KYB ON KTM swap.

Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1941st
Markee
Edited Date/Time 7/2/2015 11:53am
Done. Testing tomorrow

|
slackinoff
Profile picture for user slackinoff
Posts
307
Joined
11/18/2014
Location
Nacogdoches, TX US
slackinoff 5/15/2015 12:49pm
5/15/2015 12:49pm
I hope you post up some info how you did it. It would be a good read.

The Shop

See All »
CarlinoJoeVideo
Profile picture for user CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7358
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
2361st
CarlinoJoeVideo 5/15/2015 6:15pm
5/15/2015 6:15pm
Can't wait to hear how it works! What was the process for fitment? Did you just change the internals?
factory99
Profile picture for user factory99
Posts
66
Joined
11/21/2009
Location
North Canton, OH US
factory99 5/15/2015 6:41pm
5/15/2015 6:41pm
What work was involved to fit the brembo caliper to the Yamaha forks?
hoova
Profile picture for user hoova
Posts
69
Joined
3/5/2012
Location
AU
hoova 5/16/2015 4:41am
5/16/2015 4:41am
Awesome, how was this done?
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 5/16/2015 5:10am
5/16/2015 5:10am
More please.
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1941st
Markee 5/16/2015 5:17am
5/16/2015 5:17am
Had to bore top tree .074 and shim bottom tree .015. Made spacers to use the KTM wheel with the smaller axle.

The biggest chore is keeping the brembo brake. The KYB from a yamaha has a 250mm disc while the ktm has a 260mm disc. Basically had to totally rework the brembo bracket. I'm talking weld, mill and lathe it into the perfect location to hold the brake caliper.

Would it had been less work to swap internals? Maybe so, but the 26mm axle on my 2013 is a part of the problem. KTM I believe uses a smaller 20mm axle on newer machines.

If it is a drastic improvement, then I'll get a custom set of trees made from ride engineering or applied. If its not a drastic improvement, I can go backwards for 80 bucks (new brembo bracket), and at least get a rubber mounted top tree which I've really been wanting. We'll see, testing today!
respect_the_beast 5/16/2015 6:20am
5/16/2015 6:20am
Applied already sells (over the phone) clamps for the SX that accept the entire YZ front end (forks, axle, wheel... brake) for those of you interested.

Excited to read your review!!!
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1941st
Markee 5/16/2015 1:35pm
5/16/2015 1:35pm
Well, just got back. Excellent! Keep in mind I did not revalve, Its new fluid, skf seals and correct spring rate. Really impressed. The track has hard super hard pack and sand. Off cambers, ruts, berms, big and decent jumps.

The biggest difference across the board is traction, front end sticks now. High speed sweeper standing up braking you can now feel what the tire is doing, not that "what is this thing going to do" feeling.

Going from someone else's measurement, Was told the kyb vs the wp has a 5mm difference in lug offset. Meaning the kyb should steer better and give up some stability. Steer better it does and there was no noticeable stability issues at all or so far. I wasn't worried pinned hitting 120ft double with braking bumps right up to the face.

I found that I wanted to use the front end more than trying to compensate when landing.

Blah blah, its a better fork, i knew it was and i'm glad I swapped. I had a plan to maybe manufacture at least the wheel spacers to help the swap along for others interested.
KTMShane699
Profile picture for user KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT US
KTMShane699 5/16/2015 11:57pm
5/16/2015 11:57pm
Markee wrote:
Had to bore top tree .074 and shim bottom tree .015. Made spacers to use the KTM wheel with the smaller axle. The biggest chore is...
Had to bore top tree .074 and shim bottom tree .015. Made spacers to use the KTM wheel with the smaller axle.

The biggest chore is keeping the brembo brake. The KYB from a yamaha has a 250mm disc while the ktm has a 260mm disc. Basically had to totally rework the brembo bracket. I'm talking weld, mill and lathe it into the perfect location to hold the brake caliper.

Would it had been less work to swap internals? Maybe so, but the 26mm axle on my 2013 is a part of the problem. KTM I believe uses a smaller 20mm axle on newer machines.

