03 RM 125 piston to high?

pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
Hi everyone! I just picked up a rm125 from a friend of mine. The bottom end was bad, but he gave me a build motor from the owner that he got the bike off.

I started to assemble the motor, it only need the wiring put in, the covers, and the head assembled. The motor has a big bore kit and thats about all that i know. So i put the head on with the bored piston and everything looks fine. Go to put the cap on and the piston is hitting it.

Is it possible the engine is a stroker? If so how do i make the cap fit? Bigger base gasket? Bigger head gasket? Or machine the head down?

Thanks



|
DTHA70
Posts
336
Joined
9/25/2008
Location
Surprise, AZ US
8/16/2016 10:59am
is the ring groove sitting above the deck?
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/16/2016 11:30am
DTHA70 wrote:
is the ring groove sitting above the deck?
Its not, no. The picture does appear that way though.

RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/16/2016 12:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2016 12:14pm
Rotate the crank to BDC to see if it uncovers the entire transfer and exhaust ports. If it appears too high, about the same amount it sticks out above the cylinder, you probably don't have a stroker crank.

Chances are the rod is 2mm longer, as in 2004-06 RM125s, (and not a stroker). The rod length should be 108mm and the 2004 RM125 went to 110mm. I learned this when I rebuilt a 2003 RM125 a while back. I had the same issue and replaced the crank with the correct one.

You have a few options:

Call Wiseco or Athena to ask if any other piston has the pin hole 2mm higher (maybe a YZ125 piston for example???)

Use a shim under the cylinder and extend the powervalve rod. Cometic Gasket will make you a shim for cheap.

Or, use a set of 2004 cases. The crankshaft position is 2mm lower in the cases.

Good luck! Let us know what happens.

-Ryan
RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/16/2016 12:15pm
To add to my above comment... Can you post a picture at BDC? Does it uncover the ports in that position?

The Shop

pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/16/2016 12:41pm
I can get you a picture later today or tomorrow. I did check that it it completely uncovers the exhaust ports by like maybe a 1/16th. The intake side however is not completely uncovered
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/16/2016 12:44pm
The other problem i have is that i dont even know what year this engine is. The bike itself is a 2003, the engine thats blown up that was in the bike was a 01. I assume the original owner blew up the original engine, put the 01 engine in and then had the original 03 engine built (the one im working with now)
RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/16/2016 1:24pm
Ok, I have a feeling he sold the engine/project because he realized the piston was too high, as in your case- who knows.

When you get time, maybe you can find numbers on the rod to see if you can reference it.

And if it's a Wiseco crankshaft, you will need to replace it anyway. They last 2 rides.
DTHA70
Posts
336
Joined
9/25/2008
Location
Surprise, AZ US
8/16/2016 2:20pm
Ok, I have a feeling he sold the engine/project because he realized the piston was too high, as in your case- who knows. When you get...
Ok, I have a feeling he sold the engine/project because he realized the piston was too high, as in your case- who knows.

When you get time, maybe you can find numbers on the rod to see if you can reference it.

And if it's a Wiseco crankshaft, you will need to replace it anyway. They last 2 rides.
this^^ keep a wiseco crank and/or rod FAR AWAY FROM YOUR BIKE. literally ticking time bombs.
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/16/2016 7:03pm
Thanks for the heads up! I will take a closer look tomorrow and try to figure out whats happening
Cancerman
Posts
756
Joined
7/16/2011
Location
In Hell, FL US
8/16/2016 11:03pm
Ok, I have a feeling he sold the engine/project because he realized the piston was too high, as in your case- who knows. When you get...
Ok, I have a feeling he sold the engine/project because he realized the piston was too high, as in your case- who knows.

When you get time, maybe you can find numbers on the rod to see if you can reference it.

And if it's a Wiseco crankshaft, you will need to replace it anyway. They last 2 rides.
I know you guys bash the wiseco crank, but mine is going on 3 years now, now problems. Screams like a demon!
Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
8/17/2016 12:24am
You can measure the stroke with the depth Guage on digital calipers.

Something is way off. The piston should be 0.5mm lower than the top of the cylinder at tdc.

You might have a wrong piston, the cylinder base may have been machined off (2-3mm too much) or it might have the wrong rod.

Years ago, people running strokers used a 2mm shorter rod from an older model.

Sorry, but it's a mess and will need some measurements and new parts to put right


RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/17/2016 6:58am
Cancerman wrote:
I know you guys bash the wiseco crank, but mine is going on 3 years now, now problems. Screams like a demon!
You got lucky. I've heard of some Wiseco cranks working for some people. I just won't risk it myself. I went through two within a couple hours of riding. No, I didn't check for trueness (if that's a word). But, it surely did lock up after only a few heat cycles.
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/17/2016 7:44am
I think i will just go ahead and rebuild the 01 engine and leave this 03 'frankenstein' on the back burner until i can figure out whats going on with it lol. any insight on what is the better way to go instead of wiseco? Hot rods, maybe? Ive actually had several bikes (mostly 2 strokes) and this will be the first bottom end ive ever rebuilt so im new to this.
RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/17/2016 8:01am
I use hotrods crankshafts. Make sure you get the correct year! LOL. Hotrods offers the main bearing and seal kit too. (all on Ebay for the most part)

Tusk Racing makes an affordable case splitter tool and a crank puller/installer tool. Those would help immensely. pitposse.com or ebay.com

Moose Racing makes complete gasket and seal kits for the entire engine- about $70.

