?
burn1986
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burn1986 10/13/2013 12:25pm
10/13/2013 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2013 3:09pm
Edited
Suns_PSD
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Suns_PSD 10/13/2013 12:26pm
10/13/2013 12:26pm
More riders could actually show up and race on competitive equipment.

The Shop

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themrtoad
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themrtoad 10/13/2013 1:39pm
10/13/2013 1:39pm
haven't read all the thread. Anyway I say hell yeah to let the 2strokes back in. Get rid of them fourfiddys, premier class is 250cc regardless of stroke and feeder class is 125cc(regardless of stroke of course) LOL

fourstrokes is not the answer. The big 4 must realize they had put their Money on the wrong horse. Pull out Before you killed of the sport as we Know it. It's a no brainer except if you have short term financial interests (we all know who) not related to the Foundation of motocross.
OW38B
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OW38B 10/13/2013 2:03pm
10/13/2013 2:03pm
MX7MX wrote:
If the results wouldn't change, then what difference does it make?
DC, the AMA, MXSports and Honda say you are clueless...... They think 2 stokes are way better.
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Mxcrayz 10/13/2013 2:49pm
10/13/2013 2:49pm
MX7MX wrote:
If the results wouldn't change, then what difference does it make?
OW38B wrote:
DC, the AMA, MXSports and Honda say you are clueless...... They think 2 stokes are way better.
Huh?
mynewcr250
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mynewcr250 10/13/2013 3:32pm
10/13/2013 3:32pm
MX7MX wrote:
If the results wouldn't change, then what difference does it make?
OW38B wrote:
DC, the AMA, MXSports and Honda say you are clueless...... They think 2 stokes are way better.
Mxcrayz wrote:
Huh?
RTFT
twosmoke30 10/13/2013 5:26pm
10/13/2013 5:26pm
Get ready boys

35smom
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35smom 10/13/2013 5:37pm
10/13/2013 5:37pm
twosmoke30 wrote:
Get ready boys [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/13/33978/s1200_Untitled.jpg[/img]
Get ready boys

Yeahhhhh baby!!!
Forza
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Forza 10/13/2013 5:44pm
10/13/2013 5:44pm
twosmoke30 wrote:
Get ready boys [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/10/13/33978/s1200_Untitled.jpg[/img]
Get ready boys

Top 20 weekly?
normanmx
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normanmx 10/13/2013 8:44pm
10/13/2013 8:44pm
Just in from my friend Digger.....no secret,this guy could easyly be a factory (2 stroke) test pilot....2014.5 will be plenty of 2 stroke good news....they streched it enough...made people poor and lazy....done.

"Try the stock pilot, Suzuki RM250 needle NECJ on the 3rd setting & a 172-175 main jet & your bike will thank you :-) I raced in Maine today & it was around 43-48 degrees out & my bike actually pinged & it hasn't pinged since the 1st day I rode it. I put the clip on the 4th setting & she was ripping & rewarded me with both holeshots :-) I love blowing all of buddy's trick 450s away on a weekly basis ,LOVE it :-) news....and dont stamp shit....this is just progress..."

I admire this guy...so much knoledge....check it out....no stupid passion....only facts
motokid202 10/13/2013 9:55pm
10/13/2013 9:55pm
DC wrote:
Since Click Click Bang already rebuked my own words from four years ago, I don't have to go into the past here -- his mind is...
Since Click Click Bang already rebuked my own words from four years ago, I don't have to go into the past here -- his mind is made up on my position.

But I will say this: the 250 class outdoors is a national championship class, not a feeder class. A rider can stay in that class as long as he wants outdoors, which is different than SX, where it is a regional series.

I feel for everyone that misses two-strokes racing in SX and the outdoor nationals, but I also feel for all of the riders and teams and companies that made the commitment to race four-stroke 250Fs these last ten years. They--the professional racing teams and marketing departments of the five major OEMs, which fund professional racing--all prefer the rulebook as it is now, for both SX and MX. Without them, there would be no factory teams, and I don't think that's the best way forward.

