('96-'98 RM fork upgrade to '07)

7/29/2016 11:27am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2016 11:30am
didn't know I'd already commented earlier.
jimgoose
Posts
10
Joined
8/5/2017
Location
AU
8/5/2017 6:47pm Edited Date/Time 1/13/2018 6:02pm
I have a question about this conventional swap. I did this swap to my '05 YZ125 using the Yamaha clamps with shims. Is there risk of...
I have a question about this conventional swap. I did this swap to my '05 YZ125 using the Yamaha clamps with shims. Is there risk of bottoming the dust seals against bottom clamp? I noticed the RM clamps are angled up to allow more travel. Does anyone know the advertised travel of the '97 Suzuki forks? If I add enough oil to the forks, will it reduce the risk of bottoming? Or should I just use the RM clamps (since I have them). I would need to press out the stem and figure out a front number plate etc.
Yes your right the rm lower clamp does allow for an extra 20 mm of travel.
I am in the middle of doin a rm to wr 2015 swap using the rm clamps but i must have a new post /stem made up from 7075 or 6061, t6 alluminium as the top bearing surface and the threads must be moved up at least 10mm higher,because the headset part of the frame on the wr is approx 10 mm longer.
i have dummy set them up and taken pics ,will try to use as an avatar photo.

But having said that with the forks slid right through the original rm triples and a ziptie around the leg to check travel over a big jump the wiper seal still contacted ziptie against the triple clamp enough to dislocate the wiper seals outer spring.
jimgoose
Posts
10
Joined
8/5/2017
Location
AU
8/5/2017 7:20pm Edited Date/Time 1/13/2018 6:07pm
I have a question about this conventional swap. I did this swap to my '05 YZ125 using the Yamaha clamps with shims. Is there risk of...
I have a question about this conventional swap. I did this swap to my '05 YZ125 using the Yamaha clamps with shims. Is there risk of bottoming the dust seals against bottom clamp? I noticed the RM clamps are angled up to allow more travel. Does anyone know the advertised travel of the '97 Suzuki forks? If I add enough oil to the forks, will it reduce the risk of bottoming? Or should I just use the RM clamps (since I have them). I would need to press out the stem and figure out a front number plate etc.
jimgoose wrote:
Yes your right the rm lower clamp does allow for an extra 20 mm of travel. I am in the middle of doin a rm to...
Yes your right the rm lower clamp does allow for an extra 20 mm of travel.
I am in the middle of doin a rm to wr 2015 swap using the rm clamps but i must have a new post /stem made up from 7075 or 6061, t6 alluminium as the top bearing surface and the threads must be moved up at least 10mm higher,because the headset part of the frame on the wr is approx 10 mm longer.
i have dummy set them up and taken pics ,will try to use as an avatar photo.

But having said that with the forks slid right through the original rm triples and a ziptie around the leg to check travel over a big jump the wiper seal still contacted ziptie against the triple clamp enough to dislocate the wiper seals outer spring.




see the 97 rm has a 12mm dia damper rod.
the 98 has a 10mm dia damper rod.

So i wasnt feeling the joy from these forks with some seal stiction and breaking in the new anodising issues.
i decidied to run a bit of extra midvalve freeplay.
got and old dampmer rod and mid piston dummied it up with a nut holding it in place,took some feeler gauges and worked out that loosening the nut 45 degrees equalled 0.08mm.loosened the mid nut 1/8 of a turn.
Now im runing that .08 mm endfloat it has tranformed the bike into a point and shoot bike.i got a second opinion from a random bloke that i had just met and hadnt got his 99 rmx off the trailer yet that took my wr for a quick spin through ruts over roots and small g outs.i expected negative feed back from him as we all know rmx forks are the king of plush.
He said he could'nt believe how plush these forks were and im running .44kg mm springs in the front.with 420 ml of oil in each leg.the bottoming resistance is insane,i have tyre marks on my inner gaurd and never felt one thump, Ive slid the forks through the triples as far as possible and still no headshake at all.and the thing turns on a dime.These 98 rm forks perform better on a mx track and on a trail than the sss kyabas that were on the bike For me any way.Im betting if you spent $600 on the sss forks and compared them to my finished showas the showas would win overall.
The word of the day is sure footed.