If it is a drastic improvement, then I'll get a custom set of trees made from ride engineering or applied. If its not a drastic improvement, I can go backwards for 80 bucks (new brembo bracket), and at least get a rubber mounted top tree which I've really been wanting. We'll see, testing today!
Hey Markee,

Just a quick question about the brake caliper job you did. You mentioned welding and machining to get it in a good spot since the rotor is 10mm larger on the KTM. Does anyone make an oversize rotor kit for the Yamaha? If so, if it's a +10mm rotor would the bracket from the kit make that an easier mod or are the mounting dimensions of the KTM Brembo caliper completely different? I don't plan on doing the KYB conversion myself, just thinking out loud for those who don't have access to fabricating abilities like that. You'd see a lot more people do this mod if you could buy triple clamps, wheel spacers and a caliper mount and do it as a true bolt on.

Just some thoughts! Glad it worked great for you.

Shane
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 5/17/2015 1:59am
5/17/2015 1:59am
KTMShane699 wrote:
Hey Markee, Just a quick question about the brake caliper job you did. You mentioned welding and machining to get it in a good spot since...
Hey Markee,

Just a quick question about the brake caliper job you did. You mentioned welding and machining to get it in a good spot since the rotor is 10mm larger on the KTM. Does anyone make an oversize rotor kit for the Yamaha? If so, if it's a +10mm rotor would the bracket from the kit make that an easier mod or are the mounting dimensions of the KTM Brembo caliper completely different? I don't plan on doing the KYB conversion myself, just thinking out loud for those who don't have access to fabricating abilities like that. You'd see a lot more people do this mod if you could buy triple clamps, wheel spacers and a caliper mount and do it as a true bolt on.

Just some thoughts! Glad it worked great for you.

Shane
Could be an offset of the mount to overcome tho too, the rotor has to be in the same spot, but the bracket itself could be any width or set and machined in any place.

It's interesting tho! Ohlins still whispering sweet nothings in my ear... I want pillows!
reded
Profile picture for user reded
Posts
3685
Joined
3/26/2011
Location
KS US
reded 5/17/2015 2:26am
5/17/2015 2:26am
Markee wrote:
Well, just got back. Excellent! Keep in mind I did not revalve, Its new fluid, skf seals and correct spring rate. Really impressed. The track has...
Well, just got back. Excellent! Keep in mind I did not revalve, Its new fluid, skf seals and correct spring rate. Really impressed. The track has hard super hard pack and sand. Off cambers, ruts, berms, big and decent jumps.

The biggest difference across the board is traction, front end sticks now. High speed sweeper standing up braking you can now feel what the tire is doing, not that "what is this thing going to do" feeling.

Going from someone else's measurement, Was told the kyb vs the wp has a 5mm difference in lug offset. Meaning the kyb should steer better and give up some stability. Steer better it does and there was no noticeable stability issues at all or so far. I wasn't worried pinned hitting 120ft double with braking bumps right up to the face.

I found that I wanted to use the front end more than trying to compensate when landing.

Blah blah, its a better fork, i knew it was and i'm glad I swapped. I had a plan to maybe manufacture at least the wheel spacers to help the swap along for others interested.
This is definitely interesting stuff. It seems like the front end on these bikes is very vague feeling, offering very little feedback, never feels planted and doesn't inspire much confidence. I'm one of the apparent few who doesn't think that the WP fork totally sucks, I just wish the front tire would offer a precise feel in corners. I might be looking into this setup.
KTMShane699
Profile picture for user KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT US
KTMShane699 5/17/2015 3:47am
5/17/2015 3:47am
Crush wrote:
Could be an offset of the mount to overcome tho too, the rotor has to be in the same spot, but the bracket itself could be...
Could be an offset of the mount to overcome tho too, the rotor has to be in the same spot, but the bracket itself could be any width or set and machined in any place.

It's interesting tho! Ohlins still whispering sweet nothings in my ear... I want pillows!
The Ohlins is fantastic stuff. I ordered WP Cone Valves for my FE after reading all the horror stories of them and their inconsistency, even on the new bike. Sadly, it won't be until next year that I get to see how they are thanks to my leg. I have a very long road to recovery on that before I entertain the thought of much else.

