No indictment in New York...thoughts.

Stephon
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Edited Date/Time 12/6/2014 11:46am
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IWreckALot
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12/3/2014 12:59pm
In the short bit I read, this is quite a bit different than the Ferguson deal. NYPD policy was not followed and resulted in death. I can't find why there was a physical altercation. Maybe he was trying to resist arrest? I think I need more details on the decision before my thoughts are cast on this one.

I can say this was handled much more efficient than the Ferguson deal.

The only reason this is a national story is because of the Ferguson deal. On the surface, this appears more offensive than the Ferguson deal.

Skippie
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12/3/2014 1:16pm
I heard about this story a few months ago, I'm surprised he wasn't indicted. NYPD banned the use of head locks awhile back. While I do believe he was resisting arrest, this is different then hitting an officer and reaching for his gun. Could have got him on the ground and held him down some other way. Or the other officer could have used a tazer (assuming he had one) if it really got out of hand.
IWreckALot
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12/3/2014 1:58pm
Skippie wrote:
I heard about this story a few months ago, I'm surprised he wasn't indicted. NYPD banned the use of head locks awhile back. While I do...
I heard about this story a few months ago, I'm surprised he wasn't indicted. NYPD banned the use of head locks awhile back. While I do believe he was resisting arrest, this is different then hitting an officer and reaching for his gun. Could have got him on the ground and held him down some other way. Or the other officer could have used a tazer (assuming he had one) if it really got out of hand.
I thought I read that there were two or three officers present. That makes this a little more puzzling.
Skippie
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12/3/2014 2:01pm
IWreckALot wrote:
I thought I read that there were two or three officers present. That makes this a little more puzzling.
Ya I definitely remember there being more then one. All the more so. This man should be charged criminally.

The Shop

Stephon
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12/3/2014 2:50pm
IWreckALot wrote:
In the short bit I read, this is quite a bit different than the Ferguson deal. NYPD policy was not followed and resulted in death. I...
In the short bit I read, this is quite a bit different than the Ferguson deal. NYPD policy was not followed and resulted in death. I can't find why there was a physical altercation. Maybe he was trying to resist arrest? I think I need more details on the decision before my thoughts are cast on this one.

I can say this was handled much more efficient than the Ferguson deal.

The only reason this is a national story is because of the Ferguson deal. On the surface, this appears more offensive than the Ferguson deal.

The only reason this is a national story is because of the Ferguson deal.

Okay, I was thinking it was a national story because:

1) he was unarmed, being dealt with for something that was probably the equivalent of a jaywalking ticket.

2) he was choked, which is against NYPD policy.

3) The Medical Examiner ruled his death a homicide by choking.

4) It's on video.

Should this NOT be a national story? Regardless of Ferguson?

12/3/2014 3:05pm
Once again there was a senseless death from a confrontation between a black man that was suspected of committing a crime and a white police officer when the suspect did not comply with the demands of the police officer.

Without seeing how the whole thing went down it's not fair to make a judgment. There obviously was more to this confrontation than what was caught and/or shown on the video clip.

He obviously resisted arrest on the video and whether or not the supposed "choke hold" was the type that hand been banned by the NYPD but not by law is in question. The officer administering the hold from the back had his left arm around the neck but his right arm was an underhook under the armpit of the man, not a MMA style rear naked choke. Whether or not it was changed later to that style of choke I don't know.

Whether or not it is true I'm not sure but I heard that he had 31 prior arrests. Were any of those for resisting arrest? Why didn't he just comply and let them cuff him?

Anytime you don't comply with orders from the police you are asking for trouble.

The remarks by Obama about people being treated fairly and nonsense and once again he fuels the fire for racial tension. I don't care who are what color you are, if you don't comply with the orders things will get worse in short fashion.
12/3/2014 3:08pm
Once again the Justice System worked. The force used was justified and minimal. Death was the result of his medical condition. I'm sorry the Mayor of NYC didn't get his indictment. Then again, I'm sorry the Mayor of NYC has no clue what a choke hold is vs the tactic of "where the head goes the body follows". The Officers took him to the ground. That is normal procedure and it's used to protect the Officers while at the same time using minimal force to gain control of someone not willing to follow orders. If anyone had a choke hold placed on them they would know that within 3 seconds you begin to black out and you don't say, "I can't breath". No Officer wanted to see this man die or seriously injured. Bill Bratton and the Mayor are spineless. It's a blessing that this incident was recorded.
12/3/2014 3:50pm
This one is for sure a bigger gray area. I heard they were taking him in for selling cigarettes. I don't know why they couldn't have just given him a ticket and been done with it. The only thing I can think of is that maybe had warrants. He was acting a little erratically and if they are placing him under arrest it does reach a point that they do end up having to tackle him. I have had to tackle people by their neck like that though and it can be done without cutting off their airway. We just have no way of knowing if he was just doing it to control him or actually cutting off his airway. I doubt he was squeezing him that hard because he wasn't trying to kill him.


