Posts
78
Joined
2/21/2013
Location
Hillsborough, NJ
US
Edited Date/Time
8/14/2014 8:00pm
Guys,
New to the 4 strokes. have a 13 CRF250R. Ran bike, changed oils. Rode bike 1 lap around yard, it stalled. Cannot start. Thought I flooded it. Put on stand over night, it started and rode down driveway. Stalled and now won't start. Is ther easy way to test for spark without removing tank? How to test for fuel? ANyone have part number for these battery harnesses they mention?
Thanks
New to the 4 strokes. have a 13 CRF250R. Ran bike, changed oils. Rode bike 1 lap around yard, it stalled. Cannot start. Thought I flooded it. Put on stand over night, it started and rode down driveway. Stalled and now won't start. Is ther easy way to test for spark without removing tank? How to test for fuel? ANyone have part number for these battery harnesses they mention?
Thanks
To test for fuel, pretty easy - pull subframe and intake book. Kick bike with kill switch pushed down so it won't start, and look for the fuel squirt.
Thanks. Bought bike used. Total 43 hours. Top end done at 37 hours. Valves done at 37 hours. Running AV gas 50/50 premium. Gas all fresh. It doesn't even pop. I rode it down driveway and it just cut-off. My son just found radiator braces pushing against wires. I will ohm them out shortly. The old spark plug against clinder good enough for spark test?
Honestly, I'd go right into checking the valves. CRF's are usually easy starters until the valves zero out. What shims are in right now? 50 hours is lot usually enough to get them to move, but you never can be sure 'till you check them.
How old is the fuel filter?
The Shop
Paw Paw
Thanks, Looked for pinched wires didn't see any but plan to ohm check as much as possible. Kill switch is working properly as I did ohm it out and test with a meter. What is the best way to check the coil? Manual always wants the special tools.
RE: The coil....your service manual will show the correct ohms readings on the primary and secondary side of the coil, but in your case you may have a coil pack.
The best way to check the coil pack is to try one from a good running bike. It should just unplug and plug in for the test.
IF you don't have a coil pack do the ohms test on the coil.
Paw Paw
You are going to need to pull the pump.
http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-parts/HONDA/2013/CRF250R/FUEL-TANK
With that being said, I still have concerns about the kill switch.
Paw Paw
Okay, I have the tank off and was going through the manual ignition checks. I do not get peak voltage off the primary when I test it with a meter. best I get is 6V. I checked the CKP sensor voltage and get 1 +. If I were to put 12v from a battery to the pump should I hear it run? Or how do you recommend seeing if the pump is running? How do you want me to eliminate the kill switch?
For my own sanity I will remove the coil and clean all connections.
THANK YOU
I think cleaning the coil mounts is a good start.
So, what were the ohms readings on the coil, when you tested it?
Also read through this post from a couple of years back as it may help.
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Race-Shop,42/CRF250-2010-Starting-problem…
You may have to copy and paste to find it.
It does show that 12 volts goes to the pump and that there may be a bad rectifier.
Paw Paw
Coil:
PRI 3ohms
Secondary 19K+
I tried to read peak voltage at the primary when kicking and I am NOT getting the 100 +.
Also does the fuel pump need to be connected to get spark?
I will read these articles, gonna take a break and back at it.
Thanks Again,
If the primary side reads too low the coil is bad.
If the secondary side reading is too high, then you may have dirty coil mounts or a dirty plug cap or a bad and dirty connection on the coil wire to the plug cap.
Paw Paw
Manual only lists the ohms for the primary side. (2.6 -3.2). I will check all of the connections and individually ohm the wire and cap. ( 3 parts are sold seperately so should come apart).
Rich
Paw Paw
Will try that this morning. DO you know if I can try an ECM from a 2012 model? They are different part numbers. Just want to see if it is the issue.
Rich
Paw Paw
Pit Row
Okay. I have been over it multiple times. I am starting to think the stator is bad even though it ohms are okay.
