clicking noise after replacing piston

TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
Edited Date/Time 12/11/2012 12:17pm
Hi,

We just replaced the piston on my son's 2007 honda cr85 and now there is a clicking noise when it runs.

Here is the entire story line:

We put the new piston in, but heard the clicking noise so we thought the ring might not have been in quite right so we took it back apart and checked. It looked fine, but when we were putting everything back together again, we saw that the plastic sleeve in the valve reed was missing. I couldn't get just the sleeve so I ordered a whole new valve reed assembly. We put that in this afternoon and thought everything would be ok but the clicking noise is still there.

It happens as soon as you try and start it. I know it may be hard to ask for suggestions with this brief description, but I was wondering if any one might have had this before.

I am going to bring it to the dealer so I know everything gets done right, but if there are any ideas, I would still appreciate hearing them.

Thanks
Don
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89'cr dude
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2/13/2010 3:22pm
if your cylinder is worn enough it could be piston slap, although that is unlikely. Is the noise constantly there? or just after starting?
2/13/2010 6:56pm
I hope you used new piston pin circlips? Have you checked to see if any of the plastic reed pieces were in the lower end? How about the rod bearings (both upper and lower)?
TKF Racing
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2/13/2010 7:25pm
dude: the noise is constant and gets louder as you accelerate. I rode it up and down the road and it gets worse as I go faster

wrench: everything was brand new...rod bearings looked good...we checked everything over again.

It sounds like it may be in the clutch or around there. It sounds like gears may be clicking together.
R-acer
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Toronto CA
2/13/2010 9:07pm
bad crank? lower con rod.

The Shop

2/14/2010 6:11am
TKF Racing wrote:
dude: the noise is constant and gets louder as you accelerate. I rode it up and down the road and it gets worse as I go...
dude: the noise is constant and gets louder as you accelerate. I rode it up and down the road and it gets worse as I go faster

wrench: everything was brand new...rod bearings looked good...we checked everything over again.

It sounds like it may be in the clutch or around there. It sounds like gears may be clicking together.
check to see if the clutch basket is notched then, and double xchecxk the main bearings to make sure the crank isn't moving
89'cr dude
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2/15/2010 6:56am
oh, i had a chattering noise coming from my clutch, so i put in a new clutch kit with high compression springs and it went away (the old plates were totaled), although a notched clutch basket could be the problem. If the clutch basket is the problem, the bike should buck a lot when moving from a stand-still, and the clutch should feel very toutchy at low speeds, I hope this helps.
rallendude
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Adger, AL US
2/15/2010 2:02pm
Did you take off the right side engine cover during this repair? Any chance you took out the kick starter mechanism? Sounds like the kick start mech is in wrong, or maybe you've put the kick start lever on wrong and it's got the mechanism engaged all the time.

One other thing, make sure the shift shaft is pushed through all the way.

Does the sound get faster and slower when you rev the bike in neutral? What about when shifting gears?
TKF Racing
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2/15/2010 6:01pm
89dude: no...everything was pretty smooth. I only rode it for about 100 feet up the street and back. It was freezing and I didn't want to tick off any neighbors. It did shift smoothly and no bucking when I started moving.

rallen; no we just took the piston out. Took the gas tank off and worked on everything from above. The sound is kind of constant, but hard to exactly hear when I get going on it.

This is his second year on the bike, but last year was his first real hard racing season, Probably about 20 races and many more practices at Raceway Park. I didn't kick it over before we started the project, so it may just be a coincidence that it is happening now.

I hope to drop it off at the Honda dealer tomorrow and I will post what the culprit is.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
2/17/2010 9:50am
ok, just got the call from the shop.

The sleeve is out of round and the piston is slapping around inside. His suggestion was to have the sleeve bored out to fit a new piston.

I just talked to a place that does that and he suggested that I just have the sleeve filled and redrilled so I can use the brand new piston I have. I would send him the piston so he could make sure that is fits before he sends it back.

So my questions are:

1. I waited two years to change this piston. I guess I should do it every year now, especially if my son is going to be racing alot more, right?
2. What are the chances of this happening again. I can take it apart at the end of this season to put in a new piston and couldn't it be out of round again?
3. The fill, redrill process is about $200. The bore out is $200 plus the cost of the new piston. I know the bigger piston will get him a little more power, but since he is not using all of the bike's power now, he doesn't really need a bigger one. Is this the correct thinking?

Thanks again for all of the help and ideas.
SteveS
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2/17/2010 10:00am
A brand new cylinder is $350 from www.YamahaOfTroy.com

Change the piston and rings more often. There's a reason why people swoon over "fresh top ends"
chase187
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2/17/2010 10:32am
I would agree with Steve, buy a new cylinder and replace the top end a lot more.
2/17/2010 10:40am
These engines don't have sleeves, they are Nicasil coated.

Unless the plating is worn off, or you have a ridge up by the top of the cylinder... that's not it.

Go to the shop and ask them to show you exactly what's wrong.

I have these replated all the time and can help you out with that, but have the shop show you first.
2/17/2010 11:03am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 8:50pm
If it's hammering that hard and has that much wear / clearance on the bore, it's a wonder it has not broke a skirt off the piston. Check into Millenium for a precision cylinder repair. Most of the cylinders from them have less taper than a new OEM cylinder.