The other side of it is that he is morbidly obese and when people are unhealthy like that they do have a greater chance of dying when their body is put under a lot of stress. If they knocked a blood clot loose it could have went to his lung or heart and that could have been what killed him. Not to take anything away from what the cops did but I have seen younger homeless people die under very strange circumstances that are a result of being unhealthy/homeless.
Yzf916
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12/3/2014 4:13pm
One word. COMPLY. Yes. It's THAT simple.
Yzf916
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12/3/2014 4:15pm
Michael Brown. 12yr old kid. And this guy. ALL would still be alive today had they simply COMPLIED.
IWreckALot
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12/3/2014 4:17pm
Not sure why you're trying to reload for. . . I'm puzzled as to why the officer would have put the guy in a choke hold. Get rid of the victim mentality. You'll get further in life. . .
Skippie
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12/3/2014 4:18pm
Yzf916 wrote:
Michael Brown. 12yr old kid. And this guy. ALL would still be alive today had they simply COMPLIED.
Michael Brown and the kid I agree it was their fault. And this guy resisted but he wasn't trying to pull a gun on the cop. If the cop threw him on the ground, tazed him, punched him whatever I wouldn't car. But to put him in a headlock after he says he can't breathe and then let his dead body just sit there for a few minutes is completely messed up.
IWreckALot
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12/3/2014 4:20pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 4:25pm
Yzf916 wrote:
One word. COMPLY. Yes. It's THAT simple.
Absolutely agree. Don't put the officers in a position to make split second decisions and get confrontational and you will walk away uninjured and breathing. . .

There were quite a few officers in that video though. No reason a good tasing wouldn't have done the trick.
APLMAN99
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12/3/2014 4:29pm
Yzf916 wrote:
Michael Brown. 12yr old kid. And this guy. ALL would still be alive today had they simply COMPLIED.
Just to be clear.....

Do you think that the authorities should have shot and killed all of the guys who showed up to confront them when trying to evict Cliven Bundy off of the land he hadn't paid fees for? The guys who were actually pointing real weapons at law enforcement officers?
MR. X
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12/3/2014 4:58pm
Once again the Justice System worked. The force used was justified and minimal. Death was the result of his medical condition. I'm sorry the Mayor of...
Once again the Justice System worked. The force used was justified and minimal. Death was the result of his medical condition. I'm sorry the Mayor of NYC didn't get his indictment. Then again, I'm sorry the Mayor of NYC has no clue what a choke hold is vs the tactic of "where the head goes the body follows". The Officers took him to the ground. That is normal procedure and it's used to protect the Officers while at the same time using minimal force to gain control of someone not willing to follow orders. If anyone had a choke hold placed on them they would know that within 3 seconds you begin to black out and you don't say, "I can't breath". No Officer wanted to see this man die or seriously injured. Bill Bratton and the Mayor are spineless. It's a blessing that this incident was recorded.
Im guessing that you're aware there is 2 different kinds of choke holds , one cuts blood flow and one restricts the ability to breath.Im guessing the cop used the one that restricted his ability breath.
APLMAN99
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12/3/2014 5:02pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 5:06pm
Once again the Justice System worked. The force used was justified and minimal. Death was the result of his medical condition. I'm sorry the Mayor of...
Once again the Justice System worked. The force used was justified and minimal. Death was the result of his medical condition. I'm sorry the Mayor of NYC didn't get his indictment. Then again, I'm sorry the Mayor of NYC has no clue what a choke hold is vs the tactic of "where the head goes the body follows". The Officers took him to the ground. That is normal procedure and it's used to protect the Officers while at the same time using minimal force to gain control of someone not willing to follow orders. If anyone had a choke hold placed on them they would know that within 3 seconds you begin to black out and you don't say, "I can't breath". No Officer wanted to see this man die or seriously injured. Bill Bratton and the Mayor are spineless. It's a blessing that this incident was recorded.

davis224
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12/3/2014 5:13pm
I think the Ferguson case was handled spot on, and the officer used justifiable force. This just feels so so wrong though. I don't know all the facts, but the fact that it was for something so minor, there was no imminent danger, plenty of other ways to take him down/detain him (why exactly did he need a take down again? Seems to me a ticket and a "please leave the area" would have been enough), and the officer went against policy, just seems like it should be a no brainer. The protests are 100% warranted for this case IMO.
12/3/2014 5:36pm
Pinch UGHH!

