2016 KTM 125 Power Valve issue

brocsdad
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Edited Date/Time 6/5/2020 7:30pm
So I received the F1 moto arms and they seem to fine but powervalve is still sticking. It seems the barrel that spins in the cylinder is too tight. If I back off the cover bolts it works perfect but once you tighten the bolts it binds the pv and will not let it move. I have cleaned and lubricated everything but still no luck. I have heard of people having to buy another cylinder to solve the problem. I'm thinking you could machine the cover or cylinder a few .001 and cure it. I'm probably going to send the cylinder to Terry Varner.
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2/12/2017 6:56pm
Did you use a fresh gasket? If you did maybe try using a second gasket and see if that helps.
brocsdad
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2/12/2017 7:04pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2017 7:06pm
It uses an oring but I had thought about double stacking gaskets if it used them. Even when I loosen the front cover it still catches where where the pin tries to make the circle area of the slot. Though it moves it does not fully close.

It makes you wonder how many KTM's are not running to potential because of this.

Bad design...
CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/12/2017 10:32pm
I replaced the O-rings and it didn't change anything. Are both barrels sticking? You can try to swap them from left to right to see if it is the cylinder, maybe oversized or messed up. I don't think going larger will help, maybe make it worse?

I tried the F1 arms but the pins dug a groove in them and made my power valve feel wayyyy more sticky. I still have to try the newest version they sent me. But You can see the slight notch where the slide should be sliding.


brocsdad
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2/13/2017 4:12am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2017 4:14am
I replaced the O-rings and it didn't change anything. Are both barrels sticking? You can try to swap them from left to right to see if...
I replaced the O-rings and it didn't change anything. Are both barrels sticking? You can try to swap them from left to right to see if it is the cylinder, maybe oversized or messed up. I don't think going larger will help, maybe make it worse?

I tried the F1 arms but the pins dug a groove in them and made my power valve feel wayyyy more sticky. I still have to try the newest version they sent me. But You can see the slight notch where the slide should be sliding.


What do you mean by both barrels sticking? It is a 1 piece design.

I know of one person who had to buy a new cylinder due to the valve sticking.

The Shop

CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/13/2017 7:35am
Sorry it's called the Controller drum.

Number 11 on this diagram. That's the part that is sticky on my set up, that is the pin that ride along the power valve arm.

So if you remove everything but your controller flap(14), it's still sticking? Have you removed it completely and cleaned all the exhaust gunk off it with a wire brush?
brocsdad
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2/13/2017 7:42am
Those move free when I spin it with my fingers.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/14/2017 8:41am
brocsdad wrote:
Those move free when I spin it with my fingers.
Have you taken the whole controller flap out to see whats binding? Sound like you have a whole different issue than the arms. The flap can get very gunked up with oil and could be why its not moving freely. Or maybe an o-ring broke and is binding.
brocsdad
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2/14/2017 9:25am
brocsdad wrote:
Those move free when I spin it with my fingers.
Have you taken the whole controller flap out to see whats binding? Sound like you have a whole different issue than the arms. The flap can...
Have you taken the whole controller flap out to see whats binding? Sound like you have a whole different issue than the arms. The flap can get very gunked up with oil and could be why its not moving freely. Or maybe an o-ring broke and is binding.
The o'rings are fine and the power valve is clean. I sent it to my motor builder because I was loosing patience with it.

I will post what he finds.
Ford102b
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2/14/2017 4:36pm
I had the same issue with my kids 17 125. The barrels seemed to move freely but when put all together they were the source of the friction. I pulled them out, removed the o rings and used a buffing wheel to polish them, reinstalled the o rings, greased them as per the shop manual and reinstalled. They are working flawlessly now.

I am going to buy a new set and have them sent to Cryo Heat to have them micropolished and treated. This should help dramatically, I would think!
brocsdad
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2/14/2017 8:28pm
Ford102b wrote:
I had the same issue with my kids 17 125. The barrels seemed to move freely but when put all together they were the source of...
I had the same issue with my kids 17 125. The barrels seemed to move freely but when put all together they were the source of the friction. I pulled them out, removed the o rings and used a buffing wheel to polish them, reinstalled the o rings, greased them as per the shop manual and reinstalled. They are working flawlessly now.

I am going to buy a new set and have them sent to Cryo Heat to have them micropolished and treated. This should help dramatically, I would think!
I bought the bike with 3.4 hours on it and it has like 10 now. It has a full national EBR Motor build and the owner warned me they had 4 of these bikes and (1) of the previous had issues with the Power Valve sticking. I didn't notice anything at first but the bike seemed to get progressively worse.

