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CRF250 2010 Starting problems [HELP PLEASE]

taylorz94

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Posts: 5

Joined: 3/15/2012

Location: GBR

3/15/2012 2:20 AM

Hi, I'm new to this forum so I don't know weather this is the right place to post this but I need some help diagnosing a starting problem on my bike (CRF 250R 2010)

It seems as if the bike is not getting any fuel but the fuel pump is working, the electrics are fine and my local honda dealer said there has not been any problems with the fuel injection systems at all or not that he's dealt with so far! So I'm unsure what it might be and don't really want to put it in to a shop to get ripped off when I could fix the bike myself if I knew what the problem might be

Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks guys

mxtech1

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Posts: 532

Joined: 7/21/2011

Location: Galesburg, IL USA

3/15/2012 4:59 AM

need more information

taylorz94

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Posts: 5

Joined: 3/15/2012

Location: GBR

3/16/2012 6:23 AM

mxtech1 wrote: need more information

What information would you say is needed to get an idea of what could be wrong??

I have stripped the bike down and come to a decision of my own that it may either be that the injector in the carb is blocked or the electrics going to the injector are not working properly.

mxtech1

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Posts: 532

Joined: 7/21/2011

Location: Galesburg, IL USA

3/16/2012 6:49 AM

Does it have spark?
How strong is the fuel pump working?
Is the injector spraying clean?
What is your valve clearance?

It's pretty hard to diagnose an electrical problem over the internet, let alone on vague information. My best advice is to get your electrical meter and service manual out and use the troubleshooting section to test everthing. It's a long, tedious process but this is why shops charge alot of money for problems like this.

taylorz94

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Posts: 5

Joined: 3/15/2012

Location: GBR

3/16/2012 7:01 AM

mxtech1 wrote: Does it have spark?
How strong is the fuel pump working?
Is the injector spraying clean?
What is your valve clearance?

It's pretty hard to diagnose an electrical problem over the internet, let alone on vague information. My best advice is to get your electrical meter and service manual out and use the troubleshooting section to test everthing. It's a long, tedious process but this is why shops charge alot of money for problems like this.

Yes the spark plug was checked straight away and swapped over for a new spare and both worked fine
The injector still needs to be checked im planning on doing that tonight once im home from work as Ive only stripped it down at the moment
The valve clearance was checked by a friend of mine who builds race engines and frames for race bikes and side cars in the isle of man TT and world series superbikes using my manual so I trust that everything is all ok there

I was just wondering if anyone had stumbled across this problem before and could offer me some advice to what their problem was

RACESTHILAIRE

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Location: Rochester, NH USA

3/16/2012 7:36 AM

You can check the injector by looking through the throttle body with the throttle open while someone kicks the bike to see if it is spraying. You just have to remove the subframe, take the ECU out of the subframe obviously and plug it back in to the harness.

Make sure you don't try putting a 12v power source to the injector to test it if you dont check by kicking the bike. It operates with 5v and you will ruin the injector if you put too much voltage too it.

Did you test compression? Did you do a leak test? 4 strokes need good compression, fuel, air, and timing to run. Check your major things first and work down from those.

When did this issue start? How did the bike act when it first happened? Were you already riding or was it at the beginning of a ride day?

Answering some of those questions may help us help you get your bike starting!

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taylorz94

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Location: GBR

3/16/2012 8:08 AM

RACESTHILAIRE wrote: You can check the injector by looking through the throttle body with the throttle open while someone kicks the bike to see if it is spraying. You just have to remove the subframe, take the ECU out of the subframe obviously and plug it back in to the harness.

Make sure you don't try putting a 12v power source to the injector to test it if you dont check by kicking the bike. It operates with 5v and you will ruin the injector if you put too much voltage too it.

Did you test compression? Did you do a leak test? 4 strokes need good compression, fuel, air, and timing to run. Check your major things first and work down from those.

When did this issue start? How did the bike act when it first happened? Were you already riding or was it at the beginning of a ride day?

Answering some of those questions may help us help you get your bike starting!

Thanks for all these tips! I have already took the injector out so I'm half way there and thankyou for letting me know how to test if the injector is blocked or not thats a big help!

The bike has had a new piston ring and compression test with new valves all at once and this is the first time trying to start it since then.

