Is this a good Vintage buy for Hare Scrambles?

EastFlorida
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2/17/2014 12:41pm Edited Date/Time 2/23/2014 8:17am
Looking at this to race our vintage class (1974 and earlier) in the FTR Hare Scrambles series. My understanding is that these were detuned CR250's.

1974 MT250 with all lights removed...





Any thoughts/input? How available are parts to keep it going? Newman, I know this isn't a CR, but maybe you have some insights...
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EastFlorida
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2/17/2014 7:11pm
Hmmm... Either no one knows about these or no one knows about hare scrambles....

Told it is heavy and has a "fiberglass air box"...

Advised to swap out the metal tank with plastic and the rear wheel with a CR wheel to save about 20 lbs of weight!

Anyone know about swapping rear wheels with an early CR? I'm told most parts will swap...
newmann
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2/17/2014 7:20pm
Never ridden an MT, but can imagine they are heavy. Did someone change the front wheel out with a later model CR front wheel? Not a difficult task, still uses the 74 brake backing plate with the later conical hub. The MT125 has a steel lower triple clamp versus the forged aluminum one on the CR125, Not sure if that carries over to the 250. Ditch the oil injection and oil tank? The electrical system and battery? Put a CR inner rotor ignition on it or get a PVL from me. The rear hub would probably be a cush drive style....heavy. Seat base is probably steel and hinged . Might be able to mod a 75-76 plastic seat base to fit which is what I did for my 73 CR.
EastFlorida
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2/17/2014 7:50pm
newmann wrote:
Never ridden an MT, but can imagine they are heavy. Did someone change the front wheel out with a later model CR front wheel? Not a...
Never ridden an MT, but can imagine they are heavy. Did someone change the front wheel out with a later model CR front wheel? Not a difficult task, still uses the 74 brake backing plate with the later conical hub. The MT125 has a steel lower triple clamp versus the forged aluminum one on the CR125, Not sure if that carries over to the 250. Ditch the oil injection and oil tank? The electrical system and battery? Put a CR inner rotor ignition on it or get a PVL from me. The rear hub would probably be a cush drive style....heavy. Seat base is probably steel and hinged . Might be able to mod a 75-76 plastic seat base to fit which is what I did for my 73 CR.
Yes, newer front wheel...
Oil injector and oil tank are gone...
Electrical and battery gone...
Current rear hub is cush drive, want to swap for lighter wheel like the front (model years?)
Swap metal tank for plastic RC Clark tank (to save weight - keep original tank for later resell)

CR inner rotor/PVL??? PLease explain!
Seat Base mod? Please explain!

What else would you do to make a reliable HS machine? The competition is on '74 Huskys.... Fork/shock mods? Told it has Progressive shocks, fork seals don't leak, don't know anything more yet... Someone did a restoration before the current owner bought the bike.

Thanks!
lostboy819
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2/17/2014 9:56pm
My buddy had a MR and it was Honda's version of the DT yamaha. Not really made for racing but bullet proof and fun and you could ride it to school. Neat looking bike you have .

The Shop

MaxPower
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2/18/2014 2:02am
The MT was Hondas version of Yamahas DT.

The MR was a little more dirt oriented. Basically it was a off road CR

I think that MT is a cool bike East Florida. I don't think you would go wrong if you got that for Vintage Hare Scramble. How many events do they run in Florida per season? Being in Florida do they get whooped out?
2/18/2014 8:53am
^^ yep the MT was kind of Honda's 2 stroke version of their XL. A friend just bought a clean 1974 XL125, in 1974 when I was 10 they seemed so cool, now it seems so little and fragile.
newmann
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2/18/2014 11:58am
newmann wrote:
Never ridden an MT, but can imagine they are heavy. Did someone change the front wheel out with a later model CR front wheel? Not a...
Never ridden an MT, but can imagine they are heavy. Did someone change the front wheel out with a later model CR front wheel? Not a difficult task, still uses the 74 brake backing plate with the later conical hub. The MT125 has a steel lower triple clamp versus the forged aluminum one on the CR125, Not sure if that carries over to the 250. Ditch the oil injection and oil tank? The electrical system and battery? Put a CR inner rotor ignition on it or get a PVL from me. The rear hub would probably be a cush drive style....heavy. Seat base is probably steel and hinged . Might be able to mod a 75-76 plastic seat base to fit which is what I did for my 73 CR.
Yes, newer front wheel... Oil injector and oil tank are gone... Electrical and battery gone... Current rear hub is cush drive, want to swap for lighter...
Yes, newer front wheel...
Oil injector and oil tank are gone...
Electrical and battery gone...
Current rear hub is cush drive, want to swap for lighter wheel like the front (model years?)
Swap metal tank for plastic RC Clark tank (to save weight - keep original tank for later resell)

CR inner rotor/PVL??? PLease explain!
Seat Base mod? Please explain!

What else would you do to make a reliable HS machine? The competition is on '74 Huskys.... Fork/shock mods? Told it has Progressive shocks, fork seals don't leak, don't know anything more yet... Someone did a restoration before the current owner bought the bike.

