Painting Metal

IWreckALot
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IWreckALot
Edited Date/Time 5/15/2015 8:01am
I've been welding some stuff lately mostly for furniture. Anyone know of a more scratch resistant way to paint metal? Right now I'm just using a Rustoleum rattle can and painting it all a flat black. It's the primer and paint in one. The problem is it seems like it scratches relatively easy. Does a self etching primer do anything different that a normal primer doesn't do? It's probably worth noting that the steel I buy already has a coat of primer on it. I have to grind the corners away because of the weld, but it is mostly primed when I hit it with the rattle can.

I'm trying to come up with an option that doesn't break the bank. Eastwood.com has an etching product but at $15 a can, I'd be way over budget on my projects since I use about 6 cans easily on the things I've built so far. Are auto paints any more scratch resistant? Should I use a semi gloss? Would that help prevent scratches? I'm wanting to sell some of these things but I don't want to sell something that is going to scratch easily.
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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 5/13/2015 12:29pm
5/13/2015 12:29pm
I don't know if this would be a route you would wanna go, but some of the metal tables I've built I painted using that cheap spray can truck bed paint. It's more of a flat black look and it seems to be decently durable. Just a thought.
Dtat720
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Dtat720 5/13/2015 12:33pm
5/13/2015 12:33pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2015 12:34pm
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by dupont is very good, and is dirt cheap. 30-40 a gallon. Pick up a cheap gun amd spray away. Just keep the gun cleaned after use.

And nason is sold at oreilly auto parts, no need to go to a paint shop for it
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 5/13/2015 12:47pm
5/13/2015 12:47pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by...
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by dupont is very good, and is dirt cheap. 30-40 a gallon. Pick up a cheap gun amd spray away. Just keep the gun cleaned after use.

And nason is sold at oreilly auto parts, no need to go to a paint shop for it
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly.

I was also considering calling a few powdercoating shops to see what they charge but I'm afraid that will be too much money and not time effective.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 5/13/2015 12:51pm
5/13/2015 12:51pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by...
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by dupont is very good, and is dirt cheap. 30-40 a gallon. Pick up a cheap gun amd spray away. Just keep the gun cleaned after use.

And nason is sold at oreilly auto parts, no need to go to a paint shop for it
IWreckALot wrote:
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly. I...
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly.

I was also considering calling a few powdercoating shops to see what they charge but I'm afraid that will be too much money and not time effective.
I'm not sure about any of your local powdercoaters, but some of the stuff we had done locally here was more than reasonable. I was actually surprised at how little they charged to do it. They did 3 chairs and my parents even had them do the stairs and rail for their pool and it turned out great.

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IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 5/13/2015 12:59pm
5/13/2015 12:59pm
Dtat720 wrote:
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by...
Single stage automotive paints are pretty cheap and extremely durable. You can get a gallon of matte black for about 30-70 depending on brand. Nason by dupont is very good, and is dirt cheap. 30-40 a gallon. Pick up a cheap gun amd spray away. Just keep the gun cleaned after use.

And nason is sold at oreilly auto parts, no need to go to a paint shop for it
IWreckALot wrote:
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly. I...
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly.

I was also considering calling a few powdercoating shops to see what they charge but I'm afraid that will be too much money and not time effective.
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'm not sure about any of your local powdercoaters, but some of the stuff we had done locally here was more than reasonable. I was actually...
I'm not sure about any of your local powdercoaters, but some of the stuff we had done locally here was more than reasonable. I was actually surprised at how little they charged to do it. They did 3 chairs and my parents even had them do the stairs and rail for their pool and it turned out great.
Do you recall the price roughly? What kind of prep work did yall do? Anything?
Dtat720
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Dtat720 5/13/2015 1:15pm
5/13/2015 1:15pm
Looks like nason is only sold in kit form now for about $180. But a gallon kit is enough to cover a mid size car... Thats at 3 coats. So weigh the price v. coverage and decide if its worth it. You only have to mix the amount you need and can store it in a cool dark area for a bit in between uses.

I have some single stage House of Kolors i use on bicycle parts, can is over a year old and sprays like its fresh...
motogeezer
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motogeezer 5/13/2015 1:18pm
5/13/2015 1:18pm
If you're using shop-primed metal, no need to etch.

I think the problem you're having is because the shop primer has been sitting around too long, since all primers have a re-coat window.

If you sand and re-prime with a decent metal primer after fabrication, you should be good to go with any top-coat you want to use.

Sherwin Williams has a really good acrylic primer and top-coat system for metal that you can even get a nice finish out of with a brush and roller, if you want to go that rout.

Pro-Cryl Primer / Pro-Industrial Acrylic top-coat.

No solvents, no dizzy, no headache.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 5/13/2015 1:55pm
5/13/2015 1:55pm
motogeezer wrote:
If you're using shop-primed metal, no need to etch. I think the problem you're having is because the shop primer has been sitting around too long...
If you're using shop-primed metal, no need to etch.

I think the problem you're having is because the shop primer has been sitting around too long, since all primers have a re-coat window.

If you sand and re-prime with a decent metal primer after fabrication, you should be good to go with any top-coat you want to use.

Sherwin Williams has a really good acrylic primer and top-coat system for metal that you can even get a nice finish out of with a brush and roller, if you want to go that rout.

Pro-Cryl Primer / Pro-Industrial Acrylic top-coat.

