Should the US have resupplied Israel last week?

The Rock
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Edited Date/Time 8/11/2014 7:07pm
Talk about bad timing yeah? You know Israel is pounding Gaza into the stone age when they need more ammo. Have you looked at map to see how small of an area Gaza is?



On a different note nice that the Israel listened in on Kerry's phone calls....who do they think they are....the NSA?

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TeamGreen
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8/3/2014 1:03pm
I'll say...

"Yes"

I'm not going to get into a specific argument. I believe they should press on until the tunnels are eliminated and the rockets stop.

It's been reported that HAMAS has 10,000 rockets/3,500 (est.) have been used.

How many Cease-Fires have been breached?
By whom?
Who fires from Civilian Positions?
Why was the 1st Rocket fired?
What was it suppose to accomplish?
Does HAMAS care about Palestinian Civilian Casualties?
What's HAMAS's Public Position on Israel?
Brad460
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8/3/2014 4:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2014 4:31pm
X3

And of course no one wants to see innocent civilians die- perhaps they need to rise up and oppose Hamas themselves..

ns503
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8/3/2014 4:36pm
No.

The disregard for innocent civilians per the strikes on UN 'safe places' isn't winning them any of my support.

Not that that matters much...

The Shop

TeamGreen
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8/3/2014 4:37pm
Brad460 wrote:
X3

And of course no one wants to see innocent civilians die- perhaps they need to rise up and oppose Hamas themselves..

If only...

When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist?

Well, that day can't come soon enough.
Brad460
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8/3/2014 4:52pm Edited Date/Time 8/3/2014 4:52pm
ns503 wrote:
No.

The disregard for innocent civilians per the strikes on UN 'safe places' isn't winning them any of my support.

Not that that matters much...
The same places rockets are being stored? The same places there is video of gun firing being shot out the windows? Those "safe" places?

Again, perhaps those civilians need to rise up against Hamas and refuse to be human shields..
TeamGreen
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8/3/2014 4:54pm
ns503 wrote:
No.

The disregard for innocent civilians per the strikes on UN 'safe places' isn't winning them any of my support.

Not that that matters much...
The Rockets are tracked on, get this, "Tracking Radar" and anti-missile batteries return fire on the Launch Site...indiscriminately and immediately...tho, the Israelis have been calling ahead and attempting to clear these facilities. Delaying, if you will. Seems HAMAS is using their intel resources and intercepting some of these calls & giving the all-clear...Israel has some of these calls on record.

HAMAS is doing this on purpose. Do you know their history? Seen the reports of them forcing innocents to stay in their homes in order for them to become "Martyrs"?

BBC and a other foreign news sources have some excellent exposés on the subject.

There's no denying that the loss of human life is Totally F'd Up. I'd prefer some specialized hit squads going in and eliminating the rocket "handlers"...

Imagine someone launching rockets on Toronto from populated areas in Detroit? You'd just take it? That's a reach I know; but, it does explain the dynamics, here.

As a few in here know, I come from the world of missiles and rockets...radar and satellites. I'm not reaching here. Been there, seen that, had the humus & gefilte fish, saw the hotties on then beach toting ARs, TARs & FALs...it's an entirely different world, over there.
borg
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8/3/2014 6:42pm
The chances that any kind of peace will occur ever is very low. The chances of any kind of peace occurring while Hamas is there is zero.
TeamGreen
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8/3/2014 6:49pm
borg wrote:
The chances that any kind of peace will occur ever is very low. The chances of any kind of peace occurring while Hamas is there is...
The chances that any kind of peace will occur ever is very low. The chances of any kind of peace occurring while Hamas is there is zero.
Sad; but, true.
The Rock
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8/3/2014 8:55pm
ns503 wrote:
No.

The disregard for innocent civilians per the strikes on UN 'safe places' isn't winning them any of my support.

Not that that matters much...
TeamGreen wrote:
The Rockets are tracked on, get this, "Tracking Radar" and anti-missile batteries return fire on the Launch Site...indiscriminately and immediately...tho, the Israelis have been calling ahead...
The Rockets are tracked on, get this, "Tracking Radar" and anti-missile batteries return fire on the Launch Site...indiscriminately and immediately...tho, the Israelis have been calling ahead and attempting to clear these facilities. Delaying, if you will. Seems HAMAS is using their intel resources and intercepting some of these calls & giving the all-clear...Israel has some of these calls on record.