I have heard of some of engine builders taking a few .001 off the cover or REM finishing the PV parts. I sent my cylinder to Terry Varner. I will post what he finds.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/14/2017 10:52pm
Ford102b wrote:
I had the same issue with my kids 17 125. The barrels seemed to move freely but when put all together they were the source of...
I had the same issue with my kids 17 125. The barrels seemed to move freely but when put all together they were the source of the friction. I pulled them out, removed the o rings and used a buffing wheel to polish them, reinstalled the o rings, greased them as per the shop manual and reinstalled. They are working flawlessly now.

I am going to buy a new set and have them sent to Cryo Heat to have them micropolished and treated. This should help dramatically, I would think!
Are you micro polishing all the parts or just the barrels?

Post any photos if you have them. Thanks!
2stmark
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2/15/2017 7:54am
Hi everyone , This is my first post

I have a 16'150sx ...can you describe how the bike runs when the PV sticks ?

thanks , mark

brocsdad
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2/15/2017 8:43am
2stmark wrote:
Hi everyone , This is my first post I have a 16'150sx ...can you describe how the bike runs when the PV sticks ? thanks...
Hi everyone , This is my first post

I have a 16'150sx ...can you describe how the bike runs when the PV sticks ?

thanks , mark

You will notice the bike revving slower than normal. I knew something wasn’t right when I tried out a friends YZ 125 and it felt stronger through the mid-range and top. It also kinda blubbered or didn’t clean out on top-end and I was chasing jetting. A couple weeks ago I took the bike up the street after prepping it for my son and noticed it wouldn’t wind out. I immediately pulled the PV cover off and watched the arm as I opened the throttle and it was obvious is was sticking and hanging up.

It only takes a few minutes to take the pipe off and remove the power valve cover and watch the PV as you open the throttle. If in doubt pull the cylinder and check for smooth operation and if the valve is fully opening and closing. Not opening or closing by 1mm makes a big diference.
2stmark
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2/15/2017 9:00am

Ok , I will check it all out

I have noticed lately my 16' 150sx is running inconsistently

occasionally it staggers in acceleration & does not rev out completely like it used to
also seems to lag when accelerating off the bottom into the mid ..then takes off like a Banshee... lol
mostly seems to lack in torque when cornering ... almost like your foot got stuck on the brake pedal
jetting has not changed , temps don't change this behavior so I don't think its jetting

Thanks for the quick response
brocsdad
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2/15/2017 9:05am
2stmark wrote:
Ok , I will check it all out I have noticed lately my 16' 150sx is running inconsistently occasionally it staggers in acceleration & does not...

Ok , I will check it all out

I have noticed lately my 16' 150sx is running inconsistently

occasionally it staggers in acceleration & does not rev out completely like it used to
also seems to lag when accelerating off the bottom into the mid ..then takes off like a Banshee... lol
mostly seems to lack in torque when cornering ... almost like your foot got stuck on the brake pedal
jetting has not changed , temps don't change this behavior so I don't think its jetting

Thanks for the quick response
Definitely sounds like the Power Valve...
sandman768
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2/15/2017 9:29am
Have you tried contacting KTM directly? I have had good results with WMR in Stuart Fla. they are a very knowledgable KTM shop. Jeff Slavens also very good KTM guy. Just throwing out some potential idea"s.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/15/2017 10:07am
2stmark wrote:
Ok , I will check it all out I have noticed lately my 16' 150sx is running inconsistently occasionally it staggers in acceleration & does not...

Ok , I will check it all out

I have noticed lately my 16' 150sx is running inconsistently

occasionally it staggers in acceleration & does not rev out completely like it used to
also seems to lag when accelerating off the bottom into the mid ..then takes off like a Banshee... lol
mostly seems to lack in torque when cornering ... almost like your foot got stuck on the brake pedal
jetting has not changed , temps don't change this behavior so I don't think its jetting

Thanks for the quick response
+1 that's the PV sticking. I had those same symptoms.
brocsdad
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2/16/2017 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2017 2:37pm
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how the part could rust or freeze up on a garage kept bike with less than 10 hours. He is trying to get sides to work now but he did mention the OEM arms seem to be smoother than the F1 arms but he is going to try both.

I will keep everyone posted.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/16/2017 3:21pm
brocsdad wrote:
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how...
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how the part could rust or freeze up on a garage kept bike with less than 10 hours. He is trying to get sides to work now but he did mention the OEM arms seem to be smoother than the F1 arms but he is going to try both.

I will keep everyone posted.
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version 2 they sent over. It would be nice if the F1 arms had a DLC or hardcoating, I think that would help the action with the pin sliding.
brocsdad
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2/16/2017 6:58pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2017 6:59pm
brocsdad wrote:
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how...
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how the part could rust or freeze up on a garage kept bike with less than 10 hours. He is trying to get sides to work now but he did mention the OEM arms seem to be smoother than the F1 arms but he is going to try both.