So next service im increasing that freeplay to .12mm and installing the skf low stiction seals along with polishing the chome inner legs.

The added bonus is i can transfer these forks to my next wr and so on
jimgoose
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Location
AU
3/3/2018 4:30am Edited Date/Time 3/9/2018 11:36pm
So after trying racetech wr front .44 kg fork springs pt number fsrp 444744 which race tech sold me as rm springs i pulled them out and replaced them with Eibachs .45kg pt number 983-045 which didnt rub inside the stantions due to the smaller correct ID.
I made an improved bottom spring locator by welding the perimeter of 2 collar washers back to back .
On the mid valve i copied the low speed shimstack Tuner 1's post from thumpertalks 97rm 250 post https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/544779-97-suzuki-rm125250-forks/ but added 1 stage higher on the comp due to the 97 having a 12mm dampening rod and my 98's having a 10mm dampening rod which displaces less oil on the comp stroke
MID LOW SPEED COMP is now {starting stack from the mid piston face}
13.2x.10 mm : bleedshim
[6]20x.10 mm
collar/sleeve 8mm od - modified in length to create mid valve float
11x.10 mm
11x.20 mm
Base washer
Running .21 shim float on the sleeved shimstack { most important proceedure of the build }any more than .25 float should require a check spring and retainer to be fitted {otherwise noisey}. i sanded that collar/sleeve to the required height always checking the size all around it with the vernier.

On rebound i ran the 97 250 thumpertalk spec but a tad lighter because i guessed on rebound the 98 would displace more oil {correct me if you know better} stack as follows from the piston face:
REBOUND
[2]20x.10 mm
10.2 mm
20x.10 mm
17x.10 mm
14x.10 mm
10x.10 mm
9x.20 mm
11x.2 mm
12.5x2.5 washer
High speed dual stage race tech shimstack is as follows
20x.10
11x.10 :crossover shim
[6]20x.10
18.3 x.10 thats all i had,call it an 18 mm od
16x.10
14x.10
13x.10
12x.10
11x.10
10x.10
9x.10 on a FMGV 2320 gold valve
The figure in brackets being how many of that shim ie:[6] and the rest is only a single shim.
running 420ml of motorex 5wt in each leg
Chrome legs were polished along with the dampening rods and HD skf low stiction seals and wipers fitted to the rehard anodised lower legs using genuine suzuki bushes.
I watched those forks moving up and down following the contour of tiny ripples on hard pack at 60kph which even my crf 230 with the open chamber xr 600 forks didnt move at all on.
Rode the same trails as i did on the 230 and its better on ruts ,roots, logs,rocks and on big landings.{ gotta put the cartridge 600 forks back on the crf }.
Now i see what the hypes about.and its been a long slog {almost 10 months} and i dont suggest doing these mods unless you really want to test your patience .Im still waiting another week for the custom cnc top triple clamp.

rocktest
https://youtu.be/9Lzb8_TWku0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lzb8_TWku0
Always looks smaller on camera as we go proers all know.
The air tells the height and the forks handle that too easy.
Press pause play until you can see for yourself that the forks are compressed 8/10ths of their travel.
Plush , surefooted and predictable have saved my ass 10 times a sunday
1

The Shop

beamer
Posts
782
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8/16/2006
Location
Squaw River CA
3/5/2018 12:32pm
jimgoose wrote:
So after trying racetech wr front .44 kg fork springs pt number fsrp 444744 which race tech sold me as rm springs i pulled them out...
So after trying racetech wr front .44 kg fork springs pt number fsrp 444744 which race tech sold me as rm springs i pulled them out and replaced them with Eibachs .45kg pt number 983-045 which didnt rub inside the stantions due to the smaller correct ID.
I made an improved bottom spring locator by welding the perimeter of 2 collar washers back to back .
On the mid valve i copied the low speed shimstack Tuner 1's post from thumpertalks 97rm 250 post https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/544779-97-suzuki-rm125250-forks/ but added 1 stage higher on the comp due to the 97 having a 12mm dampening rod and my 98's having a 10mm dampening rod which displaces less oil on the comp stroke
MID LOW SPEED COMP is now {starting stack from the mid piston face}
13.2x.10 mm : bleedshim
[6]20x.10 mm
collar/sleeve 8mm od - modified in length to create mid valve float
11x.10 mm
11x.20 mm
Base washer
Running .21 shim float on the sleeved shimstack { most important proceedure of the build }any more than .25 float should require a check spring and retainer to be fitted {otherwise noisey}. i sanded that collar/sleeve to the required height always checking the size all around it with the vernier.