No solvents, no dizzy, no headache.
How does the roll on paint go on? I've debated using a roll on or brush but I don't want to see brush strokes. I have a neighbor that works for PPG. I may ask him if they have a comparable product.
newmann
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newmann 5/13/2015 2:15pm
5/13/2015 2:15pm
Flat black? Go to the local PPG auto paint store and buy yourself

1 qt. DX-579 Metal Prep. Phosphoric acid metal cleaner for your bare steel. Get them to print you the P-bulletin for directions on all of these.

1 qt. DX-520 Galvaprep. Etches the bare steel for adhesion. Also leaves a zinc phosphate coating for corrosion resistance

1 qt. Urethane reducer

1 qt. DP-90 Black epoxy primer

1 qt. DP-401 epoxy activator

1 gallon wash thinner to clean up with

1 3M disposable respirator


This will give you a really good and durable finish by itself in a low gloss/flat black. If you are putting this outdoors, remember it is a primer and not going to have much UV resistance. You can paint over this stuff with pretty much any automotive grade paint within 7 days without having to scuff or sand it.

The metal cleaners will clean all that nasty black iron you are making stuff out of. Cleans off dirt, oil, weld funk and allows for a surface that your paint will actually adhere to. The DP primers will last you through quite a few projects and can be sprayed through a regular paint gun. You do not need a big ass primer needle/nozzle combo.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 5/13/2015 2:20pm
5/13/2015 2:20pm
IWreckALot wrote:
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly. I...
This is more what I was leaning towards. Almost asked Newmann directly what he thought since he works with auto body if I remember correctly.

I was also considering calling a few powdercoating shops to see what they charge but I'm afraid that will be too much money and not time effective.
hvaughn88 wrote:
I'm not sure about any of your local powdercoaters, but some of the stuff we had done locally here was more than reasonable. I was actually...
I'm not sure about any of your local powdercoaters, but some of the stuff we had done locally here was more than reasonable. I was actually surprised at how little they charged to do it. They did 3 chairs and my parents even had them do the stairs and rail for their pool and it turned out great.
IWreckALot wrote:
Do you recall the price roughly? What kind of prep work did yall do? Anything?
I don't know what they paid for the pool railing and steps. But I know the chairs were about $100 each. That included prep, sandblasting (the chair was over 50 years old and had old flaked paint and surface rust and in pretty rough shape) and the powdercoating.
newmann
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newmann 5/13/2015 2:21pm
5/13/2015 2:21pm
Also, since you are painting tubing and such, a small detail paint gun will probably work better for you than a full size gun. Grab a cheapy from the paint store for starters. HVLP (or not...Smile ) gravity fed will use less air, get you in and around tight spaces and not waste as much in overspray as you paint a bunch of 1 inch wide metal tubing.
motogeezer
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motogeezer 5/13/2015 2:55pm
5/13/2015 2:55pm
IWreckALot wrote:
How does the roll on paint go on? I've debated using a roll on or brush but I don't want to see brush strokes. I have...
How does the roll on paint go on? I've debated using a roll on or brush but I don't want to see brush strokes. I have a neighbor that works for PPG. I may ask him if they have a comparable product.
If you don't have too many tight spots in the finished product, you can get into the corners with a 3/8 nap weenie roller.

We've applied the Pro Industrial enamel by brush and roll on literally thousands of metal doors and frames and miles of tube steel fences and it lays down so well that they damned near look sprayed when they're dry.

borg
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borg 5/13/2015 3:38pm
5/13/2015 3:38pm
We used a hammer finish spray paint that was really tough. I don't remember the name but it had a silicone base. Wasn't expensive either. Kind of a silver grey color.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 5/14/2015 1:57pm
5/14/2015 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2015 2:03pm
motogeezer wrote:
If you're using shop-primed metal, no need to etch. I think the problem you're having is because the shop primer has been sitting around too long...
If you're using shop-primed metal, no need to etch.

I think the problem you're having is because the shop primer has been sitting around too long, since all primers have a re-coat window.

If you sand and re-prime with a decent metal primer after fabrication, you should be good to go with any top-coat you want to use.

Sherwin Williams has a really good acrylic primer and top-coat system for metal that you can even get a nice finish out of with a brush and roller, if you want to go that rout.

Pro-Cryl Primer / Pro-Industrial Acrylic top-coat.

No solvents, no dizzy, no headache.
I think this is the route I'm going to try first. I have a good deal on some acrylic primer and top coat through my neighbor. Now all I need is a good HVLP gun. What is a good brand of sprayer to get?

Keep in mind I only have a pancake compressor.
newmann
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newmann 5/14/2015 2:21pm
5/14/2015 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2015 2:37pm
HVLP means High Volume Low Pressure, something you are not going to get with a pancake compressor. Also requires 3/8 inch ID air hose and high flow fittings to get proper volume. Get a NON HVLP gravity feed mini/detail cheapo from harbor freight or your local auto paint supplier. Keep things simple.

MT MX
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MT MX 5/14/2015 2:59pm
5/14/2015 2:59pm
newmann wrote:
HVLP means High Volume Low Pressure, something you are not going to get with a pancake compressor. Also requires 3/8 inch ID air hose and high...
HVLP means High Volume Low Pressure, something you are not going to get with a pancake compressor. Also requires 3/8 inch ID air hose and high flow fittings to get proper volume. Get a NON HVLP gravity feed mini/detail cheapo from harbor freight or your local auto paint supplier. Keep things simple.

A pancake compressor will work with the HVLP sprayers from Harbor Freight. I just sprayed a bunch of kids furniture that I built using a HVLP sprayer I got at HF with water based paint & finish and it worked good with no problems, but my Porter Cable pancake compressor ran the whole dang time. I wish I would've just went to my other shop and got my larger compressor.

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