I will keep everyone posted.
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version...
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version 2 they sent over. It would be nice if the F1 arms had a DLC or hardcoating, I think that would help the action with the pin sliding.
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back and forth while I was on the phone. He mentioned swapping the #11 (in the pic) which apparently opens the side ports and they helped everything work better.

The F1 arms have the potential to work better but he also had to smooth those out since they are a lot rougher than the OEM. So the F1 arms will need some cleanup work to function smoothly.

Thanks again to Terry Varner!!!

On another note: While I'm waiting for the cylinder I will be shimming the swingarm. The KTM's have too much tolerance between the swingarm and frame which causes a lot of vibration. Instead of fixing the issue KTM just made the motor mounts thicker on the 125 so they wouldn't break but the vibration is still there. You must add shims to eliminate the vibration. It's a pain but well worth it.

Huskyman
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2/17/2017 12:32am Edited Date/Time 2/17/2017 12:33am
This was the main problem with my power valve on my Husqvarna TX125 2017. Had to pull the cylinder and grind it down on both sides to get the exhaust valve to runt smooth.


CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/17/2017 7:05am
brocsdad wrote:
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how...
Well I received a call from Varner and the #10 Collar (in above parts) was froze up and rusted on my PV. I'm not sure how the part could rust or freeze up on a garage kept bike with less than 10 hours. He is trying to get sides to work now but he did mention the OEM arms seem to be smoother than the F1 arms but he is going to try both.

I will keep everyone posted.
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version...
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version 2 they sent over. It would be nice if the F1 arms had a DLC or hardcoating, I think that would help the action with the pin sliding.
brocsdad wrote:
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back...
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back and forth while I was on the phone. He mentioned swapping the #11 (in the pic) which apparently opens the side ports and they helped everything work better.

The F1 arms have the potential to work better but he also had to smooth those out since they are a lot rougher than the OEM. So the F1 arms will need some cleanup work to function smoothly.

Thanks again to Terry Varner!!!

On another note: While I'm waiting for the cylinder I will be shimming the swingarm. The KTM's have too much tolerance between the swingarm and frame which causes a lot of vibration. Instead of fixing the issue KTM just made the motor mounts thicker on the 125 so they wouldn't break but the vibration is still there. You must add shims to eliminate the vibration. It's a pain but well worth it.

Can you post photos of what you are shimming? How do shims stop vibration? When you tighten your swingarm everything snugs up together?
brocsdad
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2/17/2017 7:34am
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version...
I like the design of the F1 arms but the slide area is very rough. I'm going to try and polish them and test the version 2 they sent over. It would be nice if the F1 arms had a DLC or hardcoating, I think that would help the action with the pin sliding.
brocsdad wrote:
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back...
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back and forth while I was on the phone. He mentioned swapping the #11 (in the pic) which apparently opens the side ports and they helped everything work better.

The F1 arms have the potential to work better but he also had to smooth those out since they are a lot rougher than the OEM. So the F1 arms will need some cleanup work to function smoothly.

Thanks again to Terry Varner!!!

On another note: While I'm waiting for the cylinder I will be shimming the swingarm. The KTM's have too much tolerance between the swingarm and frame which causes a lot of vibration. Instead of fixing the issue KTM just made the motor mounts thicker on the 125 so they wouldn't break but the vibration is still there. You must add shims to eliminate the vibration. It's a pain but well worth it.

Can you post photos of what you are shimming? How do shims stop vibration? When you tighten your swingarm everything snugs up together?
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people.

The shims take up the slack between the motor/frame and swingarm and frame. If you have ever worked on a jap bike you will notice the tolerance is very tight or hard to get the swingarm back in place. The KTM is easier to install but there is still a gap,

When you tighten everything the frame is only going to flex so much and you do not want to over tighten the swingarm nut to compensate.

I will post pics and shim sizes when I'm done with everything.



CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/17/2017 12:53pm
brocsdad wrote:
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back...
After 3 hours of cleaning up factory blemishes and polishing with porting tools my cylinder is on the way back. I heard him snapping it back and forth while I was on the phone. He mentioned swapping the #11 (in the pic) which apparently opens the side ports and they helped everything work better.

The F1 arms have the potential to work better but he also had to smooth those out since they are a lot rougher than the OEM. So the F1 arms will need some cleanup work to function smoothly.

Thanks again to Terry Varner!!!

On another note: While I'm waiting for the cylinder I will be shimming the swingarm. The KTM's have too much tolerance between the swingarm and frame which causes a lot of vibration. Instead of fixing the issue KTM just made the motor mounts thicker on the 125 so they wouldn't break but the vibration is still there. You must add shims to eliminate the vibration. It's a pain but well worth it.