I am NOT getting my peak voltage at the primary of the coil. My DVM has a peak setting. I then wen tdirectly off the stator leads and the most I can get there is 20 VAC. I cannot find any reading for the output voltage of a stator, would you happen to know? I do get solid 14.3 dc volts at the primary. The manual then says to kick the motor and should get 100V. I get less than 10V. AT this point I am thinking stator or ECM.
Thoughts?
Rich
I have seen metal shavings stuck to the flywheel or trigger coil cause issues with spark.
If those are ok, then it may be time for a stator.
Paw Paw
I just spent 2 hours checking the entire wire harness for short to ground and continuity as it should be. All checks good.
I don't like the low voltage at the stator BUT I need to find out for sure.
Which is the trigger coil?
The wiring diagram has the stator wires going directly to the regulator. I am thinking right that it is the CKP signals that are the triggers? The CKPs go directly to the ECM. So ECM problem?
Rich
Paw Paw
I am using a dvm. It has the min/max feature. Hoping to try it on a working bike tomorrow to confirm the meter is getting it.
Following the manual throws me for a loop. It has you testing for 100V on the primary when you kick the bike. What generates the 100V? The stator feeds directly to the regulator. At that point it will all be 14.3 volts or so. The only other connection to the coil is from the ECM. Is it the ECM that triggers the coil? Is that where the 100v spike comes from? Funny that the owners manual lists the ECM 3rd in order for "no spark" cause after fouled plug and faulty plug.
Thank You,
Rich
If the coil & stator checked out ok, then I would be checking the rectifier and condenser prior to the ECU/ECM.
Paw Paw
The reason I ask is that I've seen digital meters that don't/can't sample/respond quick enough to capture the true peak voltage. The Honda manuals I've had show a PV adapter to capture PV on a digital but I suspect there are digitals with the feature built in.
The fellow I lean on for electrical issues (because, thankfully, in all my years of messing with these things I've only had a few electrical issues and they were all minor and easy, so I don't have the expertise he does due to lack of experience) uses an analog PV meter so he can see the response (he's been at the same dealership for 38 years, so he's not a snot-nosed hack).
I'll let Paw delve deeper with you but the job of the coil is to boost the voltage for ignition.
The ECM (used to be we called it a CD - capacitive discharge - ignition) should internally control the timing of the discharge.
If the manual is like most Honda manuals I've had, there isn't a dynamic test for the CDI/ECU but rather a process of elimination - if everything else is good then it must be the CDI/ECU is the logic I've seen in them.
I want to thank you both for your help and truly appreciate the suggestions. Patience is being tried.
Later today I will test coil (still thinking this by the K.I.S.S. theory) on another 250. I will also test the meter for catching the 100v since it is a working bike. Unforunately beyond the coil the other parts are different. 2010 vs 2013.
I agree with everything you guys have mentioned it just doesn't follow the script with my wiring diagram.
Stator leads go directly to the regulator. The leads from the regulator goes to the "shared" hot to the ECU, condenser, coil, fuel pump and MIL. If the condenser were to build up more than 13 or so volts,then if it were to release it on that shared line I would think it would fry the fuel pump and blow the MIL.
I thought that the primary coil induced the higher voltage into the secondary (being wound tighter and with more wndings). The collapsing of the primary and then coerresponding collapse of the secondary causes the transfer of voltage to the plug. Am I being too old school here?
THANK YOU AGAIN,
Rich
You are basicly correct on the coil, but that is also why I am concerned about the ohms readings specs on the primary side.
You see, if those resistance reading are too low the coil can't build up a strong enough charge to fire the plug. In most coils the primary resistance in at least 10 ohms and a lot are 16 ohms . If the reading is too low the coil is said to be breaking down, but in all fairness that break down normally happens mostly at high RPMs unless the readings are very low. To me, the spec's for your coil are too low, in my opnion, but as you said that is right from the book. I wonder if maybe they left a decimal point out.
Paw Paw
Unfortunately I am at a stop until I can get onto a working bike. Waiting now for access to a 2010.mpatiently I might add. I will let you know, soon I hope.
Rich
Coil is good. Gets spark on the 2010. Back at it in the am.
Rich
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