The problem that first occurred was the bike was slowly getting harder and harder to start and when it was running it got really hot, a shop informed me to check the valves after checking I found out they had stretched.

I havent ran it until its been rebuilt but before the new valves and piston ring it was difficult to start and once it was hot and started it was even harder to start up after it was cut off.

mxtech1

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Location: Galesburg, IL USA

3/16/2012 8:54 AM

It sounds more like a valve train and/or timing issue

RACESTHILAIRE

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Location: Rochester, NH USA

3/16/2012 2:35 PM

I agree with MXtech1, check your cam timing first. If that is correct, you need a reputable shop to inspect your cylinder head and valves. If you have trouble finding someone in your area email me at sthilairemx@metrocast.net and I will do my best to help you.

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4stroke4DWIN

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Location: Mesa, AZ USA

3/16/2012 6:30 PM

Sounds like a timing issue, you may have got it a tooth or two off on the cam sprocket.

On the cam sprocket you have an arrow that should line up with the flat surface of the head, also you have 2 marks on the stator side visible thru the timing plug, and another mark on the clutch side visible thru another inspection plug. The 2 on the stator side are a fire mark and a timing mark the mark on the right of the 2 needs to be lined up with the mark on the case. This all needs to be done on the COMPRESSION stroke not the exhaust stroke.

I would pull the plug and use an allen head tho turn the motor over thru the inspection hole on the clutch side, check to make sure all marks line up. The cam lobes shouldn't be touching the buckets and that will let you know your on the compression stroke at top dead center. If you not sure about TDC get a screwdriver and put tape on the end (protect piston from scratching) and put it down the spark plug hole, watch for it to reach it's highest point and that should be TDC. DO NOT KICK IT OVER WITH THAT SCREW DRIVER DOWN THE HOLE, turn it over by hand. Hope this helps.

You're trying to use logic in your post and 4stroke doesn't appreciate logic! (FACT)




Allracing

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Location: Bountiful, UT USA

3/16/2012 10:41 PM

You need three things for a bike to run 1. Air, 2. Spark, 3. Fuel. I agree it sounds like a timing issue to me.

I hate to admit this, but make sure there isn't a rag in the air box blocking air getting to the motor.

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DavidLock

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Joined: 9/24/2013

Location: CAN

9/24/2013 11:46 AM

My 2011 250R is still in the shop (been over 3 months now), had the same problem: hard starting, would bump-start fine but impossible to kick. Rebuilt the motor, still wouldn't start. Problem now traced to the fuel injection electrical circuit (fuel pump was only putting out 12 psi fuel pressure), issue with ground fault in the voltage regulator/capacitor. Bike starts fine with 12V battery connected to fuel pump that provides 48 psi as per spec. Will keep you posted...

xnationalwrench

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Location: Champaign, IL USA

9/25/2013 6:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/25/2013 3:47 PM

You also might double check the fuel pump filter to se if there is a blockage or if is dirty.

gyd58

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Posts: 73

Joined: 9/7/2011

Location: AL, USA

9/26/2013 11:23 AM

The 2010 had issues with the fuel filters and the fuel pump. Both have been updated by Honda. If yours has not been updated it could be one of your issues. We were replacing fuel filters constantly on the 2010 until we upgraded to the new pump and filter.

DavidLock

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Joined: 9/24/2013

Location: CAN

9/26/2013 12:41 PM

Thanks for the help guys. Right now the injector & fuel filter is being replaced.

According to Honda they have had issues with the fuel injectors, which are fickle and small amounts of dirt & contaminiation prevent fuel pressure buildup during starting. It gets so bad that the fuel pressure bleeds off in less than 10 min, and after successive attempts kicking the unburnt fuel not only floods the engine, but can wash down the cylinder and wash the oil out of the left crank bearing causing it to fail on startup (especially because everyone rev the shit out of their bike to "clean it out"!).

Recommendation from large aftermarket parts supplier FOR ALL FUEL INJECTED HONDA DIRT BIKES is to install an in-tank micro cloth mesh screen on the fuel tank filling cap to prevent dirt entering tank from fuel filling.

Should have installed the tank screen from new, & listened to my "know-it-all" buddy!

Cheers,

David
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