HAMAS is doing this on purpose. Do you know their history? Seen the reports of them forcing innocents to stay in their homes in order for them to become "Martyrs"?

BBC and a other foreign news sources have some excellent exposés on the subject.

There's no denying that the loss of human life is Totally F'd Up. I'd prefer some specialized hit squads going in and eliminating the rocket "handlers"...

Imagine someone launching rockets on Toronto from populated areas in Detroit? You'd just take it? That's a reach I know; but, it does explain the dynamics, here.

As a few in here know, I come from the world of missiles and rockets...radar and satellites. I'm not reaching here. Been there, seen that, had the humus & gefilte fish, saw the hotties on then beach toting ARs, TARs & FALs...it's an entirely different world, over there.
Imagine someone launching rockets on Toronto from populated areas in Detroit? You'd just take it? That's a reach I know; but, it does explain the dynamics, here.

There is a difference between just taking it, responding to the situation with appropriate force then there is responding to the situation with overwhelming force. In your example and mirroring the middle east for an analogy Detroit's response would be to hit Toronto with everything they had to the point of having to go ask for more ammo.

I would rather see Detroit perform surgical strikes on Toronto utilizing drones than leveling the city including it's power station.
8/3/2014 9:08pm
Brad460 wrote:
X3

And of course no one wants to see innocent civilians die- perhaps they need to rise up and oppose Hamas themselves..

TeamGreen wrote:
If only... When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist...
If only...

When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist?

Well, that day can't come soon enough.
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian?

That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man.

But to answer the OPs original question, fuck no we shouldn't have resupplied Israel. We should cut off all aid to Israel IMO. We got problems here that need fixing. I'm just not a big fan of foreign aid considering it's so subjective in who gets it and who is ignored. Especially when the business of foreign aid is pretty shady and there are those making a fortune off of it at the tax payers expense.
TeamGreen
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8/3/2014 9:11pm
Brad460 wrote:
X3

And of course no one wants to see innocent civilians die- perhaps they need to rise up and oppose Hamas themselves..

TeamGreen wrote:
If only... When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist...
If only...

When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist?

Well, that day can't come soon enough.
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian? That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man. But...
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian?

That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man.

But to answer the OPs original question, fuck no we shouldn't have resupplied Israel. We should cut off all aid to Israel IMO. We got problems here that need fixing. I'm just not a big fan of foreign aid considering it's so subjective in who gets it and who is ignored. Especially when the business of foreign aid is pretty shady and there are those making a fortune off of it at the tax payers expense.
Harry Truman signed us up for all of this.
8/3/2014 9:29pm
TeamGreen wrote:
If only... When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist...
If only...

When the day comes that the Palestinians are SERIOUS about negotiating a 2 State Solution in GOOD FAITH & acknowledge Israel's Right to Exist?

Well, that day can't come soon enough.
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian? That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man. But...
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian?

That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man.

But to answer the OPs original question, fuck no we shouldn't have resupplied Israel. We should cut off all aid to Israel IMO. We got problems here that need fixing. I'm just not a big fan of foreign aid considering it's so subjective in who gets it and who is ignored. Especially when the business of foreign aid is pretty shady and there are those making a fortune off of it at the tax payers expense.
TeamGreen wrote:
Harry Truman signed us up for all of this.
Probably at gunpoint by the banking cartels. I dunno how, but I'm guessing they're behind this in some way. I blame them for everything.
The Rock
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8/3/2014 10:05pm
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian? That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man. But...
Would u believe in Israel's right to exist if u were a Palestinian?

That's like saying the Indians shouldn't be bitter at the white man.