I gotta say.....Im on the fence about this one! (so far)......

He was still wrong for resisting arrest...PERIOD! All he had to do is turn around and put his hands behind his back and shut up! Its that easy!

My questions remain with ...did it really need to escalate to tackling him for what... selling his cigarettes? He supposedly just broke up a fight.......not just committed a strong arm robbery! If I was the cops I would'nt have even looked at this guy.

This one is NOT the same as what happened in Ferguson! I dont like the smell of this one!Dry
JW381
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12/3/2014 6:01pm
Seems like a much more appropriate case to be pissed about compared to the ambiguous case in Ferguson. No matter what, it's sad that this dude had to go this way. Troubling times COULD result from more cases like this making their way to national news media.
Team Ideal
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12/3/2014 6:10pm
davis224 wrote:
I think the Ferguson case was handled spot on, and the officer used justifiable force. This just feels so so wrong though. I don't know all...
I think the Ferguson case was handled spot on, and the officer used justifiable force. This just feels so so wrong though. I don't know all the facts, but the fact that it was for something so minor, there was no imminent danger, plenty of other ways to take him down/detain him (why exactly did he need a take down again? Seems to me a ticket and a "please leave the area" would have been enough), and the officer went against policy, just seems like it should be a no brainer. The protests are 100% warranted for this case IMO.
pretty much nailed it IMO. way to much force for the infraction. I'm pretty conservative but this went way to far.
mxb2
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12/3/2014 6:11pm
Yzf916 wrote:
Michael Brown. 12yr old kid. And this guy. ALL would still be alive today had they simply COMPLIED.
yep, all criminal activity... is it really that hard to obey the law?
Crash82
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12/3/2014 6:12pm
The cops screwed up, I'm thinking involuntary manslaughter. Whatever there should have been a trial. That being said don't screw up innocent folks lives, don't block traffic they didn't kill the dude. Don't condemn all the police and White folks for this.
hillbilly
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12/3/2014 7:07pm
I would hate to be a cop right now. The target on their backs just got huge. I figure we are going to see cops getting shot by crazy sniper type in the hoods.

Having to deal with dipshits all the time that wont listen and now have the president say you are a thug basically ,it would be hard to keep going out and trying.
JW381
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12/3/2014 8:09pm
hillbilly wrote:
I would hate to be a cop right now. The target on their backs just got huge. I figure we are going to see cops getting...
I would hate to be a cop right now. The target on their backs just got huge. I figure we are going to see cops getting shot by crazy sniper type in the hoods.

Having to deal with dipshits all the time that wont listen and now have the president say you are a thug basically ,it would be hard to keep going out and trying.
That's along the lines I was thinking when I said things could get nasty. Which wouldn't be good at all. No matter how we all feel about police brutality anarchy isn't something anyone wants. Well, except for anarchists.. Pinch
Skippie
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12/3/2014 9:30pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
Just to be clear..... Do you think that the authorities should have shot and killed all of the guys who showed up to confront them when...
Just to be clear.....

Do you think that the authorities should have shot and killed all of the guys who showed up to confront them when trying to evict Cliven Bundy off of the land he hadn't paid fees for? The guys who were actually pointing real weapons at law enforcement officers?
If they were pointing real weapons at officers they should have been shot on the spot.
P
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12/4/2014 6:31am
Simple fact is that the cops admitted that the choke hold was illegal so that in itself should have gotten the case to trial. It's ALL on video and the guy is clearly heard indicating that he can't breath. They didn't have to kill that guy.


P
mxb2
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12/4/2014 6:51am
If you cant breathe, you cant talk.
Yzf916
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12/4/2014 6:53am
Just a little education on the judicial system for a few of you. The FIRST step of the process is citation/arrest. NOT the time to plead your case or argue with a police. You simply COMPLY. SECOND is your first appearance in court, your ARRAIGNMENT. Where you simply plead guilty or not guilty. AGAIN, NOT the time to plead your case. It is not until the THIRD step in the process, your court date,that a judge hears your side of the story. So PLEASE. To all of you. If you are stopped. Sign your citation. Or follow the officers orders. Even if that order is to place your hands behind your back. If you simply COMPLY. You will live another day to explain your side of the story on the THIRD step of the process. Your COURT date before a judge. If not.....well, stupid is as stupid does. COMPLY. YES. It is THAT simple.
P
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12/4/2014 6:57am
mxb2 wrote:
If you cant breathe, you cant talk.
Tell that to the guy that was choked to death.


P

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