WTB Aluminum Swingarm 79 Honda CR250

Old&New
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10/20/2016 4:15pm
Hey gang - I am in search of an aluminum swingarm for my 1979 Honda CR250. I had one on order and paid in full from KLP but he shut down due to fire. He promptly refunded they money. Super bummed and was really looking forward to getting it.
I'm looking for a FOX or Mugen style. Replica or original. I have searched around the net but can't find anything. Really appreciate the help.
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mxracer666
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10/20/2016 4:42pm
I have a KLP Mugen-rep;ica swingarm for the 78-80 series CR250. I had karl build it, and after waiting 7 months plus, I got it! Unfortunately, in the meantime, I suffered a badly broken wrist and cannot return to vintage racing. Its been sitting in my garage, unused for 5 years. P-M me if you would like pics
Old&New
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10/20/2016 7:17pm
mxracer666 wrote:
I have a KLP Mugen-rep;ica swingarm for the 78-80 series CR250. I had karl build it, and after waiting 7 months plus, I got it! Unfortunately...
I have a KLP Mugen-rep;ica swingarm for the 78-80 series CR250. I had karl build it, and after waiting 7 months plus, I got it! Unfortunately, in the meantime, I suffered a badly broken wrist and cannot return to vintage racing. Its been sitting in my garage, unused for 5 years. P-M me if you would like pics
PM sent - Thanks!
mxracer666
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10/20/2016 7:50pm
Old&New--P-M me your phone number. I'll text you the pics
Old&New
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10/20/2016 8:33pm
mxracer666 wrote:
Old&New--P-M me your phone number. I'll text you the pics
Cell # sent

The Shop

10/21/2016 5:34am Edited Date/Time 10/21/2016 5:34am
Just putting this out,

We're working on having our own swing-arms for the '78-'80 CR250 ready for next year. They won't be a "replica", but our own design, built for the serious racer.
We're hoping to have a retail price of around £650. If anyone's interested drop us an E-mai!l The more interest we have the sooner production will start!!

Stevie
newmann
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10/21/2016 5:56am
Thanks Stevie! Betting they won't have to be sent back numerous times either for fitment, wheel centering, shock positioning, twists, cracks, or broken welds either! After everything that had to be done to my 74 CR250 arm here recently, I have to admit I am a little nervous about racing on it. You can bet your ass I will be checking it over in detail every ride out. Hopefully you will make one similar in dimensions that will work with the $900.00 Race Tech shocks I recently purchased. Sign me up!

Signed,
nervous in Texas
Old&New
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10/21/2016 2:19pm
mxracer666 wrote:
Old&New--P-M me your phone number. I'll text you the pics
Old&New wrote:
Cell # sent
PM you my Cell number and email address. Did you get it?
10/23/2016 12:47pm
newmann wrote:
Thanks Stevie! Betting they won't have to be sent back numerous times either for fitment, wheel centering, shock positioning, twists, cracks, or broken welds either! After...
Thanks Stevie! Betting they won't have to be sent back numerous times either for fitment, wheel centering, shock positioning, twists, cracks, or broken welds either! After everything that had to be done to my 74 CR250 arm here recently, I have to admit I am a little nervous about racing on it. You can bet your ass I will be checking it over in detail every ride out. Hopefully you will make one similar in dimensions that will work with the $900.00 Race Tech shocks I recently purchased. Sign me up!

Signed,
nervous in Texas
Thats what we're aiming at Newmann! Perfect fitment, first time!

I should, hopefully, have some CAD drawings to show in a few weeks.

Stevie
Oldnslo
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10/24/2016 2:34am Edited Date/Time 10/24/2016 2:35am
Count me in as well Stevie...I too suffered from the same issues described by Newman. My arm sits in my shop collecting dust....way too scared to actually run it in race onditions...a very costly peice of garage art is what it amounted too...
FreshTopEnd
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10/25/2016 12:23pm
Stevie, if you did a Fox repop, I would be in. Karl's was dimensionally off as replica.

KLP foreground, Fox middle, VMX rear (this one is shaped right, but significantly more massive than the Fox extrusion).


The HollyEquip guys have regularly been selling Mugen 250 replicas on EBay; don't know where they source them.
11/2/2016 10:40pm
Stevie, if you did a Fox repop, I would be in. Karl's was dimensionally off as replica. KLP foreground, Fox middle, VMX rear (this one is...
Stevie, if you did a Fox repop, I would be in. Karl's was dimensionally off as replica.

KLP foreground, Fox middle, VMX rear (this one is shaped right, but significantly more massive than the Fox extrusion).


The HollyEquip guys have regularly been selling Mugen 250 replicas on EBay; don't know where they source them.
So FTE are you warning me that my Fox replica swingarm mat be a crapshoot when I go to install it in the next couple of weeks? What should I look out for? I notice that my axle adjusters are made the opposite of yours and go through the back.



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11/3/2016 1:17pm
It actually was a nice arm (TyDog and I got ours as a package and had different axle adjusters added to avoid the spear sticking out the back on the original).