But to answer the OPs original question, fuck no we shouldn't have resupplied Israel. We should cut off all aid to Israel IMO. We got problems here that need fixing. I'm just not a big fan of foreign aid considering it's so subjective in who gets it and who is ignored. Especially when the business of foreign aid is pretty shady and there are those making a fortune off of it at the tax payers expense.
I am not suggesting cutting off our 3 plus billion of aid to Israel but they could help a brother out by maybe waiting to have the US restock them next time especially in view of the following:

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) Israel withdrew most of its ground troops from the Gaza Strip on Sunday in an apparent winding down of the nearly monthlong operation against Hamas that has left more than 1,800 Palestinians and more than 60 Israelis dead.

Barrett57
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8/4/2014 10:14am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 10:30am
60 Israelis to 1800 palestinans killed and 8000 injured who are mostly civilians, and that's reasonable force?
jtomasik
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8/4/2014 11:18am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 11:21am
No. And no disrespect to Israel. That issue isn't a matter that threatens the sovereignty of the U.S. In fact, it might be argued our intervention is more of a danger to our country. That whole middle east needs to figure itself out without us sticking our nose in their business. Our involvement only brings the problems here, because nothing we've done has made things better in the middle east.

And, if they can't figure it out when left on their own, then I guess they deserve the results of their actions.

Yanno, I wonder if instead of dropping weaponry on the middle east, we dropped humanitarian aid (medical, education, agricultural aid) instead in those same dollar amounts, and what that place would be like if we did that? Just curious. You'd think the Christians in this country would've fought for that.
8/4/2014 11:44am
jtomasik wrote:
No. And no disrespect to Israel. That issue isn't a matter that threatens the sovereignty of the U.S. In fact, it might be argued our intervention...
No. And no disrespect to Israel. That issue isn't a matter that threatens the sovereignty of the U.S. In fact, it might be argued our intervention is more of a danger to our country. That whole middle east needs to figure itself out without us sticking our nose in their business. Our involvement only brings the problems here, because nothing we've done has made things better in the middle east.

And, if they can't figure it out when left on their own, then I guess they deserve the results of their actions.

Yanno, I wonder if instead of dropping weaponry on the middle east, we dropped humanitarian aid (medical, education, agricultural aid) instead in those same dollar amounts, and what that place would be like if we did that? Just curious. You'd think the Christians in this country would've fought for that.
" You'd think the Christians in this country would've fought for that."

Most of the larger denominations are and have been seeking / working for a peaceful end to the conflict for a long time.
newmann
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8/4/2014 11:44am
ns503 wrote:
No.

The disregard for innocent civilians per the strikes on UN 'safe places' isn't winning them any of my support.

Not that that matters much...
TeamGreen wrote:
The Rockets are tracked on, get this, "Tracking Radar" and anti-missile batteries return fire on the Launch Site...indiscriminately and immediately...tho, the Israelis have been calling ahead...
The Rockets are tracked on, get this, "Tracking Radar" and anti-missile batteries return fire on the Launch Site...indiscriminately and immediately...tho, the Israelis have been calling ahead and attempting to clear these facilities. Delaying, if you will. Seems HAMAS is using their intel resources and intercepting some of these calls & giving the all-clear...Israel has some of these calls on record.

HAMAS is doing this on purpose. Do you know their history? Seen the reports of them forcing innocents to stay in their homes in order for them to become "Martyrs"?

BBC and a other foreign news sources have some excellent exposés on the subject.

There's no denying that the loss of human life is Totally F'd Up. I'd prefer some specialized hit squads going in and eliminating the rocket "handlers"...

Imagine someone launching rockets on Toronto from populated areas in Detroit? You'd just take it? That's a reach I know; but, it does explain the dynamics, here.

As a few in here know, I come from the world of missiles and rockets...radar and satellites. I'm not reaching here. Been there, seen that, had the humus & gefilte fish, saw the hotties on then beach toting ARs, TARs & FALs...it's an entirely different world, over there.
The Rock wrote:
[i]Imagine someone launching rockets on Toronto from populated areas in Detroit? You'd just take it? That's a reach I know; but, it does explain the dynamics...
Imagine someone launching rockets on Toronto from populated areas in Detroit? You'd just take it? That's a reach I know; but, it does explain the dynamics, here.

There is a difference between just taking it, responding to the situation with appropriate force then there is responding to the situation with overwhelming force. In your example and mirroring the middle east for an analogy Detroit's response would be to hit Toronto with everything they had to the point of having to go ask for more ammo.