On rebound i ran the 97 250 thumpertalk spec but a tad lighter because i guessed on rebound the 98 would displace more oil {correct me if you know better} stack as follows from the piston face:
REBOUND
[2]20x.10 mm
10.2 mm
20x.10 mm
17x.10 mm
14x.10 mm
10x.10 mm
9x.20 mm
11x.2 mm
12.5x2.5 washer
High speed dual stage race tech shimstack is as follows
20x.10
11x.10 :crossover shim
[6]20x.10
18.3 x.10 thats all i had,call it an 18 mm od
16x.10
14x.10
13x.10
12x.10
11x.10
10x.10
9x.10 on a FMGV 2320 gold valve
The figure in brackets being how many of that shim ie:[6] and the rest is only a single shim.
running 420ml of motorex 5wt in each leg
Chrome legs were polished along with the dampening rods and HD skf low stiction seals and wipers fitted to the rehard anodised lower legs using genuine suzuki bushes.
I watched those forks moving up and down following the contour of tiny ripples on hard pack at 60kph which even my crf 230 with the open chamber xr 600 forks didnt move at all on.
Rode the same trails as i did on the 230 and its better on ruts ,roots, logs,rocks and on big landings.{ gotta put the cartridge 600 forks back on the crf }.
Now i see what the hypes about.and its been a long slog {almost 10 months} and i dont suggest doing these mods unless you really want to test your patience .Im still waiting another week for the custom cnc top triple clamp.

rocktest
https://youtu.be/9Lzb8_TWku0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lzb8_TWku0
Always looks smaller on camera as we go proers all know.
The air tells the height and the forks handle that too easy.
Press pause play until you can see for yourself that the forks are compressed 8/10ths of their travel.
Plush , surefooted and predictable have saved my ass 10 times a sunday
Was there anything tricky about getting your wheel set to work, with the spacers ect?

Is that by chance the lower triple clamp off the RM as well or did you have the shims made for the different size of fork uppers?


jimgoose
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10
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8/5/2017
Location
AU
3/6/2018 3:37am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2018 3:50am
I used a 2000or 2002" i think" model rm 250 axle and cut the spacers down to suit the wr front wheel it required a 1mm approx spacer on the caliper + longer bolts for disc alignment. Wr caliper was the same bolt pattern as the rm fork.
The head stem on that rm lower triple clamp is about 10mm too short. i had to press the stem out and turn up a new stem out of 7075 solid bar.I turned the top half of the stem down to the wr bearing size but the bottom was pretty much a rm sizeing.yes rm lower clamp with a bit filed off where it clipped the front wr lock stop. top clamp is stock for now but im having a new one made that accomodates wr rubber bar mounts with 4 posi options{like the wr has}$600.
hardest part is the brake hose and speedo routing/mounts etc,this will do your head in big time not too mention fork gators,im not running any gators at the moment, but im workin on the stock rm numberplate/gator reinforced with a hole cut in it for the headlight.did try modded 94 kx 500 gators but the stiction through the sliders was terrible.could use fork boots i suppose .
tuggy450
Posts
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Location
Massapequa, NY US
3/9/2018 5:31am
Great info here, Currently doing a swap onto 94 cr250 with 97 forks. Applied zuk triples. Pressed stem from oem triple looks real close to CR length. Bearings were different I think. ID, OD, Width 30mm,52mm,16,mm for the CR and 30,mm 51mm, 15mm, for the RM . So i figure I need the 30mm, 52mm 16mm but I really need to measure it all up for myself.

