Cam wear= garbage?

Danpadula
Edited Date/Time 7/18/2014 7:34am
Hey guys i have my two cams out pf my bike and the exhaust cam seems to have a very feignht scoring mark around the whole surface, you can only see it in the right light. Does this mean that i need a new cam, the other one has no lines and even the journals are completly clean. Any help is apreciated!
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harescrambled
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harescrambled 7/14/2014 11:23am
7/14/2014 11:23am
Danpadula wrote:
Hey guys i have my two cams out pf my bike and the exhaust cam seems to have a very feignht scoring mark around the whole...
Hey guys i have my two cams out pf my bike and the exhaust cam seems to have a very feignht scoring mark around the whole surface, you can only see it in the right light. Does this mean that i need a new cam, the other one has no lines and even the journals are completly clean. Any help is apreciated!
can you post some pics?
Danpadula 7/14/2014 11:42am
7/14/2014 11:42am
Danpadula wrote:
Hey guys i have my two cams out pf my bike and the exhaust cam seems to have a very feignht scoring mark around the whole...
Hey guys i have my two cams out pf my bike and the exhaust cam seems to have a very feignht scoring mark around the whole surface, you can only see it in the right light. Does this mean that i need a new cam, the other one has no lines and even the journals are completly clean. Any help is apreciated!
harescrambled wrote:
can you post some pics?
yes

Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 7/14/2014 11:48am
7/14/2014 11:48am
Your exhaust cam show signs of a lubrication issue. It also shows to have over heated at the journal. You need to find out why.
Clogged oil strainer screens in the cases or the frame, lack of oil, old oil or oil distribution issue. You did not say what brank or year bike. Normally when the cam shows wear so does the head.

Paw Paw
Danpadula 7/14/2014 12:07pm
7/14/2014 12:07pm
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Your exhaust cam show signs of a lubrication issue. It also shows to have over heated at the journal. You need to find out why. Clogged...
Your exhaust cam show signs of a lubrication issue. It also shows to have over heated at the journal. You need to find out why.
Clogged oil strainer screens in the cases or the frame, lack of oil, old oil or oil distribution issue. You did not say what brank or year bike. Normally when the cam shows wear so does the head.

Paw Paw
06 kx250f piston grenaded.

The Shop

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Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 7/14/2014 12:35pm
7/14/2014 12:35pm
Ok so you have had some oiling issues with the piston and now the cam. You need to find the problem or the engine will not last.

Paw Paw
Danpadula 7/14/2014 12:42pm
7/14/2014 12:42pm
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Ok so you have had some oiling issues with the piston and now the cam. You need to find the problem or the engine will not...
Ok so you have had some oiling issues with the piston and now the cam. You need to find the problem or the engine will not last.

Paw Paw
Would getting a new head fix that,
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 7/14/2014 2:04pm
7/14/2014 2:04pm
I am not sure....Did you split the case when the piston let go? If not you may still have pieces of the piston floating around in the engine oil system. Those pieces will also plug up the filter screens that are inside the engine cases. The only way to get to them is to split the cases. They can also be in the crank bearings and trans bearings .
So do you know why the piston let go?

Paw Paw
Danpadula 7/14/2014 3:20pm
7/14/2014 3:20pm
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
I am not sure....Did you split the case when the piston let go? If not you may still have pieces of the piston floating around in...
I am not sure....Did you split the case when the piston let go? If not you may still have pieces of the piston floating around in the engine oil system. Those pieces will also plug up the filter screens that are inside the engine cases. The only way to get to them is to split the cases. They can also be in the crank bearings and trans bearings .
So do you know why the piston let go?

Paw Paw
No clue, bought it like this, the crank had 0 hours, brandnew
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 7/14/2014 4:15pm
7/14/2014 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/14/2014 4:15pm
So if a new crank was installed, we can only hope they also did the other things needed.

Paw Paw
Danpadula 7/15/2014 6:22am
7/15/2014 6:22am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
So if a new crank was installed, we can only hope they also did the other things needed.