I would rather see Detroit perform surgical strikes on Toronto utilizing drones than leveling the city including it's power station.
So, Hamas should have quit launching when they saw the epic shitstorm that came their way, right?
Uncle Tony
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8/4/2014 11:53am
Barrett57 wrote:
60 Israelis to 1800 palestinans killed and 8000 injured who are mostly civilians, and that's reasonable force?
This
4stroke4DWIN
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8/4/2014 11:57am
Maybe they should use paintball guns instead, The problem with modern warfare is................rules. Wipe them off the earth and be done with it, collateral damage? Sorry shouldn't be housing assholes.
jtomasik
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8/4/2014 1:39pm
Maybe they should use paintball guns instead, The problem with modern warfare is................rules. Wipe them off the earth and be done with it, collateral damage? Sorry...
Maybe they should use paintball guns instead, The problem with modern warfare is................rules. Wipe them off the earth and be done with it, collateral damage? Sorry shouldn't be housing assholes.
I don't believe it's the modern warfare that demands rules; rather, it's the reason for fighting that does it. The warfare being used is still conventional warheads, much the same as in WWII. Difference is WWII was a true global threat that justified the fire bombings of Germany and Japan. Those were true global threats. Shit like Iraq, Hamas, etc., are annoyances, but containable and not truly a global threat. Add to that when it's the same regime your own government supplied training and arms to, and it's tough to justify wiping out the area in question.

We just don't do it right from the beginning. Fucking around with Israel and the whole damn middle east has been little more than profit-taking by our country. For many reasons, we shouldn't be anywhere near those issues.
TeamGreen
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8/4/2014 2:39pm
3,000-3,500 Rockets fired on CIVILIAN POPULATION.

Every Cease Fire violated by the same side.

Civilians Intentionally put in harms way.
8/4/2014 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 3:08pm
jtomasik wrote:
No. And no disrespect to Israel. That issue isn't a matter that threatens the sovereignty of the U.S. In fact, it might be argued our intervention...
No. And no disrespect to Israel. That issue isn't a matter that threatens the sovereignty of the U.S. In fact, it might be argued our intervention is more of a danger to our country. That whole middle east needs to figure itself out without us sticking our nose in their business. Our involvement only brings the problems here, because nothing we've done has made things better in the middle east.

And, if they can't figure it out when left on their own, then I guess they deserve the results of their actions.

Yanno, I wonder if instead of dropping weaponry on the middle east, we dropped humanitarian aid (medical, education, agricultural aid) instead in those same dollar amounts, and what that place would be like if we did that? Just curious. You'd think the Christians in this country would've fought for that.
"That issue isn't a matter that threatens the sovereignty of the U.S. In fact, it might be argued our intervention is more of a danger to our country. "

Exactly.

When it comes down to it, the only reason the United States is providing support for Israel is because it benefits US weapons manufacturers.

You guys realize that we give Israel 300 billion dollars a year and 75% of that is required to be used to purchase weapons from us?

We're not humanitarians, we are war profiteers.

If you want to support Israel or Palestine be my guest. Use your own money. I don't want any more blood on my hands.

[Edit: grammar]
Barrett57
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8/4/2014 3:10pm
TeamGreen wrote:
3,000-3,500 Rockets fired on CIVILIAN POPULATION.

Every Cease Fire violated by the same side.

Civilians Intentionally put in harms way.
So how does throwing as many shells, bombs and missiles as you can into Gaza help the situation?

I understand Israel defending themselves, but there comes a point where they've gone past self defence and it turns to just pointless death that accomplishes nothing.

They haven't destroyed hamas, all they've done is sent Israeli soldiers to die, killed a few militants and killed a ridiculous amount of innocent people.

And after all this Hamas will still be firing rockets at Israel.

jtomasik
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8/4/2014 3:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/4/2014 3:38pm
TeamGreen wrote:
3,000-3,500 Rockets fired on CIVILIAN POPULATION.

Every Cease Fire violated by the same side.

Civilians Intentionally put in harms way.
Barrett57 wrote:
So how does throwing as many shells, bombs and missiles as you can into Gaza help the situation? I understand Israel defending themselves, but there comes...
So how does throwing as many shells, bombs and missiles as you can into Gaza help the situation?