Jim great into on your threads. I actually have 2 sets of 97 forks But lost my link to the manual I had for disassembling them uggh.
jimgoose
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10
Joined
8/5/2017
Location
AU
3/9/2018 10:31pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2018 6:24pm
tuggy450 wrote:
Great info here, Currently doing a swap onto 94 cr250 with 97 forks. Applied zuk triples. Pressed stem from oem triple looks real close to CR...
Great info here, Currently doing a swap onto 94 cr250 with 97 forks. Applied zuk triples. Pressed stem from oem triple looks real close to CR length. Bearings were different I think. ID, OD, Width 30mm,52mm,16,mm for the CR and 30,mm 51mm, 15mm, for the RM . So i figure I need the 30mm, 52mm 16mm but I really need to measure it all up for myself.

Jim great into on your threads. I actually have 2 sets of 97 forks But lost my link to the manual I had for disassembling them uggh.
i checked out this site and it impies they run the same bearings .but double check.
https://www.allballsracing.com/index.php/forkconversion

i have 97 lowers on 98 internals and uppers.
i hope this following prceedure is correct?
After unscrewing the top hex nut and draining the forks upside down .remove the top tank from the dampening cartridge,then small forkspring retainer circlip and forkspring.
Turn the bottom rebound clicker gently all the way in clockwise then out again 2 clicks"this helps a little later in dissasembly"
The lower base nut rebound clicker valve is what i undone next , loosen it a tad with a light rattle gun or tap a breakerbar with a plastic hammer at first then unscrew it. tha nut wil completelt unscrew from the collar at the base whilst its still connected to the dampening rod. then i used multi grips to twist and pull that bottom seal block out " it has 4 notches cut out on its perimeter".The lower circlip is sqaure section on the 97 and is fuggn hard to remove without sctratching the inside of the lower leg.
When you get that circlip out grind the ends on angles so if you ever have to remove them again its a little easier {and i meant a little less impossible}you will see what i mean when your finger has a hole in it .lol .I ground 1 on the wrong angle making it worse at first.LOL
You can compress the forks now and tap up and down bottoming them out which pushed the collar sping outa the bottom leg.
That bottom nut valve is the next thing youve got to pay attention to as it screws up to a lock nut sleeve that has 2 flats on it { this is all at the bottom of the fork}
I just loosened the 2flats locknut then wound it in counting how many turns till it bottomed out {i got 1 and a 1/4 turns}which i wrote down for reassenbly,this dictates your topout length.Then try to hold the rebound clicker in the one position with a screwdriver as to not strain that thin remote adjusting rod inside the chrome dampening rod when unscrewing the clicker base adjuster nut.
Most important after removing the basenut clicker and locknut sleeve is to deburr/file off the sharp edges on that 12mm dampening rod thread .Also very important is to wrap heaps of teflon plumbers tape around that 12mm thread before sliding whilst twisting a well lubricated dampening rod through the lower seal {i wrecked 2 seals} if you damage seals you need to be very handy at removing that lower seal/bush block as it has punched marks into the threads and you cannot be stingey on drilling the punch marks out,also applying heat . i fugged a cartridge thread and block up as well,not too mention the cost of the $20 seal.Yes i had to buy a spare set of forks as that cardtridge is $800+ from showa new .So try not to wreck that seal is the best advice i can give .
Your inner chrome legs come out through the bottom of the allunimium lower leg ,so dont try pulling them through the top unless you want more damage.
The top cartridge tank /fork spring and assy is pretty much self explanetary.just take a bit of care,but be sure to teflon tape that dampening rod lower thread again on reassemby.
When you reassemble take care not to put too much pressure on the base clicker remote rod its very thin" it runs inside that chrome dampening rod" and you have to hold the adjuster with a screw driver or clickit 10 times when winding the nut back on a bit {then rinse and repeat uno what i mean) . dont let the needle tighten right up in the mid valve if possible as it can jam and strip that remote thin rod.
good luck its worth it