And even with an offset to overcome, it may be easier with that bracket to shim or mill. Seems like far less fabricating potentially. I think if someone put together a kit like this, it would have insane sales potential.

The ideas are endless and some of the fabrication I've seen pulled off here on vital is amazing with some superior quality. I wish I had the patience, talent and ability to pull off some of what I've seen here. Some works level stuff in it's own right.

Shane
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 5/17/2015 5:06am
5/17/2015 5:06am
Oh fuck that's right, your leg! How's it coming? Doc's happy?

Agree on a conversion kit. If Applied sold a set of clamps, a bracket for the brake and spacers for the wheel, the price of YZF forks would triple! haha
KTMShane699
Profile picture for user KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT US
KTMShane699 5/17/2015 5:54am
5/17/2015 5:54am
My leg is doing ok so far. Can't believe it's been a month already. Spent from Friday-Friday in the hospital having surgery two and three. There's a crazy amount of hardware in my leg now...20+ screw, three plates and some wire. The doc says he's happy with how the repair went. I did a little PT in the hospital and start with the therapist at home today. I still have a long road ahead of me in terms of recovery. Quite honestly I don't see myself back on the bike this year. With a 6-8 month recovery time (which may be conservative to doing something like riding), it'll be October to December. By then winter will be set it once again. It kills me to not be riding this year, but it's the smart decision. I have to think about my family, my career and long term. I will ride again, but in 2016. Might sell my 250 just to recover some money. I didn't need two bikes in the garage to begin with and now that I can't ride them I definitely don't need two and should be responsible.

Reading vital has at least kept me feeling involved! Sorry for the hijack Markee!

Shane

Pit Row

See All »
Crush
Profile picture for user Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
Crush 5/17/2015 7:17am
5/17/2015 7:17am
haha... Yeah bikes sitting there is not fun, know that feeling, tho I also completely understand the family/work/career aspect, I've been the most boring bastard ever the last few years with work and uni. Bugger all riding and not much hanging with my mates but you gotta do it–I just go look at my bike in the garage every now and then haha.

Hope the leg gets right man, take your time!
rocketsocks26 5/17/2015 8:10am
5/17/2015 8:10am
shane hng in their bud! they make dirtbikes every year, so don't worry about them, take care of u and ur family, bikes ill lwas be their. remember things always will work out
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1941st
Markee 5/18/2015 5:07pm
5/18/2015 5:07pm
Markee wrote:
Had to bore top tree .074 and shim bottom tree .015. Made spacers to use the KTM wheel with the smaller axle. The biggest chore is...
Had to bore top tree .074 and shim bottom tree .015. Made spacers to use the KTM wheel with the smaller axle.

The biggest chore is keeping the brembo brake. The KYB from a yamaha has a 250mm disc while the ktm has a 260mm disc. Basically had to totally rework the brembo bracket. I'm talking weld, mill and lathe it into the perfect location to hold the brake caliper.

Would it had been less work to swap internals? Maybe so, but the 26mm axle on my 2013 is a part of the problem. KTM I believe uses a smaller 20mm axle on newer machines.

If it is a drastic improvement, then I'll get a custom set of trees made from ride engineering or applied. If its not a drastic improvement, I can go backwards for 80 bucks (new brembo bracket), and at least get a rubber mounted top tree which I've really been wanting. We'll see, testing today!
KTMShane699 wrote:
Hey Markee, Just a quick question about the brake caliper job you did. You mentioned welding and machining to get it in a good spot since...
Hey Markee,

Just a quick question about the brake caliper job you did. You mentioned welding and machining to get it in a good spot since the rotor is 10mm larger on the KTM. Does anyone make an oversize rotor kit for the Yamaha? If so, if it's a +10mm rotor would the bracket from the kit make that an easier mod or are the mounting dimensions of the KTM Brembo caliper completely different? I don't plan on doing the KYB conversion myself, just thinking out loud for those who don't have access to fabricating abilities like that. You'd see a lot more people do this mod if you could buy triple clamps, wheel spacers and a caliper mount and do it as a true bolt on.