It seems to me that if you want two-strokes to come back, vote with your wallet and go buy one. It's a bottom-up fix, not a top-down fix. I know because I tried.

DC
MX Sports
"But I will say this: the 250 class outdoors is a national championship class, not a feeder class. A rider can stay in that class as long as he wants outdoors, which is different than SX, where it is a regional series."

davey let me ask you this, you say a rider can stay in the 250 class as long as he wants but yet riders that have won sx 250(lites)championships like Roczen, Hahn, and Tickle HAVE to move up because of there championship in that regional supercross series? that doesnt make any sense, and the fact that Baggett is staying in the 250 class after winning a motocross championship and being in the 250 class since 2009 doesnt really add up either. can you explain that to me?

anyway back to the topic in general a 250 is a 250 no matter what stroke, obviously dc has told us that he could not do anything about it but it doesnt really make sense that in amateur you can race a 250 2stroke in the 250cc class but not at the professional level. also whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs or you're bullshitting the dyno meaning its not accurate at all... 250fs stock make about 38-40hp depending the manufactuer, a stock 250 2stroke makes about 40-41hp AT THE MOST so theres no way its an advantage or disadvantage when you can get almost 10hp out of 250f and theres not much you can do to a 250f. just my opinion on that.
twosmoke30 10/13/2013 10:07pm
10/13/2013 10:07pm
motokid202 wrote:
[b]"But I will say this: the 250 class outdoors is a national championship class, not a feeder class. A rider can stay in that class as...
"But I will say this: the 250 class outdoors is a national championship class, not a feeder class. A rider can stay in that class as long as he wants outdoors, which is different than SX, where it is a regional series."

davey let me ask you this, you say a rider can stay in the 250 class as long as he wants but yet riders that have won sx 250(lites)championships like Roczen, Hahn, and Tickle HAVE to move up because of there championship in that regional supercross series? that doesnt make any sense, and the fact that Baggett is staying in the 250 class after winning a motocross championship and being in the 250 class since 2009 doesnt really add up either. can you explain that to me?

anyway back to the topic in general a 250 is a 250 no matter what stroke, obviously dc has told us that he could not do anything about it but it doesnt really make sense that in amateur you can race a 250 2stroke in the 250cc class but not at the professional level. also whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs or you're bullshitting the dyno meaning its not accurate at all... 250fs stock make about 38-40hp depending the manufactuer, a stock 250 2stroke makes about 40-41hp AT THE MOST so theres no way its an advantage or disadvantage when you can get almost 10hp out of 250f and theres not much you can do to a 250f. just my opinion on that.
whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs or you're bullshitting the dyno meaning its not accurate at all

if a ktm 250sx is making 50hp stock, then a full race factory spec is nearing 60, i seem to remember a article where a certain goat's cr250 was 58hp

not sure where you're getting your numbers....
motokid202 10/13/2013 10:24pm
10/13/2013 10:24pm Edited Date/Time 10/13/2013 10:30pm
twosmoke30 wrote:
[b]whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs...
whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs or you're bullshitting the dyno meaning its not accurate at all

if a ktm 250sx is making 50hp stock, then a full race factory spec is nearing 60, i seem to remember a article where a certain goat's cr250 was 58hp

not sure where you're getting your numbers....
a 2013 CRF450R with a ported head, del west valves no pipe but mapped is making 47.5hp... but asnwer this why would the factory(KTM) leave out so much room to play with? 10hp is alot to leave. theres not much you can do to a 2stroke to gain 10hp. and the guy i got the numbers from dynoed Barcia's bike and it only made 55hp.. and there dyno is as accurate as you can get it. if the goats bike was making anywhere near 58hp it definetely was not a 250.
Fearo
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Fearo 10/14/2013 6:01am
10/14/2013 6:01am Edited Date/Time 10/14/2013 6:06am
KTM's engine base coud produce a 55+HP 250 2-stroke no doubt. The 2004(?) 250 made something like 55HP STOCK but was virtually unrideable. so they had to tone it down. Besides, like it has been said a 100 times before: HP numbers are just part of the equation... Traction and torque at low RPM's are the real challenge.