Will post up another vid that i proved to myself these forks are forgiving.
Rough fast flowing track with jumps although it wasnt a race, i give the guy on the 2017 ktm 300 a fair head start of 300 meters whilst i secretly turn the go pro on. You can see how dusty it is when im reeling him in but i just hit the rough sh1t and at one point i almost endo it over a washout with a kicker"wornout square edge jumpface"and im almost certain i would have been over the bars with th kyabas inverteds.when the ktm was in dust he fell 400 meters behind.Many times ive thought i would go over the bars even on 1st gear sh1t and im running my front as low as possible to the point the top of the forks are almost touching the bottom of the bars and i have bar raisers on.,Doesnt make sense maybe the rm forks have 20 less travel but its what they are doing in that travel that suits me.
jimgoose
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10
Joined
8/5/2017
Location
AU
5/3/2018 4:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2018 5:02pm
I think this is finished now and i used an original style front number plate from a 98 rm ,laminated the back with 1/8 alluminium plate using alloy cold rivets , a layer of sikaflex in between and cut away all the unessecary plastic etc .
This gave me room to mount a cheap $25 headlight {off ebay } whilst retaining a fair amount of strength.the fork protector part of the plate has a front brake hose mount built in and the sliders dont touch the fork at any point= 0 stiction in that area.when cutting the holes to remove weight its best not to make round shapes as it doesnt look good. If you look closely at the second photo at the sides of the numberplate next to where the rectangle holes were cut out they have been pulled in giving a peanut shape to the numberplate.I had to use a paint hot stripper gun and heated the plate whilst pushing it in with a block of wood wrapped in baking paper{non stick}.
This gave the nessecary clearance for the radiator shrouds when turning full lock on the wr 250
n=

Hope this helps someone
1
jimgoose
Posts
10
Joined
8/5/2017
Location
AU
5/28/2018 4:12am
Anyway thought i wouldnt hide anything on the subject.
I love these forks but i did get outdone/ asswhippin in some single trail on saturday by the guy that cut the single trail in.He did have to wait a fair bit as the many logs were wet and i dropped it more than a few times.
He was on a 2014 yz 450 geared low with a suspension job.2nd and 3rd gear for him most the way.
It was my first go on most of that particular single trail and he haunts that one TBH.
Hes a pretty good rider/racer in camparison to most people ive ridden with.
Will try to gopro that single track if i can remmember it all.
So a good racer can go real fast on a revalved n sprung pair of speed sensitive USD's
jimgoose
Posts
10
Joined
8/5/2017
Location
AU
9/28/2019 9:53pm
pete24 wrote:
i got piks of the blueberry i can prolly get some collars made i need the ID of the top and bottom clamp you are using...
i got piks of the blueberry i can prolly get some collars made i need the ID of the top and bottom clamp you are using, i also have five sets of 98 forks, two sets are revalved by RG3 ill take any legit offer for them


that bike is so rad! NICE job!
A work of art
jimgoose
Posts
10
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8/5/2017
Location
AU
9/28/2019 10:21pm
Digger29 wrote:
No there isn't any difference in them.
CR500Rider wrote:
Besides bushings, springs and a few seals you're right. I have a spare set of 97'/98' forks and was hoping there was some way to tell...
Besides bushings, springs and a few seals you're right. I have a spare set of 97'/98' forks and was hoping there was some way to tell without busting them apart.
quicken wrote:
It's very easy to id. a '96-'98 fork '96 had more lower overhang and a hexagon cap '97 had less (than '96)lower overhang and a hexagon...
It's very easy to id. a '96-'98 fork

'96 had more lower overhang and a hexagon cap

'97 had less (than '96)lower overhang and a hexagon cap

'98 had less(than '96) lower overhang and the more current slotted cap



would you have any 1998 lower legs in good internal condition that you would be willing to sell.?.heres my email .negative_noel@hotmail.com
FWYT
Posts
3305
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5/25/2014
Location
San Diego, CA US
9/29/2019 8:03am
Man, Jimgoose, thank you for all the info! I was just thinking about doing something like this on my
next project bike and this thread popped up. Thanks!!
oldman125
Posts
30
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4/1/2008
Location
Grand Junction, CO US
11/2/2019 8:46pm
Does anyone have a set of 98s for sale? A triple would be nice too.

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