Can you post photos of what you are shimming? How do shims stop vibration? When you tighten your swingarm everything snugs up together?
brocsdad wrote:
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people...
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people.

The shims take up the slack between the motor/frame and swingarm and frame. If you have ever worked on a jap bike you will notice the tolerance is very tight or hard to get the swingarm back in place. The KTM is easier to install but there is still a gap,

When you tighten everything the frame is only going to flex so much and you do not want to over tighten the swingarm nut to compensate.

I will post pics and shim sizes when I'm done with everything.



Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim will change the vibration?
brocsdad
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2/17/2017 2:06pm
Can you post photos of what you are shimming? How do shims stop vibration? When you tighten your swingarm everything snugs up together?
brocsdad wrote:
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people...
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people.

The shims take up the slack between the motor/frame and swingarm and frame. If you have ever worked on a jap bike you will notice the tolerance is very tight or hard to get the swingarm back in place. The KTM is easier to install but there is still a gap,

When you tighten everything the frame is only going to flex so much and you do not want to over tighten the swingarm nut to compensate.

I will post pics and shim sizes when I'm done with everything.



Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim...
Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim will change the vibration?
Believe me it will not compress everything all the way thru. The shims will take up the excess slack.

I have friends who managed and worked for the KTM factory teams and that is how I first found out. My friend had to even shim his kids KTM 85 a couple years back.

I mean think about the fact KTM made the huge motor mounts on the 16 125. That was due to the older 125's vibrating and breaking mounts.

2stmark
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2/21/2017 7:09pm
I took my left side PV cover off . Put a 5mm Allen in the pivot bolt & rotated PV . On deceleration or when lowering PV with Allen the pin on the barrel(12) in the sideplates arced slot bound up halfway down . So I cycled the PV open / close many times quickly
Now the bind is gone & it runs much better .Strange
ktm-5
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2/21/2017 8:16pm
brocsdad wrote:
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people...
Sure. I plan to do it this weekend if I can get a friend or my son to help. It makes it easier with 2 people.

The shims take up the slack between the motor/frame and swingarm and frame. If you have ever worked on a jap bike you will notice the tolerance is very tight or hard to get the swingarm back in place. The KTM is easier to install but there is still a gap,

When you tighten everything the frame is only going to flex so much and you do not want to over tighten the swingarm nut to compensate.

I will post pics and shim sizes when I'm done with everything.



Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim...
Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim will change the vibration?
brocsdad wrote:
Believe me it will not compress everything all the way thru. The shims will take up the excess slack. I have friends who managed and worked...
Believe me it will not compress everything all the way thru. The shims will take up the excess slack.

I have friends who managed and worked for the KTM factory teams and that is how I first found out. My friend had to even shim his kids KTM 85 a couple years back.

I mean think about the fact KTM made the huge motor mounts on the 16 125. That was due to the older 125's vibrating and breaking mounts.

Good idea I noticed our 16 250sxf was fairly loose and I'm going to make some shims myself. Do u take the total amount of slack and divide it or shim just one side?
brocsdad
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2/21/2017 9:13pm
Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim...
Cool thanks! But why not just let the swing arm compress in, it's going to squeeze until there's no more room. Not sure how a shim will change the vibration?
brocsdad wrote:
Believe me it will not compress everything all the way thru. The shims will take up the excess slack. I have friends who managed and worked...
Believe me it will not compress everything all the way thru. The shims will take up the excess slack.

I have friends who managed and worked for the KTM factory teams and that is how I first found out. My friend had to even shim his kids KTM 85 a couple years back.

I mean think about the fact KTM made the huge motor mounts on the 16 125. That was due to the older 125's vibrating and breaking mounts.

ktm-5 wrote:
Good idea I noticed our 16 250sxf was fairly loose and I'm going to make some shims myself. Do u take the total amount of slack...
Good idea I noticed our 16 250sxf was fairly loose and I'm going to make some shims myself. Do u take the total amount of slack and divide it or shim just one side?
This will be my first time and I'm having a friend help. He had to shim his sons 125 and his 350. We were going to shim it tonight but he had plans with his daughter. The plan is tomorrow night and I will post pics and shim sizes this weekend.
ktm-5
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2/21/2017 9:40pm
Sweet looking forward to it
F1 Moto
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2/24/2017 8:08pm
Thinking of continuing the development of the F1 Moto power valve arms.
The first sets were water jet cut & manufactured from brass.
The next iteration would be stainless steel & cnc machined this should overcome the slight issues of the prototypes.

Might be slighty more expensive @ $85.

Any interest in this ?

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