I think you need Yamabond for the cases and maybe some loctite and an air impact wrench. (hopefully you have an air compressor)

And of course your regular hand tools- maybe an impact screw driver to remove the stator plate. harborfreight.com

Good luck!
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/17/2016 9:51am
The piston comes up past the cylinder head by exactly 1.5 mm so i assume since it should actually be under the top by .5mm the rod is indeed 2mm to long. now, it is a hot rods rod so if i chose to keep going with this, hypothetically this engine would work if i added a 2mm base gasket, and lengthened the power valve rod by 2mm? I have 2 cometic gaskets available and could cut out a 1/16th peice of aluminum to sandwich inbetween to make up the 2mm.

Am i getting to carried away or might this work? Id hate to waste my time any longer on it but i do still have the 01 engine for backup if this would go completely wrong lol
Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
8/17/2016 9:57am
Running the spacer should work, but it's just another can of worms. You then have to modulate head stays etc etc.

I would measure cylinder height before assuming the rodds is wrong
RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/17/2016 10:02am
Sounds like a plan. I'm not sure what thickness your gaskets are but you want to take into account those (plus the spacer) will need to equal 2mm, or .078 inch. It sounds like you're on the right track- then lengthen the powervalve rod somehow (cut and weld?), as you mentioned.

I don't think we're missing anything. Maybe someone else can chime in.

If the .0625" shim you have is a pain to cut, keep in mind, Cometic makes the shim for like $25. And I think you would have it within like 3-4 days.

-Ryan
RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/17/2016 10:07am
Bruce372 wrote:
Running the spacer should work, but it's just another can of worms. You then have to modulate head stays etc etc. I would measure cylinder height...
Running the spacer should work, but it's just another can of worms. You then have to modulate head stays etc etc.

I would measure cylinder height before assuming the rodds is wrong
Good idea to measure the overall height of the cylinder- wouldn't hurt. You might need to find someone to measure theirs to compare, of course.

I don't think the head stays would be too much trouble. Might need to file a couple holes. I think lengthening the powervalve rod will be the trickiest part.
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/17/2016 10:23am
Maybe buy a peice of rod and bend it myself adding the right amount would be easiest. I did compare the head to the 01 head and they are the same size. 'Head stays' refering to the pins?
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/17/2016 10:38am
Also my power valve rod appears to be about to break to begin with, as you can see in this picture. anyone know where to get a new one just to use at least for reference. Mine looks bent up a bit and im not sure if thats how its supposed to be

RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
8/17/2016 10:45am
The head stays are the two triangular shaped aluminum brackets with three holes. They attach the head to the frame for structural support.

The rod is probably close enough to copy. The rod needs to plug in the powervalve arm when in the closed position.. you will need to determine which direction is closed. I don't remember. I suggest using heat to bend the new rod.
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/18/2016 11:42am
Now since i didnt have any parts in rebuilding this bottom end i just hope it runs lol
Bruce372
Posts
6341
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
8/18/2016 12:08pm
Did you measure the stroke? If it's been stroked, the piston skirt may be higher than the exhaust port at tdc
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
8/19/2016 10:17am Edited Date/Time 8/19/2016 10:18am
It runs. Doesnt want to idle, but it runs thanks a ton to everyone who helped out!
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
9/5/2016 2:41pm
Anyone have any idea what jetting i should use? Right now i have a 440 main with a 30 pilot and the main pin is on the 3rd clip down from the top. The bike has a great idle and top end feels strong but the low/mid doesnt feel the best. Again the bike is bored to 139. My mixture is 40:1 with 93 octane. Plug is a 8. timing is factory setting.
RyanLester761
Posts
1133
Joined
2/7/2007
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA US
9/5/2016 2:52pm
You will lose a tad bit of primary compression when adding a plate under the cylinder- essentially increasing the crankcase volume. Therefore, it could affect the low end power.

You should adjust the fuel screw in and out while blipping the throttle off idle. Find the most responsive. If you go out more than 3 turns, you can go to a leaner pilot. If you go in more than one turn, you need a richer pilot. (Turning in the fuel screw in enrichens the mixer)
pghs2kid
Posts
15
Joined
8/16/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA US
9/6/2016 10:21am
Thanks for the reply. I will try that with the jets and see if it helps at all.

Post a reply to: 03 RM 125 piston to high?

The Latest