That's why I find DC's quote about "being scared that one company would invest heavily and dominate" quite interesting. Everyone knows DI 2-strokes are coming but I wonder if a DI 250 2-stroke would have an unfair advantage over a 250F? Talk about irony if it were true.
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newmann 10/14/2013 6:03am
10/14/2013 6:03am
Maybe I'm just imagining it, but the list of the "same few people" in all of the 2 stroke threads seems to keep growing.

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Denn700
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Denn700 10/14/2013 6:30am
10/14/2013 6:30am
twosmoke30 wrote:
[b]whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs...
whoever said 250 2strokes make 55-58hp is lying out there ass... a fully modded 450 wont even produce more than 55hp unless its more than 450ccs or you're bullshitting the dyno meaning its not accurate at all

if a ktm 250sx is making 50hp stock, then a full race factory spec is nearing 60, i seem to remember a article where a certain goat's cr250 was 58hp

not sure where you're getting your numbers....
motokid202 wrote:
a 2013 CRF450R with a ported head, del west valves no pipe but mapped is making 47.5hp... but asnwer this why would the factory(KTM) leave out...
a 2013 CRF450R with a ported head, del west valves no pipe but mapped is making 47.5hp... but asnwer this why would the factory(KTM) leave out so much room to play with? 10hp is alot to leave. theres not much you can do to a 2stroke to gain 10hp. and the guy i got the numbers from dynoed Barcia's bike and it only made 55hp.. and there dyno is as accurate as you can get it. if the goats bike was making anywhere near 58hp it definetely was not a 250.
According to MXA the new YZ450 makes 58 hp stock with the KTM not far behind. They say the other 450's make around 55 hp excluding the honda. The honda makes 51 hp and the 350 54 hp but it is all in the top end. The honda's hp is all in the bottom.
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Overdrive 10/14/2013 7:46am
10/14/2013 7:46am
newmann wrote:
Maybe I'm just imagining it, but the list of the "same few people" in all of the 2 stroke threads seems to keep growing.
I don't think your imagining it, its that bottom up change DC is calling for.
DC
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DC 10/14/2013 7:54am
10/14/2013 7:54am
burn1986 wrote: I dont think DC is out of touch with the sport or racers, I mean his gay lover is one of the best races on the circuit right now. Oops, I shouldn't have let that out.

Care to elaborate on that? Or is that just how you treat people who disagree with you?

DC
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Mxdnusa
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Mxdnusa 10/14/2013 8:04am
10/14/2013 8:04am
Charlie don't surf.