I didn't have any big issues with fitment. In the end, I wanted it to be more identical to the original (same reason I ended up ditching the VMX arm). My original FF swingarm had a mostly cosmetic imperfection I was looking to swap out for my build, but I am sticking with it. Others here have had issues with longevity on KLP arms, can't speak to that. It was simply my personal wish to have it look as much like the original as possible; VMX had the shape but the spars are big and it was heavy; spars on KLP were right, but shape not. (From recall, VMX arm came in at about 11 pounds, Fox arm at 8, KLP at a bit over 6)
chuckdavies
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11/4/2016 5:58am
FTE, out of interest, what was wrong with the shape of the KLP swingarm? I've got a new KLP one here too for a Moto-X FOX CR250 we're building, and comparing it to pics of the original, it seems pretty close! Obviously i've heard all the horror stories about fitment etc but so far seems to have mounted up pretty spot on (don't want to speak too soon though!)

I'm just thinking, unless you were comparing the shape to your other different year/shape original FF swingarm?
newmann
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11/4/2016 11:58am
Chuck, the KLP Fox Replica arm is almost straight and does not have nearly the bend/angle in the arm that the original Fox arm has. The Fox arm for the 78-79 models moved the lower shock position forward quite a bit compared to stock yet if not mistaken shared basically the original factory shock length. The extreme banana shape compensated for the shock length without raising the rear of the bike. People more familiar with the 78-79 could verify this. You will most likely have to mock the bike up with the swing arm and calculate the correct shock length before ordering up shocks. The original Fox arm also required making a bracket to lower the chain roller under the pivot area to clear the swing arm. You may not need to do that with the KLP or at least not to the extent required for the original Fox.
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11/4/2016 7:53pm
^^^^


To be fair to Karl, I think he was trying to eliminate some of the shock frame clearance issues with the original arm, particularly if using Fox airs. He also used to fab the bracket to drop the lower chain roller up front.

But I was looking for something that was more true to the original, warts and all.
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[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/04/158783/s1200_IMG_3969.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/11/04/158784/s1200_IMG_3970.jpg[/img]




What's interesting about that top real Fox arm is that its spars are two sections welded at the shock mount to make the bend, as are all FF replica arms that I have seen. May have been later arms, but mine is a one piece extrusion with the bend in place. As you can see from my pic, the webbing reinforcing the pivot area differed among original Fox arms. I expect the one piece arms were a 2.0 version.
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Prototype FF arm from Wosicks '79 Hangtown bike, bottom illustration of one piece spar.





FreshTopEnd
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FTE, out of interest, what was wrong with the shape of the KLP swingarm? I've got a new KLP one here too for a Moto-X FOX...
FTE, out of interest, what was wrong with the shape of the KLP swingarm? I've got a new KLP one here too for a Moto-X FOX CR250 we're building, and comparing it to pics of the original, it seems pretty close! Obviously i've heard all the horror stories about fitment etc but so far seems to have mounted up pretty spot on (don't want to speak too soon though!)

I'm just thinking, unless you were comparing the shape to your other different year/shape original FF swingarm?
Chuck, this may illustrate the difference, KLP arm in back, real Fox in middle.

newmann
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11/4/2016 8:32pm
^^^^ To be fair to Karl, I think he was trying to eliminate some of the shock frame clearance issues with the original arm, particularly if...
^^^^


To be fair to Karl, I think he was trying to eliminate some of the shock frame clearance issues with the original arm, particularly if using Fox airs. He also used to fab the bracket to drop the lower chain roller up front.

But I was looking for something that was more true to the original, warts and all.
When doing a nice and correct restoration, the warts are an important factor.
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newmann wrote:
When doing a nice and correct restoration, the warts are an important factor.
But important, too, that people can be trying to accomplish different things, and assuming its built well and it works for what a person is after, it's cool.
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Bnagazina wrote:
So FTE are you warning me that my Fox replica swingarm mat be a crapshoot when I go to install it in the next couple of...
So FTE are you warning me that my Fox replica swingarm mat be a crapshoot when I go to install it in the next couple of weeks? What should I look out for? I notice that my axle adjusters are made the opposite of yours and go through the back.



Honestly, yours looks like it has more angle than mine did, but as you can tell from mine angles in pics can be wonky. you'd have to do a side by side. And if you're happy with it enjoy it!
chuckdavies
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11/7/2016 1:40pm
Newmann & FTE, thanks for the responses - interesting stuff.

Looking at your KLP arm though, and as you mentioned, it seems Karl may have added more of an angle into the later ones as mine seems to have a lot more angle than yours (mine looks the same as Bnagazina's).

Tried to take a pic but it's hard to show the angle:



Unfortunately newmann, we have already refurbed a set of 17.75 Fox Air Shox, so just have to hope it sits OK with them or it may be back to the drawing board with them!

We also didn't realise you had to dent the frames for Fox Shox to fit (Rockets are new to us!), so we had to scrap the freshly powdercoated frame by heating it and denting both sides, and getting it powdercoated again). We removed the side stand bracket before getting it done again which looks 10x better.