Just some thoughts! Glad it worked great for you.

Shane
It could be out there but I have not seen it or found a brembo brake bracket to upgrade a bike with KYB. I'm assuming KTM has a manufactures contract.

Its just not the difference in rotor diameter. Its also the difference in what "time" the caliper sits. Think of a clock, the caliper can still be positioned the same distance away from the center of the axle, but can be closer to 3 oclock than 4 oclock and the other way around, but the brake bracket makes up that alignment depending time/degree.

The modifications I made where not a easy 10mm offset from mounting holes.

If the brembo brake bracket didn't hold the shoes in, it would be way easier to manufacture a aftermarket bracket.
JBernard_401
Profile picture for user JBernard_401
Posts
1320
Joined
10/29/2013
Location
Boulder, CO US
JBernard_401 5/18/2015 10:30pm
5/18/2015 10:30pm
Markee wrote:
It could be out there but I have not seen it or found a brembo brake bracket to upgrade a bike with KYB. I'm assuming KTM...
It could be out there but I have not seen it or found a brembo brake bracket to upgrade a bike with KYB. I'm assuming KTM has a manufactures contract.

Its just not the difference in rotor diameter. Its also the difference in what "time" the caliper sits. Think of a clock, the caliper can still be positioned the same distance away from the center of the axle, but can be closer to 3 oclock than 4 oclock and the other way around, but the brake bracket makes up that alignment depending time/degree.

The modifications I made where not a easy 10mm offset from mounting holes.

If the brembo brake bracket didn't hold the shoes in, it would be way easier to manufacture a aftermarket bracket.
putting a brembo f/r caliper on my kx500AF (showa forks).
mounting holes are different everywhere. lug/bracket pattern, degree of rotation for the caliper, and l/r spacing. so every axis lol.
its turning into a bit of work, but dont worry i'll get it.
hellion
Profile picture for user hellion
Posts
1035
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Westfield, MA US
hellion 5/19/2015 5:22am
5/19/2015 5:22am
Shane, the Brembo is a superior brake. Even if he kept the stock Yamaha caliper and went with an oversized rotor it would still not match up. I've actually looked for a bracket to mount a Brembo caliper on my YZ and couldn't find one. If Markee decides to build those too I think I'd pony up for one myself.
Premixed112
Profile picture for user Premixed112
Posts
850
Joined
2/19/2015
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
Premixed112 6/23/2015 1:20pm
6/23/2015 1:20pm
I have a '14 250sx as my current bike and an '06 YZ250 that's completely in pieces right now. My plan was to get the YZ back together and either keep it to myself and have as a spare bike, or sell. But now I'm considering doing this swap.. The obvious weak link in my SX is the suspension, especially the forks. I noticed how much harsher they were right when I started riding this bike. Landings were harder and braking bumps nearly rip the bars from my hands. And if that could be corrected by throwing the forks from the YZ on it (which are already sprung for my weight), that might be something new to consider... Will check back on this thread.
Shauns867
Profile picture for user Shauns867
Posts
52
Joined
10/30/2013
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
Shauns867 6/25/2015 10:56am
6/25/2015 10:56am
i definitely am interested in this. Can you post a picture of your caliper bracket and what did you do for wheel spacers and the shim on the bottom clamp
Shauns867
Profile picture for user Shauns867
Posts
52
Joined
10/30/2013
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
Shauns867 6/29/2015 4:02pm
6/29/2015 4:02pm
Markee wrote:
Done. Testing tomorrow [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/05/15/91170/s1200_IMG_20150515_150317621_HDR.jpg[/img]
Done. Testing tomorrow

i am really interested could you post some pics of the wheel spacers and the caliper bracket sometime?
copsey
Profile picture for user copsey
Posts
89
Joined
5/3/2008
Location
AL US
copsey 7/2/2015 11:53am
7/2/2015 11:53am
I have a set of KYB internals fitted to the 4cs fork legs for sale. They were built for my 350xcf but I have hit my head a few too many times and need some time away from the bike. If anyone is interested shoot me a message on here and I can send over pictures, etc.

Post a reply to: KYB ON KTM swap.