Paw Paw
im just going to get a new head.. Sad its destroied
DTHA70
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DTHA70 7/15/2014 7:51am
7/15/2014 7:51am
yeah you have an oiling issue. it needs to come all the way apart and put back together with every seal and bearing gone through thoroughly.
Danpadula 7/15/2014 8:23am
7/15/2014 8:23am
DTHA70 wrote:
yeah you have an oiling issue. it needs to come all the way apart and put back together with every seal and bearing gone through thoroughly.
ya i couldve told you that, but my question is if i got a new head would that solve my problem?
mxtech1
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mxtech1 7/15/2014 8:41am
7/15/2014 8:41am
DTHA70 wrote:
yeah you have an oiling issue. it needs to come all the way apart and put back together with every seal and bearing gone through thoroughly.
Danpadula wrote:
ya i couldve told you that, but my question is if i got a new head would that solve my problem?
How are we supposed to know if a new head is going to fix the oil problem based on the few lines of information you've given us?

DTHA70
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DTHA70 7/15/2014 9:03am
7/15/2014 9:03am
DTHA70 wrote:
yeah you have an oiling issue. it needs to come all the way apart and put back together with every seal and bearing gone through thoroughly.
Danpadula wrote:
ya i couldve told you that, but my question is if i got a new head would that solve my problem?
no, it wont solve it, thats why i said it has to come all the apart, you have an oil pump, oil seal, or oil screen causing a lack of pressure in your lubrication circuit somewhere. i would suspect the seal that holds pressure on the end of the crankshaft pilot or a clogged screen between the cases not allowing for enough scavenging.
Danpadula 7/15/2014 9:08am
7/15/2014 9:08am
DTHA70 wrote:
yeah you have an oiling issue. it needs to come all the way apart and put back together with every seal and bearing gone through thoroughly.
Danpadula wrote:
ya i couldve told you that, but my question is if i got a new head would that solve my problem?
mxtech1 wrote:
How are we supposed to know if a new head is going to fix the oil problem based on the few lines of information you've given...
How are we supposed to know if a new head is going to fix the oil problem based on the few lines of information you've given us?

Maybe if youve read the "few" lines ive given you you would understand i bought the bike like this.
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 7/15/2014 9:28am
7/15/2014 9:28am
Then, you should plan on doing a complete tear down to find the problem. It's kind of hard to find a problem long distance.

Paw Paw
Danpadula 7/15/2014 9:45am
7/15/2014 9:45am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Then, you should plan on doing a complete tear down to find the problem. It's kind of hard to find a problem long distance.

Paw Paw
Yes the girst thing i did was open the case metal pieces were all over the case
Danpadula 7/15/2014 9:47am
7/15/2014 9:47am
Besides the oiling issues do you think the cam is salvagable?

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harescrambled
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harescrambled 7/15/2014 11:02am
7/15/2014 11:02am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Then, you should plan on doing a complete tear down to find the problem. It's kind of hard to find a problem long distance.

Paw Paw
Danpadula wrote:
Yes the girst thing i did was open the case metal pieces were all over the case
How did the oil pickup strainer screens look? Mine grenaded once due to a clogged pickup screen...looked like a cat hacked up a hairball on it. Cost me a ton of coin, and the root cause was an inferior quality set of clutch plates. When they wore, the friction material came off in fibers, not small particles like cork will, and clogged the screen. It was an expensive lesson. The clutch kit that I'm referring to is a Tusk kit.
project racer 7/15/2014 3:02pm
7/15/2014 3:02pm
A new, "0" hour crank, installed in cases full of metallic debris ? The new head should make it run better, for a few seconds.

If the crank was in the engine when the metal shower began, it is probably littered with debris also.

Hope the wallet still has some padding in it.
Danpadula 7/15/2014 3:13pm
7/15/2014 3:13pm
project racer wrote:
A new, "0" hour crank, installed in cases full of metallic debris ? The new head should make it run better, for a few seconds. If...
A new, "0" hour crank, installed in cases full of metallic debris ? The new head should make it run better, for a few seconds.

If the crank was in the engine when the metal shower began, it is probably littered with debris also.