We're not doing a replica bike really so these details don't matter too much, but good to discuss! Oh, and the bike won't be ridden either. Far too many rare parts including a NOS '79 Fuel Tank and NOS Kick start off FTE if i remember correctly!



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It was you that picked up the kicker? Here's a story: I was "kicking" myself after selling it because a week or so after - doesn't it always work out that way? - I located an NOS complete 79 engine (all but shifter, which I have, and kicker, which I no longer had).

But a month later came across another NOS kicker (go figure, I calling it God Tongue ) that I got for almost exactly what I sold the other one for. Smile

For what it's worth, eyeballing, your arm looks a lot closer to the original Fox angles than mine did; probably would have kept it had it been that close.

newmann
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11/7/2016 2:17pm
Newmann & FTE, thanks for the responses - interesting stuff. Looking at your KLP arm though, and as you mentioned, it seems Karl may have added...
Newmann & FTE, thanks for the responses - interesting stuff.

Looking at your KLP arm though, and as you mentioned, it seems Karl may have added more of an angle into the later ones as mine seems to have a lot more angle than yours (mine looks the same as Bnagazina's).

Tried to take a pic but it's hard to show the angle:



Unfortunately newmann, we have already refurbed a set of 17.75 Fox Air Shox, so just have to hope it sits OK with them or it may be back to the drawing board with them!

We also didn't realise you had to dent the frames for Fox Shox to fit (Rockets are new to us!), so we had to scrap the freshly powdercoated frame by heating it and denting both sides, and getting it powdercoated again). We removed the side stand bracket before getting it done again which looks 10x better.

We're not doing a replica bike really so these details don't matter too much, but good to discuss! Oh, and the bike won't be ridden either. Far too many rare parts including a NOS '79 Fuel Tank and NOS Kick start off FTE if i remember correctly!



Dent the frame? No way, just grind away on the Fox Shock till it is about to leak! Seems most every set I ever had was done that way...lol. Of course you have to cut away at the top shock mount so that it will clear there as well. I had bought a really nice set of remote piggyback Fox's off Ebay back in the late 90's for my 80 CR250 from a guy in Canada who had them left over from when he raced an 80 model. Got the box and mounting hardware with them. Looked so good on Ebay but when they got here the shafts were visibly bent. Obviously the previous owner had not notched the top mounts out far enough for the shocks to pivot as far as necessary. I had so much money tied up in those shocks by the time they were race ready and then I am guessing they were the wrong spring rates for the Fox arm I was using. Mushy stuff. The good old days when a really nice set of Fox Forks and swing arm set you back a whopping $800.00. Ended up with that much in the shocks at the time after they were rebuilt. Good times!



chuckdavies
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11/7/2016 2:19pm
Yes sir, here she is (excuse the crappy photo)...



But that's mental, you were so lucky to find another NOS one! But even more crazy to find a complete NOS motor!!

Here's our NOS tank as mentioned previously too.



chuckdavies
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11/7/2016 2:24pm
newmann wrote:
Dent the frame? No way, just grind away on the Fox Shock till it is about to leak! Seems most every set I ever had was...
Dent the frame? No way, just grind away on the Fox Shock till it is about to leak! Seems most every set I ever had was done that way...lol. Of course you have to cut away at the top shock mount so that it will clear there as well. I had bought a really nice set of remote piggyback Fox's off Ebay back in the late 90's for my 80 CR250 from a guy in Canada who had them left over from when he raced an 80 model. Got the box and mounting hardware with them. Looked so good on Ebay but when they got here the shafts were visibly bent. Obviously the previous owner had not notched the top mounts out far enough for the shocks to pivot as far as necessary. I had so much money tied up in those shocks by the time they were race ready and then I am guessing they were the wrong spring rates for the Fox arm I was using. Mushy stuff. The good old days when a really nice set of Fox Forks and swing arm set you back a whopping $800.00. Ended up with that much in the shocks at the time after they were rebuilt. Good times!



Great story haha! And yes, the cutting away of the top shock mounts didn't become apparent until we'd dented the frame, but it's all sorted now!

Yeah those days are long gone unfortunately it seems.
newmann
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11/7/2016 3:17pm
My 80 model in the photos above also had a NOS kickstarter on it. You could get all you wanted back in 1999 for $110.00 each. Sadly, I only bought one...
chopperninja
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I am working on my own Fox build and after a long time of searching I finally found an original Fox arm...i had to purchase an entire bike to get it but I'm the end I don't think I will have too much invested. Anyways the Fox catalog shows the rectangular section cut out behind the bearing area just like the klp arm. Has anyone seen an original Fox arm with that section removed? Other then that photo I haven't seen any that had that cut out. Also does anyone know the difference between the RZ and RA models? 1 guy I spoke with told me the RZ model is extremely rare with maybe only 10 made. The arm that he showed me more resembles the prototype models. It's much different then the ones you see everyone run. Here's some photos of it.







GIwasB4
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11/29/2016 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2016 3:01pm
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