The factory rides are less and less every year. It's inevitable that the two strokes will be back. Be patient.
GuyB
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GuyB 10/14/2013 8:26am
10/14/2013 8:26am
burn1986 wrote:
Edited
I often hope that members here learn and get smarter over time. Unfortunately, occasionally things go the other way.
ob
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ob 10/14/2013 8:30am
10/14/2013 8:30am
I don't know about the east coast, but in the NW where I live lots of people are going back to smokers. When I'm in Cali I see the same. The 125 dream race at Shougal is a pretty big deal. It seems to me that new bikes are just two expensive, especially the 450s, and 250fs aren't fast enough and take to much expensive and complicated maintanence. I ride a 13 ktm 250sx and would love to see national pros racing them again.
In the areas that I ride and race there seems to be a huge lack of 20 something year old fast guys, now it's just a lot of 30 and 40+ guys at the track. They definatly make up the biggest classes on any Sunday race in the NW. I seems that it's just two expensive for younger guys that don't have a good career to buy a new 450. Maybee I'm wrong about this crap but that's how it seems to me. People want to ride what the pros ride, and if they rode bikes that were affordable or at least started of that way more people would be out ripping them. And the whole DI two stroke, just learn how to jet and save the extra money and weight. Maybee I should have posted this in one of the other three or four threads about the same shit , im not sure LOL.
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Jt$ 10/14/2013 8:36am
10/14/2013 8:36am
motokid202 wrote:
a 2013 CRF450R with a ported head, del west valves no pipe but mapped is making 47.5hp... but asnwer this why would the factory(KTM) leave out...
a 2013 CRF450R with a ported head, del west valves no pipe but mapped is making 47.5hp... but asnwer this why would the factory(KTM) leave out so much room to play with? 10hp is alot to leave. theres not much you can do to a 2stroke to gain 10hp. and the guy i got the numbers from dynoed Barcia's bike and it only made 55hp.. and there dyno is as accurate as you can get it. if the goats bike was making anywhere near 58hp it definetely was not a 250.
I am sorry to disappoint you but your numbers are bit off. I have no idea what your 2013 CRF450 does or has but most factory 450's have close to 60 and can be higher but usually not to move the power to a more usable curve. Factory 250 2 strokes are 55+ pretty consistently, the highest I heard was 58. The 2004 factory Suzuki 250 was 56 and kept there to try to add some torque. My 2005 PC Honda 450 was 59.5 on Mitch's dyno, which I watched get run myself. The MDK KTM 250f's in 2009 were 47.5 and were pretty much known to be the best motors that year. Even in 2005, PC 250f's were 44-45 depending on setup. Not trying to put you down, just shedding light on it.
newmann
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newmann 10/14/2013 8:50am
10/14/2013 8:50am
Did Burn just commit suicide by cop?Pinch
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 10/14/2013 9:00am
10/14/2013 9:00am
observer wrote:
Also............KTM figured out a long time ago that a lot(not all, but[b] a lot[/b])of the buyers of 2t are old schoolers that have moved over into...
Also............KTM figured out a long time ago that a lot(not all, but a lot)of the buyers of 2t are old schoolers that have moved over into single track trail riding. And KTM RULES core single track offroading with there 250 & 300 XC-XCWe bikes.
We(old schoolers) also are the most gainfully employed and likely to spend more money on bikes, gear & garage goodies.
I know I'm far being the only one that looks around there garage and think......."I am truly eat up with it........." Huh Laughing
Yea and we "old schoolers" can spend money heading out to attend the Nationals. I used to every year rent a motorhome, load up the family and head out to a nearby national for the entire weekend and watch the amateur races and pros. Took about 6 people altogether, rent a site on track, buy T-shirts kinda deal. Haven't done that now for the last couple of years. I guess i figure if the sport doesn't have room to accommodate "fair and equitable" racing of the machines I buy and ride then I won't support them. My kids feel the same way so their likely lost from supporting pro racing too. I continue to watch it on TV and fully appreciate the efforts of the riders.

I went thru this same shit back in the nineties when I was more involved with streetbikes. The AMA at the request of the Japanese manufacturers revised the rules that hurt the ability of the twin cylinder bikes to compete against the four cylinder bikes the Japanese were racing. Well I rode a Ducati s was interested in their efforts and while Ferracci had a pretty successful team capable of running top five and winning he basically went away after the rule changes. The developing Harley effort stopped too. Hanson tried for a couple of years to campaign with a Duc superbike but they stopped. I got disgusted and switched my interest back to MX only to the same situation playing out here.

I would guess if the AMA/MX Sports doesn't consider the fans perspective on this (which apparently they aren't) then the same rocky road that roadracing went thru may await them. There's alot of old schoolers that grew up riding and racing two strokes. It's our heritage and the machines are still viable race machines; if it weren't for the leaded fuel restriction and the generous displacement advantage given to the four strokes we still could see them doing well in MX with top riders on-board.
GuyB
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GuyB 10/14/2013 9:03am
10/14/2013 9:03am
Man, you're good at this game.
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OW38B 10/14/2013 9:07am
10/14/2013 9:07am
newmann wrote:
Did Burn just commit suicide by cop?Pinch
Oh Dear....Shocked
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JeepnMike 10/14/2013 9:14am
10/14/2013 9:14am
newmann wrote:
Did Burn just commit suicide by cop?Pinch
OW38B wrote:
Oh Dear....Shocked
He poked with a burning stick pretty hard there... I would be lying if I said I didn't chuckle Cheerful

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