I understand Israel defending themselves, but there comes a point where they've gone past self defence and it turns to just pointless death that accomplishes nothing.

They haven't destroyed hamas, all they've done is sent Israeli soldiers to die, killed a few militants and killed a ridiculous amount of innocent people.

And after all this Hamas will still be firing rockets at Israel.

They have every right to bomb, and the Hamas have every right to shoot their rockets. It's a territorial battle, and they need to figure it out for themselves. Let them sort it out. We shouldn't take sides. We should, however, be sending aid through the UN to BOTH sides equally...if we insist on doing something.
vet323
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8/4/2014 3:59pm
The Israelis use their weapons to protect their civilians and Hamas uses their civilians to protect their weapons.

IMO, If Gaza was ruled by the Palestinian Authority just like the West Bank is, there would be no violence right now.
4stroke4DWIN
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8/4/2014 4:55pm
Jakes Dad wrote:
Ok time for a little lesson, take the time and watch. Simple and to the point. And then you'll know why Netanyahu told Obama "don't ever...
Ok time for a little lesson, take the time and watch. Simple and to the point. And then you'll know why Netanyahu told Obama "don't ever 2nd guess my decisions"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8&list=PLIBtb_NuIJ1zs1gI2nYdZ…
Good Video.
The Rock
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8/5/2014 1:39am Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 1:41am
vet323 wrote:
The Israelis use their weapons to protect their civilians and Hamas uses their civilians to protect their weapons. IMO, If Gaza was ruled by the Palestinian...
The Israelis use their weapons to protect their civilians and Hamas uses their civilians to protect their weapons.

IMO, If Gaza was ruled by the Palestinian Authority just like the West Bank is, there would be no violence right now.
IMO, If Gaza was ruled by the Palestinian Authority just like the West Bank is, there would be no violence right now.

BINGO. Why doesn't someone ask Netanyahu why he lifted the moratorium on settlements? Abbas who is the head of Fatah which governs the West Bank would not resume talks with Netanyahu while the settlements expanded because he had nothing to show his people after a few year of cooperating with the Israelis. Time went by and even after Fatah and Hamas battled it out in the Church of Nativity Netanayahu refused to seize the opportunity to work with Abbas.

NOW Netanyahu is chapped at Abbas for forming a unity government with Hamas. What was Abbas supposed to do? Wait a few years for yet more settlement expansion while he is left holding his johnson in one hand and nothing in the other.
The Rock
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8/5/2014 1:58am Edited Date/Time 8/5/2014 2:08am
TeamGreen wrote:
3,000-3,500 Rockets fired on CIVILIAN POPULATION.

Every Cease Fire violated by the same side.

Civilians Intentionally put in harms way.
Barrett57 wrote:
So how does throwing as many shells, bombs and missiles as you can into Gaza help the situation? I understand Israel defending themselves, but there comes...
So how does throwing as many shells, bombs and missiles as you can into Gaza help the situation?

I understand Israel defending themselves, but there comes a point where they've gone past self defence and it turns to just pointless death that accomplishes nothing.

They haven't destroyed hamas, all they've done is sent Israeli soldiers to die, killed a few militants and killed a ridiculous amount of innocent people.

And after all this Hamas will still be firing rockets at Israel.

They haven't destroyed hamas, all they've done is sent Israeli soldiers to die, killed a few militants and killed a ridiculous amount of innocent people.

Realistic post without any emotional sentiment or distortion. Thank you.

I agree that Hamas will still be firing and this most recent azz whooping really doesn't help the situation particularly the Israelis. Hamas plays Israel like a violin and has no problem sacrificing their women and children in order to bring bad press to the Israelis.

Latest was this on Sunday just as the pull out was beginning after it already had been identified to the Israelis as a non target area.

EDIT Team Green-Have you seen any accounting on how many missiles, bombs, and bullets Israel has rained down on Gaza's CIVILIAN POPULATION? I haven't. Israel also took out the power plant in Gaza so potable water is now and issue so fasten your seat belt for a huge humanitarian crisis. The world is freaking insane.


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