Thanks!
On the rear wheel, does it have a flat sprocket or a dished sprocket? 73-74 CR250 had a flat sprocket, the 75-76 dished. Not 100% sure if that was because of the hub or engine placement.

Your seat base is probably steel and hinged for access to the battery and suck. A 73-74 CR250 seat pan is junk, a thin layer of plastic sandwiched between two pieces of aluminum about the thickness of aluminum foil. And about the same strength. The 75-76 CR250 seat base is a real plastic base. Make some brackets and live happily ever after. If it fits the frame too wide like it did my 74 CR250, the base can be heated with a heat gun and reshaped with a set of wide vise grip welding/sheetmetal pliers. I ended up getting a better shaped seat foam and cover from Charlie Richardson at CR Racing. It's sweet, no more sacked out sway back mule seat.



On the ignition, pull the cover off and see if it still has a huge external flywheel / generator for the lighting system. Getting rid of all that excess weight and points/condensor and switching over to a lightweight CDI system will get you a dependable spark and faster rev. Good stuff. You can add flywheel weights as necessary.
tydog
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2/20/2014 11:18am
There is a lot of great info here for you EastFla. How many changes you decided to make to it would really be determined by your ability to turn the loud screw. Those were really cool and dependable bikes and the two good things about that one is that I know that bike and can vouch for it being very nice and the current owner is an awesome guy! I bought a bike from him once and we have become good friends, but then again I am buddies with Newmann too!
If you decide to go with it I see no reason that you would be disappointed in it or especially with the honesty of the owner. Plus it is right down the interstate from you!
EastFlorida
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2/20/2014 5:26pm
tydog wrote:
There is a lot of great info here for you EastFla. How many changes you decided to make to it would really be determined by your...
There is a lot of great info here for you EastFla. How many changes you decided to make to it would really be determined by your ability to turn the loud screw. Those were really cool and dependable bikes and the two good things about that one is that I know that bike and can vouch for it being very nice and the current owner is an awesome guy! I bought a bike from him once and we have become good friends, but then again I am buddies with Newmann too!
If you decide to go with it I see no reason that you would be disappointed in it or especially with the honesty of the owner. Plus it is right down the interstate from you!
No doubt, Dan is as honest and forthcoming as they come. Great guy for sure!!
Cancerman
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2/20/2014 10:41pm
I had a friend back in high school who had one. I was racing Yamahas at the time. The MT was heavy, slow reving with the heavy flywheel, no over rev, low and midrange, would hardly wheelie in second with stock gearing. My 73 DT-2 would eat it up. It did feel like a CR when you sat on it though. Suspension was just as bad as the Yammie also.
MaxPower
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2/21/2014 4:13am
To me the decision to get it for vintage off road like any 30+ year old load is how much that bikes memory means to you and how much money you are willing to spend.
The shocks appear chrome. I've never ridden any shocks I like that had chrome springs and body.
It has CR bones. Looks super clean.I'm sure with a few hundred you could lose a few pounds and bolt on some bark.

What bikes would you be competing against?
EastFlorida
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2/21/2014 6:47am
MaxPower wrote:
To me the decision to get it for vintage off road like any 30+ year old load is how much that bikes memory means to you...
To me the decision to get it for vintage off road like any 30+ year old load is how much that bikes memory means to you and how much money you are willing to spend.
The shocks appear chrome. I've never ridden any shocks I like that had chrome springs and body.
It has CR bones. Looks super clean.I'm sure with a few hundred you could lose a few pounds and bolt on some bark.

What bikes would you be competing against?
Max,

The #1 rider is on a Husky! The others are riding a mix of Bultacos, Yamaha DT's and a few MX models...
jzazella
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Phoenix, AZ US
2/21/2014 10:21am
That is a nice looking MT. You will need shocks for sure, and you can easily mod the forks. Either use 73-4-5 cr 250 dampening rods and 20 wt oil, or go with race tech emulators. That said, it is hard to beat the 73-4 Husky, either cr or wr model, if you can find one..
RiV
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2/21/2014 12:10pm
Cancerman wrote:
I had a friend back in high school who had one. I was racing Yamahas at the time. The MT was heavy, slow reving with the...
I had a friend back in high school who had one. I was racing Yamahas at the time. The MT was heavy, slow reving with the heavy flywheel, no over rev, low and midrange, would hardly wheelie in second with stock gearing. My 73 DT-2 would eat it up. It did feel like a CR when you sat on it though. Suspension was just as bad as the Yammie also.
I agree, from what little I rode them they were not a powerhouse for sure.
The ignition swap mention in earlier posts seem to be a big step in the
right direction, the only hare scrambles I've ridden needed some top speed
in a couple areas-you would be a better judge on that...........
MaxPower
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2/23/2014 8:17am Edited Date/Time 2/23/2014 8:27am
What about your opinion on it East Florida? You are the one that is going to race it.
2200 is a lot . I know it might have cost that to build it. But there are other vintage MX bikes that hold value better than a raced out MT. It's a nice bike. If its worth it to you than it's worth it. If he had the title and lights to pit it back to a dual sport bike the price sounds better

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