89'cr dude
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2/17/2010 12:20pm
geeez, my piston slap guess was right. thats wierd, a while back i owned an 01 cr80r with the original piston in it for 7 years, i finaly decided to put in a new weisco top end, and to my surprise the original stuff was in perfect shape, i still replaced it but i was surprised that after that much abuse it was still good. my point is, this bike must have been beaten beyond belief to have this happen, esspecialy sence the cylinder is Nicasil plated, wich brings me to another question, why did the shop tell you the sleeve was worn? Did you buy the bike new, or did the previous owner put in a sleeve?
SteveS
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2/17/2010 1:38pm
If it's been sleeved, save yourself the headaches and buy a new cylinder.
TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
2/17/2010 6:11pm
Thanks every one for the replies..

The bike was bought brand new in 2008. He rode it at the practice tracks before the races but actually raced a smaller bike that first year. Last year was the first year that he raced it and he is not a super fast rider, so the bike was not really beaten that badly.

We changed the oil the first weekend of every month.

My bad about what the shop actually told me. I was at work so my typing time was limited. They did say that the plating was worn and related it to the sleeve in the older bikes. He said the Nicasil was worn in a place and suggested a couple of places. The first was LA Sleeve, but they were a little expensive and it would take almost a month to get it back.

The other places were Millenium and PowerSealUSA.

This is getting a little out of my league now, so I will do my best to explain what they told me. If I send them the cylinder and the new piston, the will fill the cylinder and re-bore it to fit my piston. The piston is OEM and has only been in for this problem so to keep using it would not be a problem.

Do you think this is the best way to go. I looked at the new top ends and 350 to 400 bucks is kind of steep right now?

Thanks again to everyone for this guidance.
2/17/2010 7:02pm
I would contact Williams Moto Werx and let him replate it. Read your manual about the time frame for ringing the piston and the life of the piston also. Not keeping them in spec can cause what your going thru now. And keeping everything fresh will make make the bike run faster and now your racing faster is a good thing.
TKF Racing
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2/17/2010 7:15pm
xnational:
thanks I just sent them an email and asked them what they think I shoild do,how much and how long.

Thanks for the help
motofab36
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2/18/2010 6:20am
Getting your cylinder replated is not that big of a deal and not that uncommon. I have been using Power Seal for years, they do a great job and it will cost you less than a new cylinder. When you get it back it will look new and I believe their plating is better than original. With shipping it may be a couple week turn around time to get it back. Stay away from the steel borable sleeves, they are costly to buy and have installed and they seem to run hotter.
Call Chris or Jamie at Power Seal 866-845-1531 www.powersealusa.com
2/18/2010 9:08am
If you use Millenium and send your piston to be used, it will come back ready to run. On my dirt track two strokes, I am lucky to get 10 races in on them between piston/rings. Like Wrench said, increase your maintenance schedule.
motofab36
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2/18/2010 9:29am
OK, actually after a little more thought I think I know what the noise really is, Leaking Head Gasket. Honda still uses the metal gasket instead of rubber O rings. If you didn't hear this noise before you took it apart then why would you hear it so much now. It's common for the heads on CR 85's to be slightly warped and need to be resurfaced or replaced.
Did you replace the head gasket when you did the top end? I recomend before you take their word for it and send the cylinder out and spend $200+, I would buy another head gasket and take the head to a shop and have it resurfaced or a new one is only $77.00 and a gasket is $16.00.

Piston slap sounds more like a rattle than a "clicking" or ticking.
TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
2/18/2010 2:24pm
motofab:

Yes we replaced the head gasket. I think I may try that first and if the noise is still there I will send it out to PowersealUSA.

Thanks for the suggestion.
tunedlength
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2/18/2010 9:47pm
I would contact Williams Moto Werx and let him replate it. Read your manual about the time frame for ringing the piston and the life of...
I would contact Williams Moto Werx and let him replate it. Read your manual about the time frame for ringing the piston and the life of the piston also. Not keeping them in spec can cause what your going thru now. And keeping everything fresh will make make the bike run faster and now your racing faster is a good thing.
X2
89'cr dude
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2/19/2010 3:05pm
Once your bike is completly together, remember to warm it up. The main thing that weakens motors is not warming it up, because stock pistons are cast wich means they will not be as strong as aftermarket pistons, but they expand very little. aftermarket pistons such as weisco or vertex are forged wich means they are much stronger then stock cast pistons, but they require a very long warm up period after the bike is started because they expand much more then a cast type piston. basicly what im trying to say is that you might want to just take off, but that extra minute or two can save your engine over a long period of time.
TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
2/19/2010 6:45pm
thanks dude: I will make sure we give it a good amount of warm up time even though the new piston is an OEM.

I just want to get this fixed and get him ready to get going. I have already told him that we probably wont make the March 6th practice at Raceway Park (which was iffy anyway because it is till kind of cold here), but I would like to get out there pretty soon after that.

Thanks
motofab36
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2/24/2010 7:12am
Whats the latest? Did you try a new or resurfaced head and new gasket?
TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
2/25/2010 5:46pm
fab:

Just shipped it to PowerSealUSA today for replating and asked them to check if the head was warped.

With all the snow here in Jersey, I think he may not be riding again until he is ready for the 450's

Thanks
motofab36
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2/26/2010 6:58am
Cool they will do a good job. I'm just not covinced it was piston slap.
TKF Racing
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Rockaway, NJ US
2/26/2010 4:09pm
I sure hope that's what it was and that this fixes it.

If it doesn't I don't know what else to do. I don't want to take it back to the dealer since they told me that this would fix it. If it doesn't I won't trust them to bring it back there and I don't know enough to rip any more of it apart

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