Hope the wallet still has some padding in it.
No. Crank went in then the motor blew, thats what the previous owner told me
harescrambled
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harescrambled 7/16/2014 1:28am
7/16/2014 1:28am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2014 1:29am
The cam looks salvageable to me. As long as you the journals aren't scored you should be fine. As for the rest of it...do a complete teardown, make sure every bearing in the engine is uncontaminated, and if the rod big end bearing isn't perfectly smooth when you move it, I'd put a rod in it or even buy a new crank. Ask the previous owner for two things: what kind of clutch was in it, and for a receipt for the "0 hr crank" if he doesn't know what kind of clutch is in it, or it's a no name or house brand clutch, replace it. If there is no receipt for the crank, replace that too. Regarding the piston...did it shatter, seize or break the skirt? I'm only asking these questions because I race a '04 RMZ 250 in GNCC and local harescrambles. I know what causes them to fail. And it's basically the same motor
Danpadula 7/16/2014 4:43am
7/16/2014 4:43am
harescrambled wrote:
The cam looks salvageable to me. As long as you the journals aren't scored you should be fine. As for the rest of it...do a complete...
The cam looks salvageable to me. As long as you the journals aren't scored you should be fine. As for the rest of it...do a complete teardown, make sure every bearing in the engine is uncontaminated, and if the rod big end bearing isn't perfectly smooth when you move it, I'd put a rod in it or even buy a new crank. Ask the previous owner for two things: what kind of clutch was in it, and for a receipt for the "0 hr crank" if he doesn't know what kind of clutch is in it, or it's a no name or house brand clutch, replace it. If there is no receipt for the crank, replace that too. Regarding the piston...did it shatter, seize or break the skirt? I'm only asking these questions because I race a '04 RMZ 250 in GNCC and local harescrambles. I know what causes them to fail. And it's basically the same motor
Piston did all of the above!! The jug is in the trash and this is a picture of the head.

harescrambled
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harescrambled 7/16/2014 11:39am
7/16/2014 11:39am
I was a bit luckier when mine blew up...it broke the skirt, and broke off a piece of the piston crown. It lodged in an exhause valve, but luckily it happened at low RPM and all I lost was the piston and jug
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 7/16/2014 12:15pm
7/16/2014 12:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2014 12:16pm
THat head looks fixable, but it will cost. If I had to guess, it will cost around $700 to fix. Best to find a good used one or if money is no object, purchase a new one.
Danpadula 7/16/2014 12:20pm
7/16/2014 12:20pm
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
THat head looks fixable, but it will cost. If I had to guess, it will cost around $700 to fix. Best to find a good used...
THat head looks fixable, but it will cost. If I had to guess, it will cost around $700 to fix. Best to find a good used one or if money is no object, purchase a new one.
Where would i send it to fix it and its wortg it to buy a brandnew for 600
project racer 7/16/2014 2:57pm
7/16/2014 2:57pm
Bare head - $603.00
Head complete w/valves , seals, springs, retainers - $ 1051.37
Crank assembly - $380.00
Cylinder - $259.00

The bike is worth about $1700- $1800 in good, running condition.

The three main components needed for a proper rebuild total right at $1700, without all of the other components you would need to do it right.

They were not the most reliable bike, even when new. If you are not into it too deep money wise already, let it go.
Danpadula 7/16/2014 5:04pm
7/16/2014 5:04pm
project racer wrote:
Bare head - $603.00 Head complete w/valves , seals, springs, retainers - $ 1051.37 Crank assembly - $380.00 Cylinder - $259.00 The bike is worth about...
Bare head - $603.00
Head complete w/valves , seals, springs, retainers - $ 1051.37
Crank assembly - $380.00
Cylinder - $259.00

The bike is worth about $1700- $1800 in good, running condition.

The three main components needed for a proper rebuild total right at $1700, without all of the other components you would need to do it right.

They were not the most reliable bike, even when new. If you are not into it too deep money wise already, let it go.
What if i re use the cams and crank but make sure all bearings are in check and clean
casper
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casper 7/16/2014 8:13pm
7/16/2014 8:13pm
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
THat head looks fixable, but it will cost. If I had to guess, it will cost around $700 to fix. Best to find a good used...
THat head looks fixable, but it will cost. If I had to guess, it will cost around $700 to fix. Best to find a good used one or if money is no object, purchase a new one.
Danpadula wrote:
Where would i send it to fix it and its wortg it to buy a brandnew for 600
Check out Fast Heads. I had my head done there and the guy was great with explaining everything over the phone and when I got my head back, it had all his measurements on it and instructions for me.
harescrambled
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harescrambled 7/17/2014 12:24am
7/17/2014 12:24am
Find out how much it would cost to recondition the head. Then check out this link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-OEM-2006-06-KX250F-KXF-250-Cylinder-Head-Va…

I bought a kit from them before...it's exactly as advertised. What they list is what you get. And if you have any issues at all with the parts they send you, call them and it'll get resolved pronto. If you buy from them, there's a make offer link on their listing. Offer them $1200 for the kit. I bet they bite.

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